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  1. #1
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    Problem [revisit] hello- a suggestion

    Would it be possible to add a Fraud section to the forum?

    If so thank you,

    Alpha
    Nebraska Game and Parks



    I've been at this a long time and I still know nothing!! High end digitized ~ analog, turkey hunter.

    American Audio Nut- my gear- JBL, DBX, Revel, Thorens, Shure, Odyssey, M&K, AB International, Van Alstine, PS Audio, Pioneer, Trio, Dynaco, Integra Research, Audio Research, and JBL Pro.

  2. #2
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    Re: hello- a suggestion

    we are in the middle of a rather large forum restructure. at this time...adding more forums just isnt possible. however. this does not mean we wont consider this at a later time. for now im going to mark this as revisit until we get the new structure in place.

    thanks for your suggestion
    hmm...

  3. #3
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    Re: [revisit] hello- a suggestion

    Thank you, Oh Wiseone, true to your name sake
    Nebraska Game and Parks



    I've been at this a long time and I still know nothing!! High end digitized ~ analog, turkey hunter.

    American Audio Nut- my gear- JBL, DBX, Revel, Thorens, Shure, Odyssey, M&K, AB International, Van Alstine, PS Audio, Pioneer, Trio, Dynaco, Integra Research, Audio Research, and JBL Pro.

  4. #4
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    Re: [revisit] hello- a suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha_03
    Thank you, Oh Wiseone, true to your name sake
    lol



    np
    hmm...

  5. #5
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    Re: [revisit] hello- a suggestion

    wouldn't that come under the 'bad trader' section IMHO? Maybe just rename that to make it more inclusive - no extra forum needed as such. Maybe add some stickies with links to the various authorities and/or some articles on how to persue a bad trader?


  6. #6
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    Re: [revisit] hello- a suggestion

    well I am not refering to people, but rather, companies.

    BTW, I am really enjoying the "comments" section for all the PCP articles Wiseone. That was a very good idea.

    You should let everyone know of it.

    Alpha

    EDIT: LOL OMG raptor- that Sig is funny as hell
    Nebraska Game and Parks



    I've been at this a long time and I still know nothing!! High end digitized ~ analog, turkey hunter.

    American Audio Nut- my gear- JBL, DBX, Revel, Thorens, Shure, Odyssey, M&K, AB International, Van Alstine, PS Audio, Pioneer, Trio, Dynaco, Integra Research, Audio Research, and JBL Pro.

  7. #7
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    Re: [revisit] hello- a suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha_03
    well I am not refering to people, but rather, companies.

    BTW, I am really enjoying the "comments" section for all the PCP articles Wiseone. That was a very good idea.

    You should let everyone know of it.

    Alpha

    EDIT: LOL OMG raptor- that Sig is funny as hell
    thanks but ryan gets the credit for that. im glad you are liking it tho
    hmm...

  8. #8
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    Re: [revisit] hello- a suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha_03
    well I am not refering to people, but rather, companies.

    BTW, I am really enjoying the "comments" section for all the PCP articles Wiseone. That was a very good idea.

    You should let everyone know of it.

    Alpha

    EDIT: LOL OMG raptor- that Sig is funny as hell
    I can't speak for the US but in the UK, the same broadly general rules relating to fraud apply to both private individuals and companies. Obviously there are different standards applied to companies in the way they approach their customers and the remedies available are different. There is also the international aspect to be considered, especially in the computer industry.

    I think its a really good idea you have, but am trying to think on how to incorporate it into the existing forum structure to save the mods more work

    What about a couple of stickies in the bad traders section, maybe rename the forum to (off the top of my head) 'Dispute Resolution' - something more inclusive and more professional sounding?

    If we had a couple of stickies that ppl could contribute links/information to, one for consumer trading resolution and one for private trading resolution, someone could moderate it to keep it concise and to follow up/confirm information provided is accurate.

    I could certainly provide UK relevant information if needed - although I don't practice law, I do have my part 1 Legal Executive qualification and plenty of information on sale of goods and company law, remedies available in private disputes etc.

    Can you be more specific about the sort of information you would like to see, or that you think could be made available?

    just my 2 cents, but let me know if I can help.

    ps. like the new staff log TWO I know you'll see this so I am going to get onto the news posting again, but just one for now - let me know whether Memory or Displays - i'd prefer memory pleeeeze

    [edit] pps let me know if you want me to knock up something with remedies for our UK members - things like time limits for bringing a complaint; stuff you might not at first think of.
    Last edited by RaptorX; 10-19-2004 at 07:51 AM.

  9. #9
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    Problem Re: [revisit] hello- a suggestion

    Howdy RaptorX, sure, and thanks for your reply.

    I believe many companies require an "extra push" sometimes reguarding REAL customer support, feedback, and replacement/repair procedures.

    Far too often, many poeple get ripped off, and either give up, or, try to garner assistance but get no where and finally- simply give up. As well, because of really bad customer support, and very time exaustive efforts on the consumer side of things effort goes with out reward on the consumer side of things.

    I feel this is unfair.

    I have had to use the BBB before and they are lack luster at best.

    So I feel that web exposure via. the many readers here-in will gather considerable support, and send a message to would be "rip-offs"- "If you sell it, back up your product with the support you promise" other wise the word is out- if you get my meaning.....

    I know this works from personal experience and if you would like to discuss this privately, please P.M me, I'd be happy to give you two examples that I have had experience with. One of which went very well, the other - well, it took a long while to get resolved- took nearly a year.

    That is terrible support IMO.

    edit: I think Ideas from everyone would be best to support this Idea, that is, if you at PCP decide to implement any changes/support.

    Thank you, and let me know what ya think.

    Alpha
    Last edited by alpha_03; 10-20-2004 at 08:11 PM.
    Nebraska Game and Parks



    I've been at this a long time and I still know nothing!! High end digitized ~ analog, turkey hunter.

    American Audio Nut- my gear- JBL, DBX, Revel, Thorens, Shure, Odyssey, M&K, AB International, Van Alstine, PS Audio, Pioneer, Trio, Dynaco, Integra Research, Audio Research, and JBL Pro.

  10. #10
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    Re: [revisit] hello- a suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha_03
    Howdy RaptorX, sure, and thanks for your reply.

    I believe many companies require an "extra push" sometimes reguarding REAL customer support, feedback, and replacement/repair procedures.

    Far too often, many poeple get ripped off, and either give up, or, try to garner assistance but get no where and finally- simply give up. As well, because of really bad customer support, and very time exaustive efforts on the consumer side of things effort goes with out reward on the consumer side of things.

    I feel this is unfair.

    I have had to use the BBB before and they are lack luster at best.

    So I feel that web exposure via. the many readers here-in will gather considerable support, and send a message to would be "rip-offs"- "If you sell it, back up your product with the support you promise" other wise the word is out- if you get my meaning.....

    I know this works from personal experience and if you would like to discuss this privately, please P.M me, I'd be happy to give you two examples that I have had experience with. One of which went very well, the other - well, it took a long while to get resolved- took nearly a year.

    That is terrible support IMO.

    edit: I think Ideas from everyone would be best to support this Idea, that is, if you at PCP decide to implement any changes/support.

    Thank you, and let me know what ya think.

    Alpha
    I know how you feel, i've just had soemthing similar myself. Briefly - got an MP3 palyer for my son which he dropped damaging the headphone jack. We told the company what had happened and they agreed to repair it telling us the circuit board was cracked. They then kept it for nearly 4 months failing to respond to emails and phone calls. Finally after I posted a review of them them they got in touch, giving 3 contradictory excuses as to why it had taken so long.

    Anyway, the repair failed after 2 weeks so i took a look and found that the 45 i paid had actually got me a poor soldering job that would have taken maybe 10 minutes. As the cost of a blob of solder is almost nothing, in effect I reckon they are charging 270 an hour labour.

    Now they are accusing me of libel and slander and threatening to take me to court for refusing to have the poor review I did on romulus2 removed, so i've said to go ahead and take me to court so i can show the judge their superb workmanship.

    In fact I may take them to small claims court, even though it would cost as much as the repair, because companies need to know they can't lie to ppl about what they are charging for

    [edit] even though i'm not a mod or anything and don't have any decision making powers here, i think your idea is a good one and extremely relevant to what these forums are about

    [edit edit] I want to take control your forum are belong to us Muwahahaha
    Last edited by RaptorX; 10-21-2004 at 08:40 PM.

  11. #11
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    Re: [revisit] hello- a suggestion

    A concise summary of distance selling regs in the UK, for a start, if the mods allow a sticky to be made somewhere. If anyone has any links to US trading law I'd be interested to do some reading

    Know The Law - Distance Selling/Home Shopping
    Under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, if you shop for goods or services by way of the telephone, mail order, internet or digital television, you have rights to receive the following: -

    * clear information;
    * a cancellation period for any reason;
    * protection against credit card fraud.

    The rules apply to consumers purchasing almost all types of goods by way of home shopping. (There are exemptions to the rules that include leisure services, transport and accommodation provided on specific dates, sales of land, financial services, auction sales, automated vending machines).

    Before you buy you must be provided with the following information: -

    * sellers name and address;
    * a description of goods or services;
    * price including all taxes
    * delivery costs if applicable;
    * arrangements for payment and delivery
    * cancellation rights and liability for costs of returning goods;
    * for services - minimum duration of the contract.

    Right To Cancel
    The consumer has a right to cancel within seven days starting from the day after the day on which the goods were received.

    In a contract for services, the right to cancel is from the day after the contract was made. Where the contract is for services, once the service has commenced, the right to cancel is lost.

    If the supplier fails to give this information, the cancellation period is extended for up to three months and 7 days from the day after the contract was concluded.
    Exceptions To Your Cancellation Rights
    There are certain exceptions to cancellation rights which include the following: -

    * personalised goods, i.e. goods made to personal specification;
    * perishable goods, i.e. flowers;
    * unsealed audio/video recordings, computer software;
    * newspapers.

    These rules apply where consumer purchases are made without any direct contact with the supplier, i.e. by telephone, mail order, digital television or internet. They do not apply to goods ordered for business use.

    Orders should be fulfilled within 30 days unless you agree otherwise.

    On cancellation, the seller is responsible for the cost of returning the goods, unless the contract provides that the consumer must return any goods supplied. Any refund should be received within 30 days.


    http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/w...t/support6.htm

    http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/fa...stancesell.htm

    A good link on how to deal with faulty goods - some good advice for anyone, not just in the UK, on what information you need to keep a note of etc...

    http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/h...ds.html#faulty

    buying overseas goods

    http://www.thesite.org/youthnet/jsp/...p?d=388&a=3415

    Traders guide to the sale and supply of goods in the uk

    http://www.consumer.gov.uk/ccp/topic...rsguide.htm#15

    The main Dept for Trade & Industry website

    http://www.consumer.gov.uk/ccp/topics.htm

    new regulations from 2003 on sale of goods, with extended time limits in favour of the buyer

    http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:e...s+uk+law&hl=en

    UK law - guide to unfair terms in contracts

    http://www.oft.gov.uk/Consumer/Unfai...s/guidance.htm

    Exclusion clauses: If not contained within a contract, a notice must be used ie. a sign or poster. This must be brought to the attention of the buyer before or at the time of the contract. In the case of distance selling, exclusion clauses must be available for the buyer to see in the terms and conditions, or for eg. somewhere obvious on the website. An exclusion clause will not be part of the contract of sale if you only get to see it after buying the goods. The classic case is Olley v Marlborough Court Hotel [1949]

    see section 2.1, para 2.

    http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/la...9_2/macdonald/

    Its nice to get my law books back out again
    Last edited by RaptorX; 10-21-2004 at 08:20 PM.

  12. #12
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    Re: [revisit] hello- a suggestion

    wow very cool and off to a great start if i can find the time I will try to follow suite.

    Alpha
    Nebraska Game and Parks



    I've been at this a long time and I still know nothing!! High end digitized ~ analog, turkey hunter.

    American Audio Nut- my gear- JBL, DBX, Revel, Thorens, Shure, Odyssey, M&K, AB International, Van Alstine, PS Audio, Pioneer, Trio, Dynaco, Integra Research, Audio Research, and JBL Pro.

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