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  1. #14941
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan View Post
    Did I say that? There's a bit of a difference between "having an effect" and "destroying the ecosystem", don't you think? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your concern but the environmental negatives of aeolian power production are far outweighed by the negatives of fossil fuel power production. Economically? That's another story at the moment.
    Perhaps a bit overstated when compared to the effects of fossil fuel. But Iíve seen what wind farms can do to plant life and wildlife in a fragile desert environment.

  2. #14942
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal View Post
    I know. I know man.
    Please donít take my comment as belittling or negative it wasnít meant to be.

    It was just a passing frivolous observation from an insiderÖ

  3. #14943
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Please donít take my comment as belittling or negative it wasnít meant to be.

    It was just a passing frivolous observation from an insiderÖ
    I know that. And Im hardly an expert based on what some friends have been thru and how they behave.
    I understand.

  4. #14944
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra_nVidia View Post
    I saw that earlier today. Those ads are awesome.

    I'm glad to see some ads for non-presidential politicans. The way presidential candidates campaign you'd think you guys were electing a world dictator for 4 years
    Fixed
    Nuke em'.

  5. #14945
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Having seen the wind turbines up close and even being assembled, especially considering the footprint they make on a large landscape and the eco-systems they disturb, its been hard for me to understand how they can be seen as acceptable by environmentalists while drilling in ANWR is seen as a terrible thing.

  6. #14946
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Perhaps a bit overstated when compared to the effects of fossil fuel. But I’ve seen what wind farms can do to plant life and wildlife in a fragile desert environment.
    Such as? Most creatures are out of the reach of the blades while the masts pose no threat once erected. Only birds and bats are typically affected. That, and people's views of the landscape.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    Having seen the wind turbines up close and even being assembled, especially considering the footprint they make on a large landscape and the eco-systems they disturb, its been hard for me to understand how they can be seen as acceptable by environmentalists while drilling in ANWR is seen as a terrible thing.
    Wind turbines don't produce oil spills, require the building of refineries, pipelines, permanent roads, or ships like the Exxon Valdez, and so on and so forth. The erection of a wind turbine is a one time thing, with only the footprint of the mast causing long-term effects on the ground surface. Oil extraction is another creature entirely. That's like comparing an apple to a potato, and even that doesn't do it justice.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  7. #14947
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    ^^^ The argument about using oil, refining it, etc., has nothing to do with drilling ANWR... its going to be transported and refined no matter where its taken from. ANWR doesn't require permanent roads. The Valdez thing... that's a logical argument... and maybe the pipeline argument has merit too, but its little different than one you pose in defense of wind turbines: with only the footprint of the mast causing long-term effects on the ground surface. Pipelines are designed to have a minimal contact with the ground in Alaska.

    I don't think its potatoes and apples at all... in regards to the damage done to the eco-system of the site. If the whole fossil fuel burning thing is put into the equation, that's of course much different. The debate against ANWR, however, is usually made in regards to the damage that will be made to the site and the eco-systems around it. That's the part that I see as hardly different than a wind farm.

    If you think the damage by windfarms is only "visual", you might want to visit one in person if you haven't already... they're kinda fun, but hardly just a bunch of poles on the ground.

  8. #14948
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    ^^^ The argument about using oil, refining it, etc., has nothing to do with drilling ANWR... its going to be transported and refined no matter where its taken from.
    ANWR has loads of forests and animals, including endangered ones. Saudi Arabia has loads of sand.

    ANWR doesn't require permanent roads.
    They'll need to last at least a quarter of a century.

    The Valdez thing... that's a logical argument... and maybe the pipeline argument has merit too, but its little different than one you pose in defense of wind turbines: with only the footprint of the mast causing long-term effects on the ground surface. Pipelines are designed to have a minimal contact with the ground in Alaska.
    Yes, but wind turbines aren't subject to rupture and leakage of massive amounts of oil, nor do they melt permafrost (the pipelines must be kept heated so the oil doesn't freeze).

    I don't think its potatoes and apples at all... in regards to the damage done to the eco-system of the site. If the whole fossil fuel burning thing is put into the equation, that's of course much different. The debate against ANWR, however, is usually made in regards to the damage that will be made to the site and the eco-systems around it. That's the part that I see as hardly different than a wind farm.
    It's quite different. Oil drilling is extremely damaging to the environment in which it takes place. Take a look at Prudhoe Bay or Kenai Refuge, for instance.

    If you think the damage by windfarms is only "visual", you might want to visit one in person if you haven't already... they're kinda fun, but hardly just a bunch of poles on the ground.
    So what's the impact beyond seeing turbines and hearing the blades spin (in addition to what we've already discussed)? I've been to them, and I routinely drive by quite a few.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  9. #14949
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    I don't like wind farms. Far too... 'spinny' for me.

    I'd love one of those WW2 antitank rifles. I could spend a pleasant evening sticking a bullet in the hubs of each one of those damn things. I'd have a pretty sore shoulder, but it would be worth it.

  10. #14950
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    C'mon Orang, the drill sites in ANWR aren't in forests and I don't know what endangered species you're referring to.

    Saudi Arabia? There are plenty of other locations you could have offered as comparison.

    Again, my failure to understand the impact of turbines vs. drilling in ANWR are related to the damage to the environment by the physical structures, which is the argument usually lodged against drilling ANWR... not in regards to the damages associated with burning or refining or transporting fossil fuels... because those will happen no matter if the oil comes from the North Sea, Saudi Arabia, a Texas oil field, A Canadian oil shale field or your kitchen sink.

    You covered most of the turbines' impacts... big arsed concrete footings, big spinning blades, dead birds, ugly to look at, don't get taken down when they break, abandonment by the owners who lost their tax incentives and file bankruptcy, overcharging for power based on funny government accounting methods.

  11. #14951
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Wind turbines require periodic maintenance and repair so there is a need for permanent maintenance roads on large scale wind farms. Dirt roads cause erosion, loss of topsoil and plant life.

    Birds such as eagles, hawks and owls.

    Nobody wants to live near or in a wind farm including animals.

  12. #14952
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    Fluff n Stuff is offline ♫♪♫♪♪♫♪♫♫♪♫♪♪♫♪♫♪♪
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan View Post
    I'm not sure how much is just lip service, but I'm pleased with the RNC's response:

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/...gop/index.html
    McCain (as much as I disagree with some the man's OTHER policies) is taking the high road here... and just might be able to carry it off. He knows that every difference he points out will be scrutinized by the Press to see if there is any reason to shout "RACISM!!!", and he won't willingly give them any ammunition.

    Let's say the Democrat Party Candidate is a Christian who's father came from Iran. Let's say further, that his name was Osama bin Laden. Would his name be a reason to bar him from office? Would that be a reason to prefer his opponent?

    "What" you ask, "are his policies?" And that's the point. Using Barack's middle name to bring attention to his ancestry is to appeal to bigotry. Not to point out a reason he shouldn't be President, not to point out why McCain has better plans... but to point out that Senator Obama is not a white guy. That's racism. Stupid, useless, counterproductive racism.

    John McCain (for all of his manifest faults on policy) can wipe the floor with Senator Obama in the General Election just by sticking to policy issues... serious issues that need to be addressed by the next President.

    I argue with Dafydd ab Hugh at Big Lizards over McCain's apology for Cunningham's use of Obama's middle name in a McCain rally, but I think that McCain's dismissal of the tactic and the disavowal of and apology for those who use it is the only right thing to do. It's smart politics, and for all evidence, it's a reflex for McCain.

    The Republican Party as a whole can at least learn THAT from their presumptive candidate...



  13. #14953
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Should only black actors act as black people or mixed ethnicity actors play roles that match their particular mixed ethnicity?

    Here's a clue... they're acting. Jeez... some people can't even separate reality from fantasy anymore...

  14. #14954
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    ^^How insane is that^^


    How insane is this

    http://www.nysun.com/article/72106

  15. #14955
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    Re: Rolleyes News of The Day

    Anyone know anybody thats really good with google analytics?
    Were attempting to understand something and its making me nuts.

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