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  1. #16
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    Re: $100 Billion anti-missile system effectiveness is doubted

    *cues star wars opening theme*
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  2. #17
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    Re: $100 Billion anti-missile system effectiveness is doubted

    It's been doubted for years. The stupid thing doesn't even work and probably never will. I mean, conservatives supposedly don't like wasteful government spending. Well, then why the hell do you support the politicians that promote this sh*t? It's nothing but a $100 billion handout to "defense" contractors. Think about what that money could be better used for. It's mind boggling.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../missile/view/

    http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolit...l/StarWars.asp

  3. #18
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    Re: $100 Billion anti-missile system effectiveness is doubted

    Quote Originally Posted by GamingDirk
    It's been doubted for years. The stupid thing doesn't even work and probably never will. I mean, conservatives supposedly don't like wasteful government spending. Well, then why the hell do you support the politicians that promote this sh*t? It's nothing but a $100 billion handout to "defense" contractors. Think about what that money could be better used for. It's mind boggling.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../missile/view/

    http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolit...l/StarWars.asp
    Well, to be fair it's not like the money is put in a big pile and burned. Most of the money goes to pay a lot of employees, subcontractor's employees and from there into their local and national economy. All of these people and businesses will pay tax ...and so it goes round again.

  4. #19
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    Re: $100 Billion anti-missile system effectiveness is doubted

    Quote Originally Posted by GamingDirk
    It's been doubted for years. The stupid thing doesn't even work and probably never will. I mean, conservatives supposedly don't like wasteful government spending. Well, then why the hell do you support the politicians that promote this sh*t? It's nothing but a $100 billion handout to "defense" contractors. Think about what that money could be better used for. It's mind boggling.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../missile/view/

    http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolit...l/StarWars.asp
    I certainly hope they never end this program. Because the day North Korea's leader wakes up with an even worse hair day than before, and decides to launch a nuke at us, those who were against this are going to be some very sorry people.

    Let's face it. This system isn't perfect right now. But, just the prospect of North Korea's or Iran's missiles being shot down will put some fear into their leaders' minds. If they think there's a good chance they won't get away fairly clean with a preemptive strike, there's no way they're going to try it. This is why we need a missile defense. I guess it all comes down to how much your life is worth. How much is it worth?

  5. #20
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    Re: $100 Billion anti-missile system effectiveness is doubted

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveW
    You can do a simple Google search and find out how many US weapon systems won't work.

    To name a few:

    Partiot missile defense system
    B-2 bomber
    B-1 bomber
    M1A1 Abrams tank
    F-117 stealth bomber

    Just look around 1990 and very early 1991 when all the "Experts" made their claims about the hardware the US military "was going" into Desert Storm with - to face the legendary "Elite Republican Guard" with their greatly feared and respected "Combat Seasoned/Hardened" troops.

    Now, I ask you to produce an actual list of deployed US weapon systems over the past 40 years that actually didn't meet or greatly exceed design specifications.

    Hint: It's going to be a very short list.

    Next, produce a list of deployed US weapon systems over the past 40 years that have not at one time or another been attacked in the House/Senate as "Unnecessary", "Pork Barrel" or "Too Costly". Addioionally, show the ones that were actually produced in the original numbers that the government had the contractors actually bid to. i.e. the ones that were not scaled back like the F/A-22 from 750 units to 339 units - to include all support elements. (this contract is still floundering in total numbers to be produced due to cost caps)

    HInt: This will be a long list and probably include the ALL of them.

    Next, show a solution for the contractors to keep per unit costs from rising for a weapon system originally bid and contracted for 750 units that has been scaled back to 339 units like the F/A-22 Raptor has.

    Steve, I can tell you from the Navy and Air Forces point of view that the AIM-7 Sparrow Air-to-Air missile has been a huge failure. It was simply to far ahead of its time. However, we have since began replacing it with the AIM-120C AMRAAM and that has been a complete success the sparrow was supposed to be.
    "Ability may get you to the top, but only character will keep you there." -Uknown

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  6. #21
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    Re: $100 Billion anti-missile system effectiveness is doubted

    The Air Force has also been testing an Airborn LASER designed to shoot down missiles, and it looks like it works fairly well.
    "Ability may get you to the top, but only character will keep you there." -Uknown

    "It is easier to fight for ones principles then to live up to them." -Alfred Adler

    "We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." -Ronald Reagan

    "Freedom can be lost in a single generation...It is my prayer that our people always remember; freedom is never free." -General John A. Wickham, Jr.

    "Saddam didn't exacly support terrorists...he would give compensation to suicide bombers families in palestine.. The isreal government would often bulldoze there houses..hence he would be covering the damages..." - Computerwiz

  7. #22
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    Re: $100 Billion anti-missile system effectiveness is doubted

    I doubt the general public even knows a 10th of whats out there being developed right now. When it works, we get to know. BD51
    http://forums.pcper.com/trading.php TRADING RULEZ!! BIGDADDY51 I've joined the QUAD CROWD! ASUS M3A78 & a 9850

  8. #23
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    Re: $100 Billion anti-missile system effectiveness is doubted

    Quote Originally Posted by BIGDADDY51
    I doubt the general public even knows a 10th of whats out there being developed right now. When it works, we get to know. BD51
    That's a fact. And in many cases we don't know until way AFTER it works as in the case of the F-117.

  9. #24
    Joined
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    Re: $100 Billion anti-missile system effectiveness is doubted

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveW
    That's a fact. And in many cases we don't know until way AFTER it works as in the case of the F-117.
    It's best to not know when some of our systems work. I'd rather not have another country put our missile defense system to the test. Trouble is then nobody knows it really works and everyone complains about how much money it wastes. That is, until it is eliminated and we get nuked, then they'll complain about how we should've had a missile defense system. My opinion is put the system in place, forget about the people who complain about how much it costs, and even though nobody really knows it's protecting them, it is. If the day comes where we have to put the system to the real test, we'll all be glad we have it, and we'll find out if it really works.

  10. #25
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    Re: $100 Billion anti-missile system effectiveness is doubted

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoststalker
    Steve, I can tell you from the Navy and Air Forces point of view that the AIM-7 Sparrow Air-to-Air missile has been a huge failure. It was simply to far ahead of its time. However, we have since began replacing it with the AIM-120C AMRAAM and that has been a complete success the sparrow was supposed to be.
    Like I said, the list of FAILURES or "Less than anticipated" performance of US deployed weapon systems will be a VERY SHORT one.

    Yep, the Advanced Medium Range Air to Air Missile (AIM-120 AMRAAM) have worked well since back in the early days of deployment in NORAD Air Defense when used on the F-16A/B OCU ADF aircraft.

    A "Fire and Forget" weapon primarily designed for "Head to Head" or "Head On" confrontations with Soviet aircraft - Soviet bombers in the ADF role and fighters for our NATO allied forces in Europe.

    There have been problems with many of the systems when initially fielded. AFAIK, none have proven short in combat.

    F/A-18 had problems when new, the B-1, etc. Generally speaking, when we deploy a new weapon system it's new technology. Technology that in most cases will be around for 20 or more years of use when fielded.

    With ANY new technology there is the unknown.

    The major issue with weapons procurement (to include R & D) and deployment, is politics. The politicians will favor systems that create jobs in their districts over sound rationale just about every time.

    Then come the idiots in the media.

  11. #26
    Joined
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    Location
    USA
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    364

    Re: $100 Billion anti-missile system effectiveness is doubted

    Quote Originally Posted by Enmore
    Well, to be fair it's not like the money is put in a big pile and burned. Most of the money goes to pay a lot of employees, subcontractor's employees and from there into their local and national economy. All of these people and businesses will pay tax ...and so it goes round again.
    The same argument could be made about any massive government program. This is nothing more than corporate welfare. That $100 billions could have an immeasurably better impact on society if it were spent on education, healthcare, or to help save the tens of millions that are dying of AIDS.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalNuke
    I certainly hope they never end this program. Because the day North Korea's leader wakes up with an even worse hair day than before, and decides to launch a nuke at us, those who were against this are going to be some very sorry people.

    Let's face it. This system isn't perfect right now. But, just the prospect of North Korea's or Iran's missiles being shot down will put some fear into their leaders' minds. If they think there's a good chance they won't get away fairly clean with a preemptive strike, there's no way they're going to try it. This is why we need a missile defense. I guess it all comes down to how much your life is worth. How much is it worth?
    This doesn't make us any safer. It just increases nuclear tension throughout the world by compelling potential enemies to build more nukes to overwhelm the system. Once more, if Kim Jong Il really wanted to blow us up he doesn't need to use missiles. All he would have to do is smuggle a few of them through our unguarded ports. You're just being paranoid. Bush has got you people scared of your own shadows. This is the only way right-wingers win elections; they gotta terrify the population and keep people from thinking rationally.

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