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Thread: War with Iraq

  1. #1
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    War with Iraq

    OK let's switch gears here. We could all debate why or why not we should be invading Iraq until we're blue in the face. Let's stop thinking of the immediate non-threat of Iraq and try to imagine what we will face in a post-Iraqi War era.

    Here's a few guidelines I think most should touch upon since this is most of what the Bush Administration is uing to sell war to this country:

    1. What will happen to Iraq after we've defeated them?

    2. What will be the feeling in the region? Will the US be liked more or less?

    3. What will happen to terrorism? Will it increase or decrease?

    4. Will "pre-emptive" strikes become the norm? How will this affect the much bigger threat and problem we currently have with North Korea?

    5. Will terrorists still be able to get in the country and cause just as much damage, with or without the war?

    6. Will this war plummet other countries in the region into economic limbo?

    7. Where will we find the money to rebuild Iraq?

    8. Who will be given control of Iraq when we leave(if we even do)?


    These are questions that can't be answered just by dropping bombs on them. If you are not ready to answer them then you cannot say we're ready for war. We must have a solution to all. Here's my say on it:

    1. Iraq is torn between 3 people; the Iraqis, the Sunni's, and the Kurds. The only thing that has held the country together is Saddam. If we give them independence we will now have 3 countries to take care of instead of 1. With Bush's tax cuts and increased spending our country is going to see record deficits. We will be taking more money from our own economy and things like paying teachers, low-income housing, welfare programs, social security, etc. will dry up and leave us with relatively nothing. We will be stuck with even more domestic problems than we currently face. Bush will have a brutal defeat in the next election as he's basically shuffled his domestic problems to the side.

    2. Anti-US feeling will spread throughout the region. Countries once willing to join the "war on terrorism" will lose faith in our ability to combat the actual problem; terrorism. Less cooperation will allow terrorist networks to accumulate and grow as they please. CIA operatives will be given the daunting task of tracking the ever-expanding network with an unprecedented number of terrorist threats to follow up. Some of the more serious ones may not get the attention they deserve and may allow atrocities to happen on american soil.

    3. Terrorism will/is growing much faster than ever before. Anti-US sentiment will be a common bond much throughout the Middle East. The entire region will become a breeding ground for US hatred and terrorist activity. Attacks on US tourists and nationals will become common place. The US will advise its people that they are potential targets for terrorists(heh this has already happened but you'll see even more). Elusive figures like Osama Bin Laden will become admired leaders of the anti-US movement(heh this has already happened to).

    With terrorism now a daily problem, americans will know no peace.

    4. Thinking its military power speaks for itself, the US will continue to deny any talks with North Korea. N. Korea will not back down to US threats of military attacks and economic sanctions calling it an act of war. S. Korea, which already protests US incursions in the territory on a daily basis, will agree and side with the North, making the current issues even worse. The US not looking for any diplomatic solutions again will invade North Korea and face one of the bloodiest wars of the next century.

    Nuclear warfare may or may not break out. The North makes it no secret they will do whatever it takes....

    5. Terrorists can still enter the country just as easy. My girlfriend is from Morocco and she tells me all about people that get into this country all the time with forged paperwork. The Mexican boarder has also proved time and time again to be an easy crossing route for terrorists. Make no mistake that we have plenty of terrorists operating within our boarders this very moment.

    6. Many countries have already told us that this war will cause them economic damage that will freeze their development. This is terrible news if you live in Africa.

    7. I have no goddam clue. DO you? It'll come out of medical care and social services. Hey, who needs affordable medical care anyways?

    8. Hopefully someone that caters to the Iraqi people and not US interests.

  2. #2
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    Ok, I'll bite. You put a lot of effort into this thread!

    Here's your questions:

    1. What will happen to Iraq after we've defeated them?

    2. What will be the feeling in the region? Will the US be liked more or less?

    3. What will happen to terrorism? Will it increase or decrease?

    4. Will "pre-emptive" strikes become the norm? How will this affect the much bigger threat and problem we currently have with North Korea?

    5. Will terrorists still be able to get in the country and cause just as much damage, with or without the war?

    6. Will this war plummet other countries in the region into economic limbo?

    7. Where will we find the money to rebuild Iraq?

    8. Who will be given control of Iraq when we leave(if we even do)?


    Here's my answers:

    1) After Saddam's regime is defeated, there is an even money chance a moderate, pro-western government will try to take our offer to help them turn their backward, isolated country into something closer to a modern, oil producing nation.

    2) The feeling in Iran will be one of fear, our intelligence gathering will be greatly increased, and other rogue nations will believe that we may act if they get too bothersome.

    3) I am a realist. I think in the short term, terrorism will increase, only to slowly die out as suicide bombers are not able to be replaced. We will probably take some more hits, but I firmly believe we will take hits regardless, so inaction is not a guaratee of safety.

    4) No. Pre-emptive strikes could have been the norm all along, but are not. Our nation does not pre-emptively strike. Remember that Saddam was on probation, and our already existing security council resolutions allow us to take military action. You may not like the security council resolutions, but they issued it, and now have to live with it. Also, what other country in the world bothers to go to the UN when they want to take military action? Russia sure did not, China did not.

    5) Yes

    6) No, as our presence in the region will deter any bizarre action by other rogue nations in the region.

    7) Iraq can raise all the money it needs by selling oil. We do not need to give them money. We can loan it to them or exchange capital for their oil. That country should be a garden of eden if only Saddam was not looting it.

    8) Unlike other countries in the world, only the US (and Brittain) has the track record of actually giving countries back to the folks after we kick their butts. Look at how we gave Germany back. We returned France to the French. We asked nothing in return. We gave Italy back to the Italians. We gave Japan back to the Japanese. We did not force our way of life on any of them. Look at how the French do not support us today. They are free to do that because of us! What did Russia do? It kept all the countries it occupied after WWII. We are one hell of a country and a leader in how a superpower should behave. We have much to be proud of and the world owes us a great debt. I place my trust in this country any time.
    Last edited by The Tinkerer; 02-07-2003 at 06:01 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Tinkerer,

    Great post. That about sums it up. Thanks.

    Mordeth

  4. #4
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    Respect doesn't come from handouts and "pro-whatever" feelings. Respect is a byproduct of fear. "Rogue nations" must see that the US will not stand around while nations that produce weapons of mass destruction fall through the cracks.
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  5. #5
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    Originally posted by Mordeth
    Tinkerer,

    Great post. That about sums it up. Thanks.

    Mordeth
    Thank you! But what says more about this country than the fact we are able to have this civilized exchange of ideas without fear of secret police or torture chambers. No way are they having any "debate" in Iraq. Saddam got 100% of the vote when he "ran" for "re-election". That about sums it up.
    Last edited by The Tinkerer; 02-07-2003 at 06:03 PM.
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  6. #6
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    Re: War with Iraq

    Originally posted by Snowball 2
    Here's my say on it:

    1. Iraq is torn between 3 people; the Iraqis, the Sunni's, and the Kurds. The only thing that has held the country together is Saddam. If we give them independence we will now have 3 countries to take care of instead of 1. With Bush's tax cuts and increased spending our country is going to see record deficits. We will be taking more money from our own economy and things like paying teachers, low-income housing, welfare programs, social security, etc. will dry up and leave us with relatively nothing. We will be stuck with even more domestic problems than we currently face. Bush will have a brutal defeat in the next election as he's basically shuffled his domestic problems to the side.

    2. Anti-US feeling will spread throughout the region. Countries once willing to join the "war on terrorism" will lose faith in our ability to combat the actual problem; terrorism. Less cooperation will allow terrorist networks to accumulate and grow as they please. CIA operatives will be given the daunting task of tracking the ever-expanding network with an unprecedented number of terrorist threats to follow up. Some of the more serious ones may not get the attention they deserve and may allow atrocities to happen on american soil.

    3. Terrorism will/is growing much faster than ever before. Anti-US sentiment will be a common bond much throughout the Middle East. The entire region will become a breeding ground for US hatred and terrorist activity. Attacks on US tourists and nationals will become common place. The US will advise its people that they are potential targets for terrorists(heh this has already happened but you'll see even more). Elusive figures like Osama Bin Laden will become admired leaders of the anti-US movement(heh this has already happened to).

    With terrorism now a daily problem, americans will know no peace.

    4. Thinking its military power speaks for itself, the US will continue to deny any talks with North Korea. N. Korea will not back down to US threats of military attacks and economic sanctions calling it an act of war. S. Korea, which already protests US incursions in the territory on a daily basis, will agree and side with the North, making the current issues even worse. The US not looking for any diplomatic solutions again will invade North Korea and face one of the bloodiest wars of the next century.

    Nuclear warfare may or may not break out. The North makes it no secret they will do whatever it takes....

    5. Terrorists can still enter the country just as easy. My girlfriend is from Morocco and she tells me all about people that get into this country all the time with forged paperwork. The Mexican boarder has also proved time and time again to be an easy crossing route for terrorists. Make no mistake that we have plenty of terrorists operating within our boarders this very moment.

    6. Many countries have already told us that this war will cause them economic damage that will freeze their development. This is terrible news if you live in Africa.

    7. I have no goddam clue. DO you? It'll come out of medical care and social services. Hey, who needs affordable medical care anyways?

    8. Hopefully someone that caters to the Iraqi people and not US interests.
    1) We will probably put some peacekeeping force there, then russia will get nervous about it. Probably bring us near war arguing over it.

    2) No matter what we do, ever, they will always hate us.

    3) Likely increase.

    4) This isn't a pre-emptive strike, and they won't become the norm.

    On your points:

    1) Deficits do NOT mean taking money from other programs. Look up what 'deficit' means. It is not the same and 'budgeting'. Keynesians agree that deficit spending is one of the primary economic tools to stave off recession/depression. We might not even need to do that if we pulled out of all the stupid 'peacekeeping' missions we're on all over the world. Let em kill each other and save us money at the sametime, yay!

    2) As I count there has been only 1 country willing to join us on the "war against terrorism". I haven't seen any other coutry do anything about it, so i'm not too concerned if they pull out and the USA goes it alone.

    3) Spot on. Until the people become so pissed that they scream for the politicians to level the whole place. Terrorist attacks gain us sympathy so by that point the intnl community shouldnt be too pissed when we destroy the whole area and give it to Israel (in a few hundred years when the rads wear off)

    4) Could go either way. I support pulling out of the whole area.

    6) Yeah, right. I guess all those unemployed are gonna become MORE unemployed? Or you mean they might have to fire some of the 5 year olds breaking their back for 3 pennies a day? Damn. Luckily thats one of the places we plan to still aid.

    7) Plese compare our medical system to, well, anywhere else. Ours comes out clearly on top.

    8) As an american, I have a certain sympathy for USA intrests. Feel free to move to Iraq and serve humanitarian intrests there. Good luck.

    Everyone has an opinion, and NOONE GIVES A DAMN ABOUT YOURS! Thank you for participating

    PS.... Respect is a by-product of fear?

    EDIT: cleaned up some spelling
    Last edited by mostholycerebus; 02-07-2003 at 06:10 PM.

  7. #7
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    Re: Re: War with Iraq

    Originally posted by mostholycerebus
    Everyone has an opinion, and NOONE GIVES A DAMN ABOUT YOURS! Thank you for participating
    EDIT: cleaned up some spelling
    Sounds like the epidemy of communism.
    I live by cost/benefit. You call me cheap but I think of myself as thrifty.

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  8. #8
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    It seems inevitible Mr Anderson.

    But it's Sadamm's call.
    "I despise people who go to the gutter on either the right or the left and hurl rocks at those in the center." - Dwight D. Eisenhower



  9. #9
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    It's funny how everyone assumes that saddam has all these weapons, but they haven't even entertained the possibility that he, infact, did destroy them. LoL
    I live by cost/benefit. You call me cheap but I think of myself as thrifty.

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  10. #10
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    Respect doesn't come from handouts and "pro-whatever" feelings. Respect is a byproduct of fear. "Rogue nations" must see that the US will not stand around while nations that produce weapons of mass destruction fall through the cracks.
    ROFL! You do realize this is why terrorists do what they do? They keep a population in fear so, in theory, repect for their cause is eventually birthed and they get what they want. Unfortunatly respect rooted from fear is *NOT* real respect. Its is a burning hatred and desire to destroy the source of fear behind a mask of pretend respect.

    9/11 drove fear into America, do you respect the terrorists now? bah!

    Do you think slaves respected their masters?

    Does respect mean that given the opertunity you would kill the person you respect without remorse?

    The Prince by Machiavelli would be a good read...
    Last edited by Eggs; 02-07-2003 at 07:59 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Originally posted by freezepc
    It's funny how everyone assumes that saddam has all these weapons, but they haven't even entertained the possibility that he, infact, did destroy them. LoL
    Well, we know for a fact that he has had them. Because we have seen them before. He has not produced evidence of their destruction, so based on his previous murderous history it is safe to assume he is hiding them. In fact, it is a sure thing. Absence of evidence, in this case, is evidence.

    Why do you want so badly to support this man? Have you seen his resume? Or are you keenly blind to his murderous past? Strange...

    Mordeth

  12. #12
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    this is not a rogue nation we are dealing with, this is a rogue dictator. saddam is the mother of all terrorist, and he has a death wish. he knows his days are numbered and he wants to go out with as big a bang as he can muster. he controls his army with fear, and as long as he controls it, he controls iraq. the people of iraq are living on bread and water while he lives like a king. these people care less for him than we do, but they are trapped, and will stay trapped untill we go in and free them. and the more we squeeze puss like him to the surface, the less places there will be for other scum like him to hide. a few decades ago, this scum was afraid to show their faces in the light of day. but we got soft in the past few years and gave this cancer the space to grow. and now it's time to cut it out. we blew it the last time we were there. the iraqi army couldn't run to us fast enough to surrender, but we didn't finish it. now we have to. i just read where saddam has taking family members of his army and put them in "protective custody", so his troops won't be so quick to surrender this time. but you mark my words, they won't wait for the first shots to be fired before they surrender, they will as soon as they hear the tank engines fire up!

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