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  1. #31
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    Talking

    Res, thats cool and I am happy for you , but could you please post a link to that exact same cd. The one you posted above isnt the same.

    Thanks!

    AND HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE!!!

  2. #32
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    There is nothing wrong with charging for open source. While OSS devs may love to do it, they still have to make a buck, just like everyone else. The beauty of OSS is in its name--it's open source. You don't have to worry about backdoor holes for the CIA, built-in adware, etc. And on the practical side of software development, it can keep you from re-inventing the wheel. No one has to write a windowing engine anymore because we already have one--XFree86 and its variants--that we can re-use in our own code to our hearts' content. And, while most GPL'ed stuff does tend to be free because the license requires the source code to be made available, binaries do not have to be made available, and there is no problem charging for a nice distro disc. After all, even if the devs donate their time to produce the distro, they still have to pay server costs, bandwidth costs, etc., and the money has to come from somewhere. And, of course, it doesn't have to be money with which you pay. Maybe, in the case of Gentoo, you host an rsync server. Ultimately, however, if OSS is to become the dominant software mode in IT, it has to be profitable, and I think we all prefer OSS to be the dominant mode.
    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star / Beyond the utmost bound of human thought ... To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
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  3. #33
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    Lightbulb

    Originally posted by Gil-galad on 04-11-2004 at 09:53 AM
    There is nothing wrong with charging for open source. While OSS devs may love to do it, they still have to make a buck, just like everyone else. The beauty of OSS is in its name--it's open source. You don't have to worry about backdoor holes for the CIA, built-in adware, etc. And on the practical side of software development, it can keep you from re-inventing the wheel. No one has to write a windowing engine anymore because we already have one--XFree86 and its variants--that we can re-use in our own code to our hearts' content. And, while most GPL'ed stuff does tend to be free because the license requires the source code to be made available, binaries do not have to be made available, and there is no problem charging for a nice distro disc. After all, even if the devs donate their time to produce the distro, they still have to pay server costs, bandwidth costs, etc., and the money has to come from somewhere. And, of course, it doesn't have to be money with which you pay. Maybe, in the case of Gentoo, you host an rsync server. Ultimately, however, if OSS is to become the dominant software mode in IT, it has to be profitable, and I think we all prefer OSS to be the dominant mode.

    See I knew I shouldnt view your thread -- I should of just kept you on my ignored list.

    Gil, LOOK at the mirror list for Gentoo and most LINUX DISTROS.

    WHERE ARE THEY LOCATED??

    Are they at GIL-GALADS house,, home of 3D Artwork? NO they are not. THEY ARE AT COLLEGES, so lets just stop right there and think about that?

    Who pays for the bandwidth?

    Is it GENTOO?

    OR is it all the kids (parents) hard earned money that pays for an extremely OVERPRICED education.

    I would have to say its the Colleges. Look at my favorite mirror and thats Clarkson College in Potsdamn NY. Gentoo doesnt have crap for time invested there.

    So back to your "they still have to pay server costs, bandwidth costs, etc., and the money has to come from somewhere." bottomline is THEY DONT!!

    Bottomline: Linus Torvalds design did not want anyone to have to pay for linux. HE CREATED LINUX NOT FRIGGIN GENTOO!!

    When you give into the " I back them with my money" Crap your no better than all the millions that Buy WIndows.

    Also FYI , if you think that Linux is "SAFER" to use against "Big Brother" than any other Distro?? LOL thats too funny you really need to talk to anyone that is a good hacker. Most linux Distros are full of holes.

    Gaim is one, Mozilla is another, Thunderbird is another, Kmail ,,etc, I could go on and on.

    Its no safer just spyware & basically virsus free. But that doesnt mean , Big Brother cant see you.

    Later.

    EDIT: BTW HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE!!!
    Last edited by 64Bit; 04-11-2004 at 10:56 AM.

  4. #34
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    I beleive the 2cd set consists of the live cd plus the "packages-<your arch>-2004.0.iso" cd. If you wanna install from the net, just use the live cd. If you wanna install from cd, use the live cd and the package cd.

  5. #35
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    Originally posted by 64Bit on 04-11-2004 at 09:14 AM
    Res, thats cool and I am happy for you , but could you please post a link to that exact same cd. The one you posted above isnt the same.

    Thanks!

    AND HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE!!!
    Now there is the problem...I don't remember where I got it from.
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  6. #36
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    Originally posted by 64Bit on 04-11-2004 at 10:46 AM
    See I knew I shouldnt view your thread -- I should of just kept you on my ignored list.

    Gil, LOOK at the mirror list for Gentoo and most LINUX DISTROS.

    WHERE ARE THEY LOCATED??

    Are they at GIL-GALADS house,, home of 3D Artwork? NO they are not. THEY ARE AT COLLEGES, so lets just stop right there and think about that?

    Who pays for the bandwidth?

    Is it GENTOO?

    OR is it all the kids (parents) hard earned money that pays for an extremely OVERPRICED education.

    I would have to say its the Colleges. Look at my favorite mirror and thats Clarkson College in Potsdamn NY. Gentoo doesnt have crap for time invested there.

    So back to your "they still have to pay server costs, bandwidth costs, etc., and the money has to come from somewhere." bottomline is THEY DONT!!

    Bottomline: Linus Torvalds design did not want anyone to have to pay for linux. HE CREATED LINUX NOT FRIGGIN GENTOO!!

    When you give into the " I back them with my money" Crap your no better than all the millions that Buy WIndows.

    Also FYI , if you think that Linux is "SAFER" to use against "Big Brother" than any other Distro?? LOL thats too funny you really need to talk to anyone that is a good hacker. Most linux Distros are full of holes.

    Gaim is one, Mozilla is another, Thunderbird is another, Kmail ,,etc, I could go on and on.

    Its no safer just spyware & basically virsus free. But that doesnt mean , Big Brother cant see you.

    Later.

    EDIT: BTW HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE!!!
    Happy Easter, So which gates are you again? bill jr.
    XP1800+@2011 FSB 175
    Epox 8kha+
    samsung ddr 2700
    Gentoo w/ ltsp4
    Diskless client:
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  7. #37
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    There's nothing wrong with charging for Linux, or for open source software. The GPL allows for it. Straight from the folks responsible for the GPL:

    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

    Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU project is that you should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that you should charge as little as possible -- just enough to cover the cost.

    Actually we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please read on.

    The word ``free'' has two legitimate general meanings; it can refer either to freedom or to price. When we speak of ``free software'', we're talking about freedom, not price. (Think of ``free speech'', not ``free beer''.) Specifically, it means that a user is free to run the program, change the program, and redistribute the program with or without changes.

    Free programs are sometimes distributed gratis, and sometimes for a substantial price. Often the same program is available in both ways from different places. The program is free regardless of the price, because users have freedom in using it.

    Non-free programs are usually sold for a high price, but sometimes a store will give you a copy at no charge. That doesn't make it free software, though. Price or no price, the program is non-free because users don't have freedom.

    Since free software is not a matter of price, a low price isn't more free, or closer to free. So if you are redistributing copies of free software, you might as well charge a substantial fee and make some money. Redistributing free software is a good and legitimate activity; if you do it, you might as well make a profit from it.

    Free software is a community project, and everyone who depends on it ought to look for ways to contribute to building the community. For a distributor, the way to do this is to give a part of the profit to the Free Software Foundation or some other free software development project. By funding development, you can advance the world of free software.
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  8. #38
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    Lets try to keep tempers cool even though this is a heated topic

    Part of Linux being free (as in speech not beer) is also freedom to sell it. You can normally get it for free, but if one is so inclined there is also the freedom to purchase it. As far as I'm concerned buying the product (or support whatever) is part of the freedom. I will personally never buy a distro because I agree with 64Bit to a degree in that part of software being free it seems appropriate for it to free in every way possible. But, people are also entitled to make a living and if they chose to sell something more power to them.
    i code therefore i am

  9. #39
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    Talking

    Originally posted by Eggs on 04-11-2004 at 04:53 PM
    Lets try to keep tempers cool even though this is a heated topic

    Part of Linux being free (as in speech not beer) is also freedom to sell it. You can normally get it for free, but if one is so inclined there is also the freedom to purchase it. As far as I'm concerned buying the product (or support whatever) is part of the freedom. I will personally never buy a distro because I agree with 64Bit to a degree in that part of software being free it seems appropriate for it to free in every way possible. But, people are also entitled to make a living and if they chose to sell something more power to them.
    Thanks Eggs and I agree with what you say , and even the post from jase71 to some degree. But my whole point was once again simple (not that it ever stays that way, LOL)

    I just feel ike Eggs as stated above, if you have to BUY the software, WHY WOULD YOU?? To me thats what open-source is all about. Its not about, OK I made the software and YOU distribute it and make tons of money off of my work. To me thats just wrong. Plain and simple.

    Guys hope you have or are having a great easter!

    Peace.

  10. #40
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    One of the things I like about open-source software is that the decision to pay for it is up to me. If I feel it's worth supporting, and worth my money, I'll pay for it. If it's not, I don't have to.

    In the past, I've paid for Caldera OpenLinux, Suse, Redhat, and Mandrake. (Caldera and RedHat I bought back in the days when I didn't have broadband to download ISOs.) Mandrake I bought because I used it for a long time, and thought it was worth the support of a good distro. I've also used a few versions of Mandrake without buying.

    I'm facing that decision now with Gentoo. I've used it long enough, and gotten enough benefit from it that I feel like I need to give something back, to do at least a little something to make sure Gentoo is still around in the future.

    I'm not a programmer, or I'd contribute some assistance in that way. I'm not enough of a linux "guru" to provide reliable support to the community, or I'd contribute in that way. So, without a better way to participate, cash will be a substitute. It doesn't take much, and it lets me feel like I'm doing at least something to help build a better distro...
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  11. #41
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    Well-said, Jase.
    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star / Beyond the utmost bound of human thought ... To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
    --from "Ulysses", Tennyson

  12. #42
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    I second Gil-galad's comment. I joined the Mandrake Club because I thought they were doing a good thing. There is no "free lunch."
    Lou_The_Blue_Guru - For those working with computers that havenít figured this out yet: "Everything is related with every other thing ... " -- The Jaina Philosophy of Non-Absolutism

  13. #43
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    Cool

    Originally posted by LouTheBlueGuru on 04-11-2004 at 10:26 PM
    I second Gil-galad's comment. I joined the Mandrake Club because I thought they were doing a good thing. There is no "free lunch."
    I am a member also , but obviously something isnt right, we are all members and Mandrake just barely escaped bankruptcy, so whats that tell yah? LOL

    Oh well, I am a member because I like better mirrors not because I want to support mandrake, honestly I could care if they folded tomorrow because the cool thing about linux is there is always a new Distro right around the corner.

    Maybe thats why I like Distros like Arch Linux & Rock Linux So much because there great linux Distros without the hype and are not trying to make money off of you.

    Bottomline: Do what you want with your money you will never get me to believe that , that is what Our maker of Linux wanted. Because he didnt. But if you want to piss your money away , why not join the millions and send it to Bill.

    Peaceout!

  14. #44
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    Originally posted by jase71 on 04-11-2004 at 08:09 PM
    One of the things I like about open-source software is that the decision to pay for it is up to me. If I feel it's worth supporting, and worth my money, I'll pay for it. If it's not, I don't have to.

    In the past, I've paid for Caldera OpenLinux, Suse, Redhat, and Mandrake. (Caldera and RedHat I bought back in the days when I didn't have broadband to download ISOs.) Mandrake I bought because I used it for a long time, and thought it was worth the support of a good distro. I've also used a few versions of Mandrake without buying.

    I'm facing that decision now with Gentoo. I've used it long enough, and gotten enough benefit from it that I feel like I need to give something back, to do at least a little something to make sure Gentoo is still around in the future.

    I'm not a programmer, or I'd contribute some assistance in that way. I'm not enough of a linux "guru" to provide reliable support to the community, or I'd contribute in that way. So, without a better way to participate, cash will be a substitute. It doesn't take much, and it lets me feel like I'm doing at least something to help build a better distro...
    Jase an OFF TOPIC question here, do you get full 3D Support with your ATI 9200 and if so what driver are you using? Just curious?

  15. #45
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    Originally posted by 64Bit on 04-12-2004 at 09:14 PM
    Jase an OFF TOPIC question here, do you get full 3D Support with your ATI 9200 and if so what driver are you using? Just curious?
    I've got full 3D support with the 9200. I'm running the 3.2.8 drivers. Tried the 3.7.6, but the UT2004 performance was noticeably slower, so I just downgraded back to the 3.2.8 drivers. I don't game much, so I don't know what the performance would have been like in other games with 3.7.6.

    I never really had any problems getting it set up and running (at least no problems I didn't create myself ) . Just kinda worked for me right off the bat following the steps in one of the Gentoo guides.

    So I must be either really, really good... or really, really lucky. I'm bettin' on lucky.
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