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  1. #1
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    Talking dual MP = hyperthreading?

    is it? cuz hyperthreading seems like a 2 in 1 thing....

  2. #2
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    yes ideally dual users should be able to somewhat take advantage of the hyperthreading support
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  3. #3
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    I'd have to say that would be questionable at best. Hyperthreading isn't the same thing as SMP and both may be coded differently. From what little I understand about hyperthreading, it addresses only one physical cpu i/o where SMP addresses two or more physical CPU i/o's.

    I just don't know enough about hyperthreading to say for sure, but I highly doubt Intel would have been that careless as to allow us AMD'ers to get anything of a boost off their technological goodies.
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  4. #4
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    I highly doubt Intel would have been that careless as to allow us AMD'ers to get anything of a boost off their technological goodies.
    go to http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html and search for patent 5,944,816
    AMD has patent which extremly resembles hyperthreading
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  5. #5
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    Hyperthreading (as I understand it) is emulating 2 cpu's, using a single cpu. This is possible since there was extra real estate available in certain P4 cpu's...so they built in some routines that could run multiple threads simultaneously with the extra capacity.

    We have 2 true processors. While it's possible that EACH processor might be somewhat capable of running a couple threads under some circumstances, is this not likely to be a very minor improvement compared to what the dual processors themself yield? The reviews I've seen suggest that true Hyperthreading with the 3.06 P4 only gives about a 10% improvement at best.

  6. #6
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    As I said, we will see the normal SMP performance gains/losses but hyperthreading support won't do squat for current AMD SMP rigs I bet.

    The Patent you refer to isn't a technology we have available yet, period. It's a hardware function that we may get to play with when Hammer comes out and goes through a few revisions where both CPU and chipsets have actual support for HT (or whatever AMD passes for HT) built in.
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  7. #7
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    Originally posted by moshpit
    As I said, we will see the normal SMP performance gains/losses but hyperthreading support won't do squat for current AMD SMP rigs I bet.
    I just want to clarify that any gain is relative to a single processor machine. Hyperthreading emulates two cpus on a single cpu, a dual processor machine already has those.

    As far as I know, the only way a specific piece of software can take advantage of hyperthreading is for it to be a multi-threaded app (written for SMP!).

    I have seen articles on multiple core processors, so you could buy a single chip with 2 or 4 cpus built in. The wave of the future?

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  8. #8
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    Hyperthread enabled applications will not benefit a normal single athlon machine, however hyperthread applications will see a huge boost on athlon SMP machines. As far as the application is concerned, it is running on a dual system and sends it's threads to whichever processor is available, on a hyperthreaded CPU in this example the processors are virtual, in the case of true SMP the processors are real and benefit more from hyperthreading enabled apps. Also one great boon from inhell introducing hyperthreading to the mainstream has been drivers and software that is SMP capable.

  9. #9
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    Wow, I stand corrected. Anyone know where to find a list of Hyper-threaded apps without resorting to actually looking on Inhell's site? I have a real aversion to actually opening that site in my browser while a "No Intel Inside" sticker sits on my PC
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  10. #10
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    Ok, I sucked it up and went to Inhell's site and found the list. I gotta say that this list is weak for gamers (although SMP rigs "arn't for gamers"). Here's what I found:

    EverQuest (this gets a speed boost from SMP?)

    Incoming Forces

    MotoRacer 3

    Nascar 2002

    Neverwinter Nights (they're kidding, right?)

    No One Lives Forever 2 (gotta get it and see for myself)

    Quake III (yeah, if your savy enough to know r_smp 1 AND have an unpatched load of Quake3, which means no online play, as later patches kill AMD SMP support - although when works, unbelievably fast)

    Syberia (never heard of...)

    Unreal Tournament 2003 (really? COOL!!!)

    Warcraft III Reign of Chaos (got bored with this one quicker then usual, so must have been SMP speed boosted )

    Ok, now this, admittedly, is a huge list compared to just a couple years ago, as far as SMP support goes. But I really haven't heard ANYBODY rave about SMP/HT speed boosts out of the majority of this list (excluding massive Quake 3 frame rate leaps). I have heard of some SMP/HT support in both NOLF2 and UT2K3, but niether gets much more then 10-15% increase.

    Also, admittedly, games probably are not the best group of software to look at in answer to the original question. But, I was just curious.
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  11. #11
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    Actually, ANYTHING written for Hyperthreading will gain MORE on any real dual machines because P4s only have so many logical execution units.

    Mmm, lets see, i think P4 has 7 or 8 units, split between load/store, FPU/SSE2 and Int/logic(ok so neither my description nor my naming use isnt the best), while Athlon has 9, 3 each of the above types.
    Any program running uses one or several of each type all the time, HT allows those units not used, to be used by a second thread without the need to wait for the first to finish execution.
    However, if at any time the 2 or more threads running are very intensive on the same type of units, then you can expect a major reduction in performance because the P4 has a very limited amount of some unit types(ie only 2 of at least one kind of execution units).
    With a true dually, you will rarely run into that kind queing up, because you always have 2 FULL sets of units of all types.

    Also, thanks to Athlon and the up coming K8 have more execution units, lets hope AMD includes HT or similar, since AMDs cores will benefit more due the better balance of execution units.

    And, AMD implementing HT shouldnt be a problem because it also, should go under the crosslicensing deal AMD and Intel entered Jan 1, allowing AMD to use SSE2 for one thing(which was also why i never expected K8 to be released before that date anyway).

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