1. #24256
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Harley-Davidson sells a lot of motorcylces in China these days. All Harley-Davidsons are made in America. Why can't these Jeeps for China be made in America?

    In fact, this is something the UAW should be concerned about. I guess Obama getting reelected was more important to them than having those 100,000 Jeeps for China made in America by American labor.

  2. #24257
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Keven View Post
    Harley-Davidson sells a lot of motorcylces in China these days. All Harley-Davidsons are made in America. Why can't these Jeeps for China be made in America?

    In fact, this is something the UAW should be concerned about. I guess Obama getting reelected was more important to them than having those 100,000 Jeeps for China made in America by American labor.
    Motorcycles are cheaper to ship?

    To be honest, I really don't know why exactly Jeeps for China can't be made here but here would be my best guesses.

    First and foremost the Plant is probably at or near capacity as the Jeep Wrangler is a popular vehicle. Not to mention that the Chinese Jeep will likely be very different than the American one for a variety of reasons. Foreign versions of Domestic brands are often very different and at times bear almost no resemblance to their American counterpart and it usually just makes more sense just to have a plant making cars for China in China. The American auto makers have had plants manufacturing vehicles for overseas markets for a long time. The Chevy S10 is still being made in Brazil. Not to mention that automakers often use other countries as test markets to see how well new car models will do when they bring them here. Just look at 2009 Ford Focus.

    Another thing is time it takes to get products to and from China. It wouldn't make any more sense to build Jeeps in Mexico (where labor is also cheap) and ship them to China. This is a big reason why 99% of the cars we buy come from U.S. Canada, and Mexico.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  3. #24258
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinC939 View Post
    Keep it real, you know what Romney meant, I know what he meant, and BD24 knows what he meant.
    I think I do know what he meant and it isn't what you and BD interpreted it to mean. Of course, when you can't argue with what he said, you try to argue about what you think he meant. This is what we call spin. PolitiFact calling his true statement the "lie of the year"... which is what we're talking about here. It should involve a bit more truth serum than a liberal's psycho babble of what was meant but not said.

    Jeeps are going to be built in China. Obama said it ain't so. It is. You say Romney lied. Jeez.
    Last edited by Dutchcedar; 01-20-2013 at 10:22 PM.

  4. #24259
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinC939 View Post
    Motorcycles are cheaper to ship?

    To be honest, I really don't know why exactly Jeeps for China can't be made here but here would be my best guesses.

    First and foremost the Plant is probably at or near capacity as the Jeep Wrangler is a popular vehicle. Not to mention that the Chinese Jeep will likely be very different than the American one for a variety of reasons. Foreign versions of Domestic brands are often very different and at times bear almost no resemblance to their American counterpart and it usually just makes more sense just to have a plant making cars for China in China. The American auto makers have had plants manufacturing vehicles for overseas markets for a long time. The Chevy S10 is still being made in Brazil. Not to mention that automakers often use other countries as test markets to see how well new car models will do when they bring them here. Just look at 2009 Ford Focus.

    Another thing is time it takes to get products to and from China. It wouldn't make any more sense to build Jeeps in Mexico (where labor is also cheap) and ship them to China. This is a big reason why 99% of the cars we buy come from U.S. Canada, and Mexico.
    When the Italians, who now own Chrysler and Jeep, begin importing Jeeps from China, please post your predictions here.

    The latest rumblings are that some Jeep models will no longer be made in the US, but will indeed be made in China. The Patriot is one of 'em. Personally, I think its a crappy SUV. But, when people here want them and the only production line is in China, do you really think the Italians will start a new production line here?

    Look, I don't care one way or the other. We have four vehicles, two are Chevys and one's a Jeep. We'll not replace them with other GM or Jeep products. That's my input to the mess.

    Screw 'em.

    It sounds like you've become a defender of the Italian car maker because you want Romney to be proven wrong.

  5. #24260
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    I think I do know what he meant and it isn't what you and BD interpreted it to mean. Of course, when you can't argue with what he said, you try to argue about what you think he meant. This is what we call spin.
    Except you and I both know exactly what he meant, but only one of us is being honest about it

    Romney said that to give people the impression that Chrysler would move jobs overseas from the United States.

    Such is evident in this clip



    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  6. #24261
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    When the Italians, who now own Chrysler and Jeep, begin importing Jeeps from China, please post your predictions here.

    The latest rumblings are that some Jeep models will no longer be made in the US, but will indeed be made in China. The Patriot is one of 'em. Personally, I think its a crappy SUV. But, when people here want them and the only production line is in China, do you really think the Italians will start a new production line here?

    Look, I don't care one way or the other. We have four vehicles, two are Chevys and one's a Jeep. We'll not replace them with other GM or Jeep products. That's my input to the mess.

    Screw 'em.

    It sounds like you've become a defender of the Italian car maker because you want Romney to be proven wrong.
    No, Im just telling you how the auto industry works.
    What I'm saying is that it most certainly is nothing new for automakers to manufacture brands for foreign markets in their respective countries. It's been going on for many many years since before the bailouts.

    What they are not doing is building vehicles in China for the Unites states which is what Romney was implying.

    Personally, I wouldn't touch a Chrysler products with a 10 foot pole and I know I've said that here plenty of times. And that also comes from my knowledge of the auto industry.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  7. #24262
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinC939 View Post
    No, Im just telling you how the auto industry works.
    What I'm saying is that it most certainly is nothing new for automakers to manufacture brands for foreign markets in their respective countries. It's been going on for many many years since before the bailouts.
    You're right, Justin, it is and was very common.

    I am a big aviation fan, follow a lot of aerospace news,and I know for a matter of fact that whenever Airbus or Boeing hopes to score a big deal with the Chinese state airlines, they have to build a little parts factory in China to sweeten the deal. So, China will order 100 Boeings and Boeing will make the lugnuts for the planes in China.

    Thing is, whenever Boeing threw some parts production to China to keep the Chinese happy before a big order, the machinist union at Boeing bitched and complained that Boeing was moving jobs to China, even though they were just building lug nuts for Boeings that were going to be used by Chinese airlines.

    So, why didn't Big Labor complain about this Chrysler Jeep plant?

    I guess Obama getting reelected was more important to them then having union brothers employed.

  8. #24263
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinC939 View Post
    Motorcycles are cheaper to ship?

    To be honest, I really don't know why exactly Jeeps for China can't be made here but here would be my best guesses.

    First and foremost the Plant is probably at or near capacity as the Jeep Wrangler is a popular vehicle. Not to mention that the Chinese Jeep will likely be very different than the American one for a variety of reasons. Foreign versions of Domestic brands are often very different and at times bear almost no resemblance to their American counterpart and it usually just makes more sense just to have a plant making cars for China in China. The American auto makers have had plants manufacturing vehicles for overseas markets for a long time. The Chevy S10 is still being made in Brazil. Not to mention that automakers often use other countries as test markets to see how well new car models will do when they bring them here. Just look at 2009 Ford Focus.

    Another thing is time it takes to get products to and from China. It wouldn't make any more sense to build Jeeps in Mexico (where labor is also cheap) and ship them to China. This is a big reason why 99% of the cars we buy come from U.S. Canada, and Mexico.
    While most of this may be true, the biggest reason is $labor$. I've see it where I work now - I have to recreate drawings in the metric system to send to our sister plants in Mexico & China.

    I'll never buy the CEO saying the cost of shipping is too great to build the Jeeps here and send to China...otherwise we wouldn't see 1000's of Wal*Marts full of goods from across the pacific. How could they afford to send goods here and we can't afford to send them back?
    Nuke em'.

  9. #24264
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Keven View Post
    You're right, Justin, it is and was very common.

    I am a big aviation fan, follow a lot of aerospace news,and I know for a matter of fact that whenever Airbus or Boeing hopes to score a big deal with the Chinese state airlines, they have to build a little parts factory in China to sweeten the deal. So, China will order 100 Boeings and Boeing will make the lugnuts for the planes in China.

    Thing is, whenever Boeing threw some parts production to China to keep the Chinese happy before a big order, the machinist union at Boeing bitched and complained that Boeing was moving jobs to China, even though they were just building lug nuts for Boeings that were going to be used by Chinese airlines.

    So, why didn't Big Labor complain about this Chrysler Jeep plant?

    I guess Obama getting reelected was more important to them then having union brothers employed.
    Could have been, but I think it's because they know it's an argument they'll never win. The Ford Mondeo is the European Ford Fusion. Not hearing any outrage over that being built in Belgium.The Pontiac GTO and G8 were built in Austrailia by Holden in small volumes in which GM used that same platform as the Pontiac G8 (developed by Holden) to build the current Chevy Camaro. I think Holden also developed the Delta platform for the Chevy Cruz.
    The fact is manufacturing is highly globalized. Cheap labor and low regulations certainly has something to do with this, but it's not the single driving force. Canada, Germany and Japan all have economies that are largely driven by manufacturing. Labor isn't cheap in any of these countries and I know Japan has very strict safety regulations. I think a shortage of skilled labor could very well be a big part of this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nate View Post
    While most of this may be true, the biggest reason is $labor$. I've see it where I work now - I have to recreate drawings in the metric system to send to our sister plants in Mexico & China.


    I'll never buy the CEO saying the cost of shipping is too great to build the Jeeps here and send to China...otherwise we wouldn't see 1000's of Wal*Marts full of goods from across the pacific. How could they afford to send goods here and we can't afford to send them back?
    But shipping vehicles is an entirely different story than shipping cheap ink jet printers. One big difference is we can afford to lose a few ink jet printers in transit. One thing that I've been told that can impact the cost effectiveness of shipping products overseas is the airspace. Meaning how much product can be crammed in one shipping container thus making the best use of space as humanly possible. You can't apply this to shipping vehicles. They have to be well restrained and spaced apart so they don't hit each other while the ship sways in turbulent waters. This is why vehicles made overseas often come at a high premium. And the same goes for cars bult here and shipped overseas. IIRC I think a Chevy Camaro sells in the UK for about 60,000 of our dollars if converted to pounds/euros. Don't know how much Yuan that would be, but do you the the Chinese middle(ish) class can afford that kind of price?


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  10. #24265
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    ^^Good insight. Another consideration is the Jeep built for Chinese consumption is no doubt far different than what is built here. I imagine assembly lines are easier to recreate(in China) than alter the existing lines here. Obviously customized type parts are in the end product so the same situation exists.

  11. #24266
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day


  12. #24267
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinC939 View Post
    IIRC I think a Chevy Camaro sells in the UK for about 60,000 of our dollars if converted to pounds/euros. Don't know how much Yuan that would be, but do you the the Chinese middle(ish) class can afford that kind of price?
    That has more to do with their outrageous taxes than shipping though. Even Kia's in England cost a LOT more than they do here in the US due to whatever taxes they tack on to them. As far as where vehicles are made now, as you say American companies building vehicles in other countries have been going on for a long time. The thing that's different this time with Jeep though is that Crapsler is really no longer an American company. It seems we paid a lot of money to bail them out only to have the Italians and Fiat of all people come in and take them over.

    If you want to buy an "American" car nowadays, the best way to do it is check the parts content list. The fact that a Toyota Avalon is more American made than a Chevy Corvette is proof of just how global the car market is anymore. I used to have a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Under the hood there were parts made in Japan, Germany, and Mexico. These were just the ones I could see standing from the front looking in. My mom bought a Subaru a couple of years ago and everything I could find was made in the US. I think the only parts of that car made in Japan are the drivetrain, and I'm not even sure if all of that is.

  13. #24268
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Inauguration Day

  14. #24269
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Inauguration Day
    Look at the bright side, tucker... he's halfway gone.

  15. #24270
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    Look at the bright side, tucker... he's halfway gone.
    Just wait until he suggests we start a "sensible and honest" discussion about repealing the 22nd Amendment, calling it "the right thing to do" and a "common sense step".

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