Watercooling for the ultimate $1,500 system

[LoneMonkey]

The same setup is in this post...just figured the water cooling questions should be asked here.

http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=357948

case: Antec Super Lanboy $78
psu: Antec 480W-true $88
Cpu: Athlon 64 3000+ 754 $163 (this cpu or will the 3200 o/c better?)
mobo: DFI LANPARTY UT nF3 250Gb $129
ram: OCZ Gold Edition Rev3 2x512 $268
hd : people said raptor isn't worth it...so i'll just stick with the one in my sig
VidCard: Gainward nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT OC $420

Pump: DD D4 12v pump $74 (again is this worth it or should i just get a normal pump+relay)
CPU : DD TDX $58
chipset: DD maze4 $45
VGA: Swiftech MCW50+NV $50
Reservoir: DD HDPE $17.95 (might go T-line, still reading up on it)
heatcore: DD $30
120mm fans: $30

Now the questions I have for the watercooling pro's:

1. Case....what case to get? Will everything fit in the lanboy? I know its kinda cramped but if it fits I don't mind, will I end up having to mod the case to fit radiator in the front? If this case is a bad idea please recommend one that requires no modding and is CHEAP.

2. What psu to go with for watercooling? antec 480 good idea or unreliable?

3. Should I watercool the 6800 gt or leave it with stock cooling (fan/heatsink)? how much of a performance increase will watercooling it get me?

4. DD D4 12v pump $74...seems expensive for no reason...is it worth it or are there better options....also will I need a relay with other options and how much will that cost.

I'm hoping for at least 250x10 o/c.

For the vidcard I'm not sure how high it would o/c on watercooling. Also, I'm not sure how much of a performance increase I'd see out of overclocking the vid card.


Lastly is this rig worth $1,500 to replace my current rig in my sig. Do I do all this soon or should i just wait 6mo-year before I upgrade?

The goal of this computer is to make a great OVERCLOCKED GAMING RIG. While not spending tons on it.

[BloodKing©]

in my opinion stick with what you have right now. soon the 939 sockets with PCI-express will arrive and they will give nice headroom for future upgrades. 'that's what i'm doing right now. i did just build my WC together but all i have to do when i get the new socket and vid card is change out the blocks.

[Blackeagle]

I'm also waiting. I've bought the case I want, water pump, GPU block & rad. I'm also on the waiting list for the Storm water block.

But I'll not buy drives or circut boards till after the first of the year.

[LoneMonkey]

Usually I upgrade once every 2-4 years. Will the 939 socket last that long? Pci-express seems to be at its starting point and chances are the first generation of vidcards arn't gonna take full advantage of it. However, would waiting till the 939 comes out then getting a cheap 754 be a good idea or would it just be stupid?


When the 939 comes out if i were to get that then i'd wait for a dfi board to come out. Any timeframe on that?

Also will the $1,500 still hold?

Lastly how long is the wait till the 939 comes out?

[Hubris]

With regards to case size and radiators.....it basically comes down to how far do you want to overclock, and how quiet do you expect it to be? If you want the absolute limit in cooling and overclocking, you need a good sized rad...likewise if you hope to run fans at 7V in quiet mode, it'll work much better if you can run a pair of 120mm fans, rather than a single. A dual 120 requires a fairly big case....or else modding.

The DD12V is a good pump, high pressure so it'll work well with your TDX. Are you sure you want to watercool your NB? It'll decrease the flow and cooling to your cpu, unless you are going to try for extremely high FSB (250 is fairly high imo) the NB limits overclocking more often than it helps.

Watercooling your GPU helps as well, but really you want to keep the same kind of blocks in use in the system. The TDX is a low flow, high-pressure block. The Maze-based blocks are high-flow, low pressure...which means that while they will work together, it won't be as effective as if you were to stick to high-pressure blocks.

Basically it comes down to what you are willing to do, and what you are willing to put up with.

[Blackeagle]

No way socket 754 will last anywhere near 4 years. I expect they'll stop making new chips for it by the end of 2005, or early 2006.

939 should be around for at least long enough for you to do one upgrade in a couple years, perhaps much longer.

[Blackeagle]

With regards to case size and radiators.....it basically comes down to how far do you want to overclock, and how quiet do you expect it to be? If you want the absolute limit in cooling and overclocking, you need a good sized rad...likewise if you hope to run fans at 7V in quiet mode, it'll work much better if you can run a pair of 120mm fans, rather than a single. A dual 120 requires a fairly big case....or else modding.

The DD12V is a good pump, high pressure so it'll work well with your TDX. Are you sure you want to watercool your NB? It'll decrease the flow and cooling to your cpu, unless you are going to try for extremely high FSB (250 is fairly high imo) the NB limits overclocking more often than it helps.

Watercooling your GPU helps as well, but really you want to keep the same kind of blocks in use in the system. The TDX is a low flow, high-pressure block. The Maze-based blocks are high-flow, low pressure...which means that while they will work together, it won't be as effective as if you were to stick to high-pressure blocks.

Basically it comes down to what you are willing to do, and what you are willing to put up with.

Good advice. Most of all regarding the NB block, get a Swifty 159 instead does a great job at low noise & saves your water pressure/flow for where it's needed more.

And I just saw a thread earlier today at Xtreme Systems where a guy was showing the inside of his Maze 4, and only about half the anodized coating was left on the inside of the top.......not good.

Fusion would be a better match with the TDX than the Maze & you can buy it with a copper top.

www.frozenmods.com

[LoneMonkey]

ok changes so far

Pump: DD D4 12v pump $74 (again is this worth it or should i just get a normal pump+relay)
CPU : DD TDX $58
chipset: Swifty 159 $35 (was at maze 4 $45)
VGA: Cyclone Fusion(do i want hl or sl for a 6800gt?) $50 (was Swiftech MCW50+NV $50)
Reservoir: DD HDPE $17.95 (might go T-line, still reading up on it)
heatcore: DD $30
120mm fans: $30

so which case/heatcore to go? thats what its down to now. 2 fans doing push/pull at 7v will be a nice quite setup. What case will fit it without mods? and did you mean double radiator or just a normal heatcore.

"you need a good sized rad...likewise if you hope to run fans at 7V in quiet mode, it'll work much better if you can run a pair of 120mm fans, rather than a single. A dual 120 requires a fairly big case"

Do you mean a dual radiator? or a heatcore with 1 120 fan on each side of it?

Out of watercooling I'm trying to get good o/c. Nose isn't too much of an issue if its not SUPER LOUD LIKE MY VOLCANO 9. Juse price is the only issue really

[Hubris]

A dual radiator or dual heatercore would be the ideal. Dual fans on a single 120 rad are only slightly more effective than a single....and they increase the noise noticably compared to a single fan, even running 7V. Generally dual radiators are expensive when they're sold specifically for watercooling, while dual heater cores can easily be had for $30-40. For best performance at the lowest possible noise, you want a large rad/core that has dual 120mm fans, rather than a smaller rad with fans in a push/pull arrangement. The compromise is that a dual heatercore is large, and either requires a large case, or requires some modding and mounting at the side or the top of the case rather than the typical bottom front.

so which case/heatcore to go? thats what its down to now. 2 fans doing push/pull at 7v will be a nice quite setup. What case will fit it without mods? and did you mean double radiator or just a normal heatcore.

Do you mean a dual radiator? or a heatcore with 1 120 fan on each side of it?

Out of watercooling I'm trying to get good o/c. Nose isn't too much of an issue if its not SUPER LOUD LIKE MY VOLCANO 9. Juse price is the only issue really

[LoneMonkey]

A dual radiator or dual heatercore would be the ideal. Dual fans on a single 120 rad are only slightly more effective than a single....and they increase the noise noticably compared to a single fan, even running 7V. Generally dual radiators are expensive when they're sold specifically for watercooling, while dual heater cores can easily be had for $30-40. For best performance at the lowest possible noise, you want a large rad/core that has dual 120mm fans, rather than a smaller rad with fans in a push/pull arrangement. The compromise is that a dual heatercore is large, and either requires a large case, or requires some modding and mounting at the side or the top of the case rather than the typical bottom front.

how many degrees C diff am I looking at going from heatcore to dual?

If I decide on dual is there any case that woulden't need a mod (don't want full tower mid-mini only)

If I use lan boy and put 2 heatcores (1 in front of case and one in back) will that hurt flow?

[Hubris]

It's very hard to guestimate what temp difference you would see....depends how much heat you are dealing with, what kind of fans you use, etc. A dual heatercore would probably be a couple degrees lower than a single with dual fans, or would be considerably more quiet with the same degree of cooling.

Personally, I'm not aware of any case (except perhaps a Koolance or other that already is pre-modded for H20) that would fit a dual-120mm radiator without SOME kind of modding. I use full towers, and you still generally have to remove a drive cage to make room.

2 heater cores aren't likely going to be much more restrictive themselves than a single dual, but I think it's usually a challenge to figure out how to mount them so that you don't end up with a sharp bend somewhere...and that bend would be restrictive.

I'm using a single 120mm heatercore with a single 120mm fan (at full speed) to cool a dual-cpu machine that's seeing some overclocking. I'm not suggesting that a dual heatercore is an absolute necessity, however my duallie is not nearly as quiet as a lot of systems because I need to push a lot of air to keep 2 cpu's cool, and my single heatercore doesn't allow me to under-volt the fan and maintain enough airflow.

This gets back to what I mentioned earlier - case cooling is all about compromises. As your cooling needs increase, you either need to get more aggressive with larger radiators and fans, or else you need to accept more noise for airflow. It is absolutely impossible to start out with a goal of having a tiny, whisper-quiet, ultra-overclocked system - one needs to decide what their goals are, and pick components that match the goals. If SOME overclocking but not MAXIMUM overclocking is the goal, you might be able to get away with a single heatercore and 7V fan - worst case scenario you'd have to increase the fan speed if you found it wasn't cooling well enough....or upgrade your rad in the future.

how many degrees C diff am I looking at going from heatcore to dual?

If I decide on dual is there any case that woulden't need a mod (don't want full tower mid-mini only)

If I use lan boy and put 2 heatcores (1 in front of case and one in back) will that hurt flow?

[rcoe]

Sounds like a nice machine your are trying to put together.

I think you are going to have real problems trying to fit it all inside a Lanboy case. I used a Lanboy for my second rig and really like it, but not much room especially once you start talking about liquid cooling. For the system you are looking to build any mid-tower is going to be very cramped.

I would just bite the bullet and get a full tower, they are much easier to adapt to liquid cooling. Plus you have plenty of room to tuck everything, so it does not look all jumbled together.

[Hubris]

It can be done in a smaller case if that's your priority, however you usually have to take a bit of a hit on ultimate cooling performance and/or noise levels compared to larger rigs.

[LoneMonkey]

Thank you bloodking and blackeagle.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...VIEWTMP=Linear

after reading that I realized how stupid I'd be to spend 1,500 on a computer right now when new tech is right around the corner...so I'm gonna end up waiting.

I'm still wondering weather to watercool or not...$300 or so bucks go to watercooling. If that money is put into system upgrades maybe a raptor and stuff wouldent that just make a better computer (even if not overclocked)...

[rcoe]

Thank you bloodking and blackeagle.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...VIEWTMP=Linear

after reading that I realized how stupid I'd be to spend 1,500 on a computer right now when new tech is right around the corner...so I'm gonna end up waiting.

I'm still wondering weather to watercool or not...$300 or so bucks go to watercooling. If that money is put into system upgrades maybe a raptor and stuff wouldent that just make a better computer (even if not overclocked)...

Only problem with going the waiting route is that there is always something just over the horizon that promises to be the greatest.

The way I look at water cooling is that it is a hobby and something fun and different to do.