Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Joined
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    5

    Exclamation

    When I check my VIA Hardware Monitor, I get a Warning! CPU Temperature Alarm! CPU temperature is lower that CPU Hysteresis Temperature!
    What does this mean? What is Hysteresis? Am I in danger of burning up my poor little chip? I downloaded Motherborad Monitor 5 the other day, but I get 0 degree readings from all three temperature sensors there, although I do get readings on voltage, fan rpm's, etc. Please help, this is my dream machine (still a work in progress) and there is a lot I don't understand. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Joined
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Colorado
    Age
    61
    Posts
    1,254
    According to the TechEnclopedia, the definition of hysteresis is "The lag between making a change, such as increasing or decreasing power, and the response or effect of that change."

    Does that help you?!? Probably not. Hopefully someone here can tell you what that means in terms of CPU temperatures. (Why would you get an alarm because of a "lower" temperature - isn't that a good thing?)

    I take it there's nothing in the VIA Hardware Monitor help files to explain what this is? (Assuming there is a help file that came with the monitor....)

  3. #3
    Joined
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    5
    I've looked everywhere I can think of, there is no mention of anything like this in the motherboard manual. And you are right, the definition is confusing to me. I did send an email to IWILL, but have had no response.

    Any ideas on why the Motherboard Monitor 5 is getting only 0 degree readings?

  4. #4
    Joined
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Waynesville, MO
    Posts
    35
    What temps are you getting in bios?
    I worked on a board about 2 weeks ago that was showing 0 temp in the bios, turned out the sensor was shot.
    MSI K8N Diamond Plus, Opteron 170 (10x250), 2gig G-Skill ddr 500, ATI X1900XT,WD Raptor 74 gig, NEC dvd burner, OCZ 700watt psu.

    my heat: http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=30033

  5. #5
    Joined
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    5
    My bios temps seem to match up with the Via temps pretty well. My current CPU temp was 38 C. My system temp was 22C. CPU fan was running between 3900 and 3954. It also says my v core is 1.82. I'm assuming this is normal. I have tried to stay away from anything important until I understand more about this!

  6. #6
    Joined
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    1,726
    Why don'y you try using MBM? I have heard that VIA Hardware Monitor is buggy.

  7. #7
    Joined
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    5
    Yes, I have the Motherboard Monitor. I installed it the other day, if I hover my pointer of the thing in the task bar the readings are 255 C for all three sensors, and if I open up the dashboard all three read 0 C. But it is detecting all kinds of core settings and the rpm's for my CPU fan, and even my CPU MHz. If I change it to Farenheit, it says it 32 F. How can it pick up all the other things, but not my temp?

  8. #8
    Joined
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Western CT
    Posts
    286
    As to your problem with MBM5 - I think you will get all zeros you do the setup.

    Go to the "Temperatures" (second from top in the list on left) then on the right at the very top are two drop-downs for assigning up to 10 sensors.

    The lower of the two shows the sensors available, mine has three: labelled "Via686B-1", "Via686B-2" and "Via686B-3". I found only #2 matched the BIOS temp.. the other two were much lower & near to case temp. Maybe someone else here knows what they are for.

    But I just setup the one sensor & have it displayed in the system tray where I can always monitor it at a glance. I also set the tooltip feature to show the CPU/Mhz value. You do those under Temperatures/Visual & General/Basic, as I recall.

    HTH,
    DJ

  9. #9
    Ira is offline Who Said Its Unbreakable?
    Joined
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    269
    Definiton of the 3 temps thru MBM: One of them is the CPU, second one is case or system temp, and the third is the temp of the 686B chip.

    I had the same problem as GTbird when I first set it up, but I kept reading 491 since I had it set to give degrees in F. I was about ready to remove the software for it until I checked their help section and then found that you had to "teach" it on what the sensors were supposed to sense from. The chart I found that told about the 3 different temps is on their online help site.

    I don't really know how accurate the temps are, but I like the idea of having them in the tray so you can see them. You can also set up the alarm so it will let you know if either temp, voltage, or fan speed gets out of an acceptable level.

    I guess that I would have to say that this is one time it pays to read the help section of the software. I usually don't read that much about it, but it is well laid out and explains it well.

    1.2 T-bird (C)
    Iwill KK266 ver 1.2
    Volcano II HSF
    256Mb Corsair PC150
    IBM DTLA 45Gig HD
    Radeon 32 DDR LE (Unlocked)
    Enlight EN-7237 case
    Windows 98SE
    A Keyboard and a Mouse (otherwise, I couldn't have typed this)

  10. #10
    Joined
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    181
    Hysteresis is a peculiar phenomenon. As a graduating engineering student, I have had a little exposure. So here is what hysteresis is all about.

    Hysteresis is a system's output hystory dependence,be it time dependence or some other sort of dependence.

    Magnetization loops (not time dependent) are the most common type of hysteresis. When a magnetic field is applied in increasing strength, the magnetization of the material increases. But when the field is decreased from its maximum value, the magnetization of the material does not back down the same curve. It usually follows a similar curve somewhat above the original magnetization curve,leaving a residual magnetization in the material. If the field is again applied, the first curve is repeated, forming a loop. But the important aspect here is the hystory dependance. The magnetization in the material is dependant on whether the magnetic field is being increased or decreased from an initial value. In a non-hysteretic system, it would not matter whether the field was being increased or decreased, and only one curve would be present. I will try to find some pictures on the net showing this phenomenon. But this is the reason why you can store data on magnetic tapes; when you remove the magnetic field, you don't remove the magnetization of the material. Another good example is a spring; if you compress the spring, it will not expand to its original length if the expansion process is slow. If you expand the spring from its original length and slowly let it compress, it will equilibrate at some extended length. Both of these cases show that the springs equilibrium length depend upon which direction it was approached from (lower than original or greater than original length), and that dependence is hysteresis.

    Look here for the magnetization hysteresis loop. Note that H is the applied magnetic field and B is the magnetism in the material. The arrows show the direction of the loop in an alternating applied magnetic field. Look for figure 2.
    http://www.dextermag.com/Science_of_Magnets.htm

    The type of hysteresis that OakIris is describing is a time dependance. Basically, changes in output will not occur instantaneously. For example, if you floor the accelerator on your car, you do instantaneously switch to your car's top speed. You have to deal with Newton's laws.

    As for the hysteresis temperature in via hardware monitor, I don't know what it represents. One possibility is that the program is trying to compensate for time lags in the temperature response under the socket. It will take a finite amount of time for the space under the socket to reach the temperature of the CPU. It could also represent that the temperature sensor will not read the actual CPU temp because the space under the socket will always be cooler than the CPU (if the system is not transient). ANother possibliity is that the actual hardware in the temperature transducer suffers from hysteresis loops. This would mean that your temperature would read differently depending upon the hystory of the CPU temperature. Compare it to the magnetization example. The transducer might report higher temperatures if the temperature is decreasing compared to if it is increasing from a lower value.

    But none of these possibilities indicate why you would want an alarm in the HM program if your temp drops below your hysteresis temp (at least that I can think of). So I doubt that my scenarios here are the correct ones. But it is a start.


    With my feet upon the ground
    I lose myself between the sounds
    and open wide to suck it in
    I feel it move across my skin
    I'm reaching up and reaching out
    I'm reaching for the random or
    whatever will bewilder me
    whatever will bewilder me.
    And following our will and wind
    we may just go where no one's been
    we'll ride the spiral to the end
    we may just go where no one's been.
    Spiral out, keep going...
    --------- TOOL, Lateralus --------

  11. #11
    Joined
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    5
    Well, I'm just going to put the hysteresis warning in the junk pile with the voltage mis-reading (read in another post). I still haven't been to the help files for MBM 5, but will as soon as I can, but did get the temp readings working - my stupid oversight, of course! The readings from the bios, via, MBM and Sandra are all close enough that I'm not worried about burning my thunderbird up. I appreciate the responses! Now I guess I need to look into things like flashing the bios. Geez, this stuff is so scary for "old" newbies! Thanks again!

  12. #12
    Ira is offline Who Said Its Unbreakable?
    Joined
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    269
    I am going to make an assumption here. I am guessing that the hysteresis warning comes from information not being updated frequently enough or that the temps are staying the same for too long without a change. The program may simply think that since the temps are not changing, it is not getting a correct input. I hope this makes sense.

    As I said before, I could not get mine to work correctly until I opened the program up in one window and then opened the help site up in another. I then went step by step thru the program and set it up. I have had no problems since. Initially, it all appeared as Greek, by not exactly knowing what they were talking about. By the time I finished the setup, I understood it much better. I would even venture to say that now I could set it up again without even looking at the help.

    As for your voltage problem, I have the warning turned off for my 2.5 volts. Mine too reads around .38 or so. The KK does not use this voltage...the KA does. By not using this voltage, it probably is not being regulated by the board and this is the reason for the incorrect reading. This is also why I first got a warning about this voltage when I set the program up at first.

    Hope this helps in some way.

    1.2 T-bird (C)
    Iwill KK266 ver 1.2
    Volcano II HSF
    256Mb Corsair PC150
    IBM DTLA 45Gig HD
    Radeon 32 DDR LE (Unlocked)
    Enlight EN-7237 case
    Windows 98SE
    A Keyboard and a Mouse (otherwise, I couldn't have typed this)

  13. #13
    Joined
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pa.
    Posts
    1,408

    Question help site?

    Hello,

    IRA Where did you find the help site for the VIA HWM system monitor?

  14. #14
    Ira is offline Who Said Its Unbreakable?
    Joined
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    269
    Originally posted by Ira
    Definiton of the 3 temps thru MBM: One of them is the CPU, second one is case or system temp, and the third is the temp of the 686B chip.

    I had the same problem as GTbird when I first set it up, but I kept reading 491 since I had it set to give degrees in F. I was about ready to remove the software for it until I checked their help section and then found that you had to "teach" it on what the sensors were supposed to sense from. The chart I found that told about the 3 different temps is on their online help site.
    Racefan,
    I never said anything about a help site for VIA HWM. I was talking about the one for MBM. The help site for MBM is located here.

    1.2 T-bird (C)
    Iwill KK266 ver 1.2
    Volcano II HSF
    256Mb Corsair PC150
    IBM DTLA 45Gig HD
    Radeon 32 DDR LE (Unlocked)
    Enlight EN-7237 case
    Windows 98SE
    A Keyboard and a Mouse (otherwise, I couldn't have typed this)

  15. #15
    Joined
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    313

    Hysteresis ... the way it should work

    Ok... lets see...if you set an alarm to be active at say 80 deg C and you wanted the system to go into 50% IDLE mode for a bit while things cooled down... you would want to setup that lower temp threshold at temperature that was a lot lower than that of the 80 deg C alarm threshold.... this is a hysteresis temperature of say 20 deg C... so then the CPU would idle 50% of the time until a temp of 60 deg C is indicated by the CPU temp sensor... then the user would have full processing speed avail again.

    Some programs let you set the % idle, most set it auto at 25% to 50%. At 50% you cool things down quickly but the system will "seem fairly slow" to you. At 25% you only take a minor "efficiency hit", but it takes almost four times as long to cool down the required 20 C to the 60 C threshold so you get full processor output again.

    Waterfall and Rain, CPUidle and other programs work with MBM v5 and up --- to setup this config in a controlled manner... hope this helps your level of understanding.... read some doc's and help files on MBM 5 or Rain --- if you need more info.
    Iwill KK266R v1.1,
    1.13GHz Athlon vC (266),
    Taisol HSF - Arctic Silver II,
    512Mb Mushkin Rev2 RAM, 4way 2-2-2
    SX-1030b case, 8 fans total (all quiet types)
    Maxtor 45G HD, 20 G HD, Zip 250 IDE
    Matrox G450 dualhead adaptor
    Princeton EO2010 21" monitor
    Sys # 2 Dell 220 Precision W/S,
    plus 6 other older Pentium computers.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •