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  1. #1
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    "Compassion" - to punish queers

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/01/so....ap/index.html

    Official justifies harsher penalties for gay sex
    Says promoting traditional values is reason enough
    Wednesday, September 1, 2004 Posted: 10:14 AM EDT (1414 GMT)

    TOPEKA, Kansas (AP) -- The state can punish illegal underage sex more harshly when it involves homosexual acts, even if the only goal is promoting traditional values, a state official told the Kansas Supreme Court on Tuesday.

    In a closely watched case, Deputy Attorney General Jared Maag said legislators have such broad latitude in setting policy that "any conceivable, rational basis" would justify the different treatment.

    Maag argued in favor of upholding a sentence of more than 17 years in prison for Matthew R. Limon, convicted of criminal sodomy for having sex at age 18 with a 14-year-old boy in 2000.

    Had the victim been a girl, Limon could have been sentenced to one year and three months in prison under a 1999 "Romeo and Juliet" law that gives shorter sentences to heterosexuals if the partners' ages are within four years and under 19.

    His attorneys argued the different treatment represents discrimination against gays and lesbians and is unconstitutional.

    But Maag said the different treatment is acceptable if legislators can argue there's a rational reason -- including promoting traditional values.

    "If you admit there's a conceivable basis that's at least arguable, then that is enough to uphold the statute as constitutional," he said.

    James Esseks, an American Civil Liberties Union attorney representing Limon, said the state has "fanciful justifications" for the harsher sentence.

    Esseks said the state is basing its law on "private prejudice," which is constitutionally unacceptable.

    The Kansas Court of Appeals rejected Limon's appeal in 2002. Last year, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down a Texas law criminalizing gay sex and returned Limon's case to the state courts.

    But in a 2-1 decision in January, the Kansas Court of Appeals noted that the U.S. Supreme Court case involved consenting adults and sided with the state again. Limon then appealed the state Supreme Court, which could rule as early as October 15.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  2. #2
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    Re: "Compassion" - to punish queers

    Has anyone checked to see if we, indeed, share DNA with people in Kansas?

    My video "tribute" to Armed Assault.

  3. #3
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    Re: "Compassion" - to punish queers

    Harsher punishement for illegal underage sex? So f'ing what? Noone gives a shit if two 16-year olds go at it, this sure as hell ain't gonna be enforced.

  4. #4
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    Re: "Compassion" - to punish queers

    Quote Originally Posted by mostholycerebus
    Harsher punishement for illegal underage sex? So f'ing what? Noone gives a shit if two 16-year olds go at it, this sure as hell ain't gonna be enforced.
    You might want to reread the article. An 18 year old (under 19 is underage) had sex with a 14 year old. He faces 17 years in jail. If his victim was female, the max he would face was 1 year and three months.

    In other words, he was charged and the law was enforced.

    I look forward to reading the brief on this one. Traditional values? Orangutan, we could have fun with this one. Should we go back 2000 years or 200 for a look see at what traditional values might mean? Better still, perhaps it's time to debate again why the statue of justice has a blindfold. I like that traditional value.

  5. #5
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    Re: "Compassion" - to punish queers

    Don't traditional values mean that women drop out of school at the age of 13 and get married to some old fat guy against their will. An 18 year old having consentual sex with a 14 year old should never be criminal. Putting this person in jail for 17 years just shows that this state is mostly run by biggots.

  6. #6
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    Re: "Compassion" - to punish queers

    Quote Originally Posted by afalzone
    Don't traditional values mean that women drop out of school at the age of 13 and get married to some old fat guy against their will. An 18 year old having consentual sex with a 14 year old should never be criminal.
    Am I reading that right? Adults should never have sex with children PERIOD.

    As far as the law it's definitely garbage. There should be equal punishment for either form of sexual assault or statutory rape(whichever of the two or both will be used to charge the defendant).

  7. #7
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    Re: "Compassion" - to punish queers

    Am I reading that right? Adults should never have sex with children PERIOD.
    {}

    Well, that's "iffy", to say the least. If an 18 year old guy has sex with a 16 year old girl, should he be charged with a crime? What about a 15 year old who is about to turn 16? What ages are now included in "childhood"? I don't consider people in their teens children, but I also don't consider them adults. If we can try these supposed "children" as adults for things like murder and then impose adult sentences on them, that to me is truly indicative of our beliefs surrounding age and maturity. Someone is mature enough to be tried as an adult for murder but isn't mature enough to have sex with one of their peers?

    {}
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  8. #8
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    Re: "Compassion" - to punish queers

    The title of this thread is clearly biggoted and disrespectful to any homosexual members we may have on the forum.

  9. #9
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    Re: "Compassion" - to punish queers

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    {}

    Well, that's "iffy", to say the least. If an 18 year old guy has sex with a 16 year old girl, should he be charged with a crime? What about a 15 year old who is about to turn 16? What ages are now included in "childhood"? I don't consider people in their teens children, but I also don't consider them adults. If we can try these supposed "children" as adults for things like murder and then impose adult sentences on them, that to me is truly indicative of our beliefs surrounding age and maturity. Someone is mature enough to be tried as an adult for murder but isn't mature enough to have sex with one of their peers?

    {}
    you would think so...i dont think the difference lies in the maturity level but the severe of the offense...death very severe

    A 17 banging someone 13 months younger not a very big deal........

    A 14 yo can understand the severity of death where as banging a chick 3 years older would be your best wet dream. Almost All is gray in those years death is not so gray

  10. #10
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    Re: "Compassion" - to punish queers

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew LB
    The title of this thread is clearly biggoted and disrespectful to any homosexual members we may have on the forum.
    I though you were anti-gay? Maybe just anti-gay marriage?

  11. #11
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    Re: "Compassion" - to punish queers

    The title of this thread is clearly biggoted and disrespectful to any homosexual members we may have on the forum.
    {}

    Right, because obviously I'm a bigot, especially against queer people. Nevermind that there's an entire discipline centered around "Queer Studies" and "Queer Theory". In fact, I had a semester on it last Spring and out of the forty members in the class, I was one of the half-dozen heterosexual ones. Before you tear off on a rant against me simply because I'm me, perhaps you should do some checking.

    {}
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  12. #12
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    Re: "Compassion" - to punish queers

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew LB
    The title of this thread is clearly biggoted and disrespectful to any homosexual members we may have on the forum.
    Isn't there a huge TV show airing right now called "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy?"

    Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
    George W. Bush <--- Al Qaeda's #1 Recruiter

    GWB - "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job!"
    On Nov. 6, 1963, Laura Welch (now Bush) ran a stop sign and murdered Michael Douglas.
    republiKan values: mark foley, tom delay, jack abramoff, john rowland, duke cunningham, david safavian, bob taft, brent wilkes, james tobin, scooter libby and ernie fletcher. Poster CRIMINALS and PEDOPHILES of the repug party.
    The only two things you ever need to know about GWB:
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    "I don't know where he is. I have no idea, and I really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - George W. Bush, 3/13/02

  13. #13
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    Re: "Compassion" - to punish queers

    I think the punishment should be 17 years of prison for any adult having sex with any minor. The punishment for any two minors having sex should be juvenile detention.

    I don't buy the two days from turning 16 argument, or the only 13 months older argument. You can't vote till you're 18, can't drive till a certain age. Why include all the "gray" thinking on sex?

    And Kansas should be ashamed. Trying to promote traditional values how funny. "Hey perverts! Go have sex with a little girl we'll let you off easy!" Unbelievable.
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  14. #14
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    Re: "Compassion" - to punish queers

    There's a book out right now called "What's the Matter with Kansas?" by Thomas Frank that sheds a bit more light on why ridiculous things like this happen in our conservative middle America.

    It's sad that many in our country would be much better off living in a Spanish Inquisition era, instead of the modern world where tolerance should be the norm, not the exception.
    George W. Bush <--- Al Qaeda's #1 Recruiter

    GWB - "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job!"
    On Nov. 6, 1963, Laura Welch (now Bush) ran a stop sign and murdered Michael Douglas.
    republiKan values: mark foley, tom delay, jack abramoff, john rowland, duke cunningham, david safavian, bob taft, brent wilkes, james tobin, scooter libby and ernie fletcher. Poster CRIMINALS and PEDOPHILES of the repug party.
    The only two things you ever need to know about GWB:
    "The most important thing is for us to find Osama Bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." - George W. Bush, 9/13/01

    "I don't know where he is. I have no idea, and I really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - George W. Bush, 3/13/02

  15. #15
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    Re: "Compassion" - to punish queers

    Quote Originally Posted by smoked trout
    I think the punishment should be 17 years of prison for any adult having sex with any minor. The punishment for any two minors having sex should be juvenile detention.

    I don't buy the two days from turning 16 argument, or the only 13 months older argument. You can't vote till you're 18, can't drive till a certain age. Why include all the "gray" thinking on sex?

    And Kansas should be ashamed. Trying to promote traditional values how funny. "Hey perverts! Go have sex with a little girl we'll let you off easy!" Unbelievable.
    for the 17 yo and 14 yo its gray i never said it was gray for me @ 18 i wouldnt touch a 14 yo

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