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Thread: A Gentoo Vent

  1. #31
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    Originally posted by 64Bit on 11-23-2003 at 11:34 PM
    until they change their install it will Never be as popular as Mandrake and Redhat.
    If they change their install method, it won't be Gentoo anymore. Besides, why should they want to be another Mandrake or Red Hat?

    I would rather do other things with my life then spend 3 hours EMERGING Mozilla so I can have a web browers to use.
    Your computer can emerge Mozilla and other sofware without you staring at the screen all the time. You can go on doing "other things", you can even use Gentoo Linux while it's running an emerge process in the background.

  2. #32
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    Originally posted by 64Bit on 11-23-2003 at 09:34 PM

    Dont get me wrong guys I love Gentoo it is pretty cool, but until they change their install it will Never be as popular as Mandrake and Redhat.
    I think Gentoo has gained a lot of popularity BECAUSE of it's long, drawn out install process.

    There are a boatload of "easy to install" distros out there. Mandrake, Redhat, SUSE, and all the other smaller ones I won't even list. If you want an easy install, you have lots of choices. Gentoo really has nothing to gain by trying to "out-easy" those already excellent distributions.

    But, if you want a detailed, involved install that gives you complete control, your choices are far, far fewer. I think Gentoo has gained popularity because many people learn linux on Mandrake and Redhat, and then look for something more challenging, and more customizable. They're willing to give up "easy" to gain control, but they're not quite ready to build from scratch. That's where Gentoo comes in, perfectly.

    The speed issue is too subjective to argue. It'll be different on different hardware, and depend on what optimizations are used, as well as what is being run. For what it's worth, my original install of Gentoo was slower than my previous Mandrake 9.1 install. My second install of Gentoo was much, much faster and snappier than Mandrake. Too many variables to claim one distro is "faster" than the other.
    Last edited by jase71; 11-24-2003 at 08:54 AM.
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  3. #33
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    Originally posted by markkuk on 11-24-2003 at 05:20 AM
    If they change their install method, it won't be Gentoo anymore. Besides, why should they want to be another Mandrake or Red Hat?

    Why Because Redhat is the number one WORLD Distro out of ANY other distros out there. Thats why??

    Your computer can emerge Mozilla and other sofware without you staring at the screen all the time. You can go on doing "other things", you can even use Gentoo Linux while it's running an emerge process in the background.
    So whoopee and it uses 55% of the cpu while doing emerge I know I checked. That gives you alot of power, LOL , to do what check your email.

    Please this is just pointless!

    Question do you guys get paid from Gentoo to say its better , because I love it and think its a good Distro, but I dont think its ANY better than ANY other linux Distro out there, with maybe an exception or two.

  4. #34
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    Originally posted by jase71 on 11-24-2003 at 08:49 AM
    I think Gentoo has gained a lot of popularity BECAUSE of it's long, drawn out install process.

    So what are you saying, that in order to be a tree lover you have to tie yourself to a tree for atleast one week. Please. I never said it was bad, I just dont like when Gentoo users push it on newbs thats a bad way to turn off for coming linux users. No one wants to wait. Its the world we live in. And honestly Gentoo isnt worth the wait. Its all HYPE!

    The speed issue is too subjective to argue. It'll be different on different hardware, and depend on what optimizations are used, as well as what is being run. For what it's worth, my original install of Gentoo was slower than my previous Mandrake 9.1 install. My second install of Gentoo was much, much faster and snappier than Mandrake. Too many variables to claim one distro is "faster" than the other.
    Please I will say that my system runs with the top average of users on here. So I dont think there is a speed issue on my end.
    I think Gentoo is faster than Mandrake 9.1 but NOT of 9.2.

    Its also SLOWER than SGI XFS REDHAT 9.0, also I have seen Slackware versions that are just as fast as Gentoo if not faster.

    I think what happens is when you guys spend a week of installing everything and configing or should I say "emerging" everything your so use to waiting for hours and days that when you actually get to use the Desktop it seems fast as hell.

    Its like riding in a car for days at 25 miles per hour and then jumping in one doing 100. Be differance. LOL

    One last thing, the EMERGE for Gentoo doesnt have anything to offer over any other RPM out there. RPMS are quicker and just as easy to install as Emerge is to Gentoo. So please enough of the hype guys. It isnt all that.

    Peace.

  5. #35
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    Originally posted by 64Bit on 11-25-2003 at 05:32 AM
    Please I will say that my system runs with the top average of users on here. So I dont think there is a speed issue on my end.
    I think Gentoo is faster than Mandrake 9.1 but NOT of 9.2.

    Its also SLOWER than SGI XFS REDHAT 9.0, also I have seen Slackware versions that are just as fast as Gentoo if not faster.
    Arguing that one distro is faster than another is a little like arguing whether a Porsche is faster than a Ferrari. Which Porsche? Which Ferrari? Which driver? Which track? It depends on too many other things to make a blanket statement.

    For example, in my case, Gentoo was both faster AND slower than Mandrake 9.1. What mattered wasn't so much the distro, but how it was configured. After all, they're all based on the same foundation of open source code. They're both Linux.

    I'm curious what hardware you had Gentoo installed on... and more importantly, what CFLAGS and USE flags you used when you installed and compiled it. Your choices with those flags could have a huge impact on the performance you ended up seeing. I'd really be curious what flags you used. And what stage you used for your install.


    One last thing, the EMERGE for Gentoo doesnt have anything to offer over any other RPM out there. RPMS are quicker and just as easy to install as Emerge is to Gentoo. So please enough of the hype guys. It isnt all that.

    Emerge has a few things to offer over a basic RPM.

    For one thing, emerge will caculate and install the necessary dependencies for you, rather than leaving you in "dependency hell". URPMI will do that for you as well in Mandrake if you set it up correctly, but RPMs by themselves won't.

    Emerge also lets you optimize your binaries for your specific hardware. Got a P4, or AthlonXP? You can optimize your programs to use the specific features of those chips (like SSE, SSE2, 3dnow, etc..) to squeeze that last tiny bit of performance out of it. RPMs tend to be generically compiled to run on a broad range of hardware. Nice and safe, but not optimized much. For example, Mandrake is compiled to be optimized for Pentium-class chips. But it doesn't take specific advantage of many optmizations available in P3, P4, Athlon, or AthlonXP chips. Emerge CAN take advantage of those cpu improvements because it's actually compiling the source (but you do need to set your USE flags and CFLAGS properly to do that).

    Even on Mandrake, you'll often get better performance from your apps if you download the source code and compile it yourself, rather than using an RPM. RPMs are "one size fits all", usually compiled to work on a broad range of machines, but not to take advantage of your specific hardware or preferences. Compiling yourself lets you do that. Of course, compiling takes time, just like emerge.

    That's all emerge really does is download the source code and compile it for you. You can do the same thing in Mandrake, download and install from source. Just not quite as easily as you can with emerge.

    What RPMs give up in optimization, they give back in ease of use. They're easy. They're quick. They're simple. That's all a lot of people want.

    Or, you can use RPMs in Gentoo if you want, too. I have no idea why you WOULD want to, after compiling your entire system from source. But you CAN, I suppose. Just download and install a package manager.

    Emerge isn't better than RPM. RPM isn't better than emerge. They're just different. One focuses on optimization, one focuses on being easy to use.

    Same thing can be said for Gentoo and Mandrake in general. Both are good. They're my two favorite distros. But they're intended for different types of users. Gentoo is more customizable, more optimizable, and much more work to install. Mandrake is easier to use, and faster to install, but not as "tweaked" as Gentoo.

    Heck, I used Mandrake for two years, 8.2, 9.0, and 9.1 before I recently switched over to Gentoo. I LIKE Mandrake. I know Mandrake fairly well. And Mandrake is what I recommend to most people who want to try out Linux. Gentoo was just a good "next step" when I was looking for something a little more flexible, and for something that would force me to learn a little more.
    Last edited by jase71; 11-25-2003 at 03:31 PM.
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  6. #36
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    Originally posted by 64Bit on 11-25-2003 at 12:32 AM
    So please enough of the hype guys. It isnt all that.
    I don't think explaining what we like about a particular distro is hype. Obviously we like Gentoo, ergo we're not going to say "Gent00 sux0r". When the inevitable "which distro?" comes up, if I recommend Gentoo, I am always careful to point out the drawbacks--lengthy and potentially difficult install, foremost--as well as the strongpoints--package management, optimization, foremost. Invariably, someone will have already recommended Mandrake/Red Hat/Fedora/SuSE, so I don't feel like I need to re-cover that ground. Everyone has their own preference, and I don't think it's a problem for Gentoo users to crow about what they obviously enjoy.
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  7. #37
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    I chose Gentoo so I would be forced to learn more about linux. and I have. I've learned a ton. I can't say that it's been easy, and I never wanted easy. More than anything else I just wanted help to figure out what was going on.

    Now that I have Gentoo running, I have to say that I like it a lot. It's really a nice distro once you get it running. And i have to say as hard as it is, it's not that hard. Are there better distro's out there? depends on what you want. I think arguing over what distro's the best is just silly. Okay. That's the end of my rambling....
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  8. #38
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    Hi All,

    I've been away from the forums for a while, but still using gentoo.

    Here is why *I* think it's better than other distros:

    I've fought through package dependencies using RPM, and I've tried using debian, but the single best package management I have ever seen or used is gentoo.

    When with a single command I can install XFree and the desktop of my choice without caring what dependencies are involved I'm happy. And with Gentoo, I can do just that. It was package management that kept me moving from distribution to distribution, but I've stopped moving now.

    Just my two cents,

    Thanks,
    Lyric
    Linux user number 262929

  9. #39
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    Ill second that

    Package management through portage on gentoo is just brill. as for the complaints about compiling time the code is optimised specifically for one's own hardware so its well worth the wait. Ive been with Gentoo for a good few months now and I can see no reason to move.

    Chris

  10. #40
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    I've tried a lot of distros (with a damn tall burned-cd spindle to prove it), and finally I settled on Gentoo for most of the reasons already mentioned: control, speed, flexibility, the portage system is sweet. etc etc....

    anyways, the most rewarding thing about gentoo I've found is the performance edge. I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to getting everything I can out of my system, and after a lot of reading and optimising, compiling, etc... my sys benchmarks ut2003 22% faster in Gentoo than my ArchLinux partition, and 28% faster than my RedHat partition. Plus the gentoo forums are awesome. This weekend I'm getting rid of everything but gentoo on my system.

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  11. #41
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    Good move

    Spoken like a true Gentooite

  12. #42
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    It boils down to the user, what use or need they have and intend to use the OS of choice for.
    If your using it for multimedia, internet, basically a desktop user and do no programming, CAD, administrator or even a teacher learning various flavors of linux and etc. Then the quote unquote "challenging" distributions would be pointless.
    Because in part, I do see his/her point. I sure don't ever want or intend to spend anymore time performing tasks on my PC than whats essentially neccessary.
    To each their own, there will always be folks that like, for whatever reason/s, the more complex linux distributions. For customization, speed, management, control...whatever. I most certainly don't think less of anyone, as to why they choose this distribution over the next. I'm just glad they choose linux, whether its Suse, Mandrake, Redhat or Gentoo. Were all in this thing together.

    For learning sakes, if your looking to be mentally challenged or stimulate braincells, learn a foreign language or find a solution to some really advanced algebraic equations.
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  13. #43
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    Originally posted by Gil-galad on 11-25-2003 at 01:47 PM
    I don't think explaining what we like about a particular distro is hype. Obviously we like Gentoo, ergo we're not going to say "Gent00 sux0r". When the inevitable "which distro?" comes up, if I recommend Gentoo, I am always careful to point out the drawbacks--lengthy and potentially difficult install, foremost--as well as the strongpoints--package management, optimization, foremost. Invariably, someone will have already recommended Mandrake/Red Hat/Fedora/SuSE, so I don't feel like I need to re-cover that ground. Everyone has their own preference, and I don't think it's a problem for Gentoo users to crow about what they obviously enjoy.
    If you go back an re-read the post you will see where I clearly stated that I LOVE GENTOO, I just think anyone saying that a newbie should try Gentoo first is SO WRONG. Thats all I am saying.

    Actually I dont really think there is a BAD LINUX distro out there.

    But thats my own 2 cents.

    Peace.

  14. #44
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    Cool

    Originally posted by fuzzyuu on 11-25-2003 at 02:34 PM
    I chose Gentoo so I would be forced to learn more about linux. and I have. I've learned a ton. I can't say that it's been easy, and I never wanted easy. More than anything else I just wanted help to figure out what was going on.

    Now that I have Gentoo running, I have to say that I like it a lot. It's really a nice distro once you get it running. And i have to say as hard as it is, it's not that hard. Are there better distro's out there? depends on what you want. I think arguing over what distro's the best is just silly. Okay. That's the end of my rambling....
    Fuzzyuu , I am no linux newb either. I think Gentoo is great once you get it going. But I do think its vastly overrated. Its not any faster than most linux distros out there. Thats all I am saying.

  15. #45
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    what would be so bad about throwing a dedicated noob into Gentoo? I mean, you can't throw grandma. But for someone who wants to learn what linux is all about, Gentoo in an awesome choice. It forces you to learn more about what's going on.
    Last edited by fuzzyuu; 12-08-2003 at 07:31 PM.
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