View Poll Results: Hold 'em back?

Voters
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  • Yes, the child should be held back

    16 80.00%
  • No, the child should not be held back

    1 5.00%
  • Undecided

    2 10.00%
  • Spanish, really should be a required 2nd language in the US

    1 5.00%
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Joined
    May 2004
    Posts
    987

    English vs. Spanish

    I was watching an episode of Sanford & Son off the fourth season DVD collection (which I highly recommend you pick up at your local Best Buy at your earliest convience for your entertainment pleasure ) and it brought up an interesting question.

    The episode was about Julio's nephew, who is Puerto Rican, coming to stay with him and enrolling in an American school. The nephew becomes upset because the principal wants to put him in the 4th grade because he can't keep up with English well enough for the 5th grade. The nephew as well as the rest of the family become upset because they feel the child is smart enough to keep up with 5th grade material. This the principal doesn't dispute, but the kid just can't keep up in English.

    Now this show was filmed in the mid '70s so I'm sure issues like this are not as relevent today as they were then, so forgive me for being late bringing up the subject. The question I have is, in such a situation would it be wrong for the school to hold a student back a grade because they can't keep up in English or should the school hire teachers who speak Spanish?

    Personally, since English is the official language of the U.S., I think the school would be in the right to hold the child back a grade. Also, being that English is one of the main courses in school, one not being able to keep up would mean they are qualified to pass a grade. It would be like a student not being able to pass math but still being graduated to the next grade because they can pass everything else. The same would go for an English speaking student to go to school in Mexico. If they can't keep up with Spanish, then they should be held back a grade. However, considering, that Puerto Rico is a commonwealth of the U.S. and Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens, the waters get muddy.

    What do you think?

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  2. #2
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    8,887

    Re: English vs. Spanish

    The United States has no official language.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States
    http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20011107.html

    Every student in the U.S. should be proficient in at least two languages. Students who do not have the ability to comprehend the required level of English should attend intensive classes to take them up to speed. That goes for non-native as well as native speakers of English. Full support should be given to non-native speakers, in terms of both signs, forms, and text as well as tutors and teachers.
    Last edited by Orangutan; 09-07-2004 at 02:45 AM.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  3. #3
    Joined
    Dec 2003
    Location
    NY
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,517

    Re: English vs. Spanish

    yes he should. I as well beleive a child should learn as many languages as possible. I feel 2nd languages should be taught in grade school going onto high school so a student can actually master tha language. Im in hs now, and man, people have been taking spanish for 3 years and still cant speak the language worth a shit (I speak spanish fluently so I would know ). Same goes with more languages, the more one can learn the better I would really like to learn to speak other languages as well but alas I really wouldnt have the time. This is why I beleive 2nd languages should be taught in grade school. Just my opinions of course
    Phenom 9850 Black Edition @ 3.2GHz | Biostar 790gx | Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 4GB | Asus Radeon HD4870 512MB | Antec NeoHe 550 | Soyo 26" lcd

  4. #4
    Joined
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    Age
    31
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    6,438

    Re: English vs. Spanish

    You should have to be able to speak english to live here and if you wanna make it to the 5th grade you should have to be able to keep up in english as well as everything else.

  5. #5
    Joined
    Feb 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    14,238

    Re: English vs. Spanish

    is he here leagly or illegaly?

    "same here, it'll be a sad day should amdmb ever totally dissapear, i don't care too much for these "pc's" or their "perspectives" i just like my amdmb's." - SuBX3r0

  6. #6
    Joined
    May 2003
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Age
    62
    Posts
    2,168

    Re: English vs. Spanish

    Here in NW Arkansas the hispanic population continues to grow each year. On average, the schools in this area are now up to around 30% hispanic. The language barrier has been a continuing problem for some time. The schools are dealing with it the best that they know how. Hiring translators to assist teachers and creating classes ESL classes (English as a Second Language) for those who don't know English. Unfortunately, there just aren't enough bi-lingual teachers to go around. Even if there were, having to explain something to a class in both English and Spanish takes time away from the teaching the subject.

    IMO the real problem is a lack of English speaking support at home. Many of these kids have parents who do not speak English and don't have any desire to learn. They would rather use 'no comprende' as an excuse rather than make an effort to learn the language.

    As for the question in this thread, I don't think they should be held back unless they can't keep up and all efforts to help them have failed. In my experience most hispanic children want to learn english. If for no other reason, than to just be able to communicate and get along with their classmates. Most of the time they pick up on it pretty quick. I've seen many occurances where the kids are translating for their parents.

  7. #7
    Joined
    May 2003
    Location
    Mississippi Gulf Coast
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,375

    Re: English vs. Spanish

    I say it depends on the particular kid. A case by case type thing.
    no longer pregnant. Miscarried on 3/26

  8. #8
    Joined
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Home
    Posts
    6,884

    Re: English vs. Spanish

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    The United States has no official language.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States
    http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20011107.html

    Every student in the U.S. should be proficient in at least two languages. Students who do not have the ability to comprehend the required level of English should attend intensive classes to take them up to speed. That goes for non-native as well as native speakers of English. Full support should be given to non-native speakers, in terms of both signs, forms, and text as well as tutors and teachers.
    True enough on the "official language" bit. As for being proficient in at least two languages, why? I agree that it's beneficial and we are raising our kids to know both English and Spanish, but you imply making it (being at least bi-lingual) a requirement. Why? Being beneficial is one thing, but requiring an expenditure of resources (particularly when plenty of kids already struggle to learn enough about "core" subjects) doesn't strike me as a great idea, so I'm curious about your reasoning.

    As for full support, somewhere ya gotta draw the line. Should we have signs, forms, and text as well as tutors and teachers for every single language no matter how many or few of those native speakers exist here?

    If everything in life was free then I could agree with much of your suggestion. As it is, things cost money. I have no problem paying for teachers to educate kids learning English, but I would not go out of my way to essentially make English non-necessary (by having signs, etc., in an alternate language).

  9. #9
    Joined
    May 2004
    Posts
    987

    Re: English vs. Spanish

    Quote Originally Posted by victimizati0n
    is he here leagly or illegaly?
    All Puerto Ricans can come here legally. They're US citizens. I should have clarified that the situation I'm talking about involves a Puerto Rican child, not to be confused with anyone from anywhere else in Latin America.

    I'm seeing some good responses. It's interesting all the variables involved. Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond!

  10. #10
    Joined
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Plainfield, IL
    Posts
    5,177

    Re: English vs. Spanish

    Poll needs to let us choose multiple options.

    We have standards set at each grade level, and if a child can't reach them he should be held back. I feel kids these days should be taught spanish as well, but lets face it, kids these days come out of high school with barely proficiency in english. Throwing another language onto what teachers have to cover is just gonna worsen the situation.

  11. #11
    Joined
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,463

    Re: English vs. Spanish

    Quote Originally Posted by victimizati0n
    is he here leagly or illegaly?
    Puerto Rico is a commonwealth of the United States of America. It would be very rare for it to be illegal for any Puerto Rican to come to the mainland.

    It is also true that the US does not have an offical language.

    In this case I think that the school and the parents should split the cost of of an english tutor for the kid, so he can continue on to 5th grade.

    I also think that languiages should be taught much earlyer than they are now. It is far easyer to learn a language when you are very young than it is later in life.

  12. #12
    Joined
    Dec 2003
    Location
    NY
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,517

    Re: English vs. Spanish

    Quote Originally Posted by oralpain
    Puerto Rico is a commonwealth of the United States of America. It would be very rare for it to be illegal for any Puerto Rican to come to the mainland.

    It is also true that the US does not have an offical language.

    In this case I think that the school and the parents should split the cost of of an english tutor for the kid, so he can continue on to 5th grade.

    I also think that languiages should be taught much earlyer than they are now. It is far easyer to learn a language when you are very young than it is later in life.

    That is very true, languages are far easier. In my district language starts at 8th grade. At that level kids have no interest in learning. But if language was being taught at lets say the first grade level, where kids participate much more, I feel many would be fluent spanish speakers
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