How many persons do you know killed in the present war?

[h_a_]

How typical a thread gets turned into a "it's Bush's fault" no matter what the content of the beginning thread was about.

Next thing we'll hear is that Bush was a part of the food for oil scam. Last I checked, the opposition for aggression in Iraq were those same countriess that are being investigated on that program ... who would guess. Yeah, we'll definetely need UN approval to wipe our one ass next.

The current situation is that the UN needs US approval to wipe its ass.

[Enmore]

The current situation is that the UN needs US approval to wipe its ass.

Example?

[pimp my ride]

There is always the possibility when you enlist you may end up somewhere in a situation you may or may not agree with. I'm sure your friend put a lot more thought into that before he enlisted than you do before posting here. So yes, you need to grow up. Using your friend’s death as a springboard to launch one of your anti-war/anti-administration diatribes disrespects the sacrifice he and all military members make on a daily basis.

Im not using my friends death as a "spring board" to launch a anti-war anything.

What is more rude is your attitude that "bush killed these soldiers".

Bush didn't kill anyone.

Iraqi's and foreign insurgents did.

Saddam violated the gulf war cease fire agreement hundreds of times, he was developing WMD's, he constantly violated multiple UN resolutions, he bribed the UN with stolen oil for food money, he caused over a million deaths, and more.

Anyone with an ounce of brain power can see that Saddam needed to go.

He felt the same way i do/did.

So I assume this person was rude as well?

And i know bush didnt kill him, but if bush was never elected president, he would still probably be here today.

[gryphyn]

What IF?
Even though IF is only 2 letters it is still one of the biggest words in the english vocabulary. This word could be used in almost any circumstance a person could think of. This word is mainly used to dream on. It assumes that things are able to be changed. I could use it in this fashion. What IF the towers were never bombed, would we be in this discussion right now? What IF there were no promise land for anyone, would all those in the middle east be arguing about it? IF is a word that can be argued about every day about everything. Since it is a fact that our soldiers are in the middle east and that they are defending what is called democracy. Leave the word IF out of the facts we have today.

[AMDScooter]

Im not using my friends death as a "spring board" to launch a anti-war anything.

Yes, you are. Or are statements like "Bush killed him" "replace him" supposed to honor the dead?

[mr necro]

Myself- 4 persons, 2 of which were friends, 2 others were known to me and one I didn't know but my friends did. Bush better be right is all I can say.

I don't know anyone who got killed but I do know a few hundred that fought in it. I wish I could have been there even if I disagree with the war.

[h_a_]

Example?

OK sorry about the delay - The US has the biggest economy in the world. It's the paymaster for the UN and can set the agenda by witholding money from programs it doesn't like (e.g. UN population fund, which the US has accused of funding forced abortions in China).
It can also try to get rid of UN officials that get into its bad books by criticising it e.g. Mary Robinson who made the big mistake of criticising Israel (US's bosom friend), China's human rights record (US's new best trading partner) and US prisons all in one go.


Countries may commit peacekeepers to the UN for some cause or other but in many cases will not have the logistics and resourses to deploy them over long distances if the troublespot is far away. The US has the most technologically advanced military in the world, and can help with supplying and moving other peoples troops around. The US can control what UN missions go ahead and which ones don't using this leverage.

[Baybrook]

I have to agree, I served my time for the Army now my husband is there for the 2nd time. When you sign that line it doesn't say you get to choose what fights you want to take it says you will do what you are asked. How many people do I know that have died in this war? My brother in law in July, 4 boys from my husbands unit who where nothing less than sons to me. Who called me late at night when they got a flat tire. Who I cooked for a least 3 times a month and whose dirty underwear I washed when 2 of them where sick. I have lost 5 of my own friends that I served with. A comment made to me at a funeral by a mother. " If he knew now that he was going to die, he still would have gone, he believed in what he was doing. Giving others the freedom we have bit by bit." Stay save everyone.

[Nobody1]

OK sorry about the delay - The US has the biggest economy in the world. It's the paymaster for the UN and can set the agenda by witholding money from programs it doesn't like (e.g. UN population fund, which the US has accused of funding forced abortions in China).
It can also try to get rid of UN officials that get into its bad books by criticising it e.g. Mary Robinson who made the big mistake of criticising Israel (US's bosom friend), China's human rights record (US's new best trading partner) and US prisons all in one go.


Countries may commit peacekeepers to the UN for some cause or other but in many cases will not have the logistics and resourses to deploy them over long distances if the troublespot is far away. The US has the most technologically advanced military in the world, and can help with supplying and moving other peoples troops around. The US can control what UN missions go ahead and which ones don't using this leverage.

Oh, I think we SHOULD do the above, as you pointed out the UN is a useless organization without the US.

[Enmore]

OK sorry about the delay - The US has the biggest economy in the world. It's the paymaster for the UN and can set the agenda by witholding money from programs it doesn't like (e.g. UN population fund, which the US has accused of funding forced abortions in China).

Yes, the US accounts for around 22% of the UN's budget. Not worth it I would say. Especially as it's not apreciated and taken for granted. I'm sure many US taxpayers would agree. The withdrawl of the $34m funding for the UN population fund was due to a 1985 U.S. law, the Kemp-Kasten Amendment. This forbids U.S. funding to support programs that carry out "coercive abortion or involuntary sterilization.". The $34 million was spent instead on USAID's Child Survival and Health Program Fund.

It can also try to get rid of UN officials that get into its bad books by criticising it e.g. Mary Robinson who made the big mistake of criticising Israel (US's bosom friend), China's human rights record (US's new best trading partner) and US prisons all in one go.

Mary Robinson upset the Chinese, Russians and several other countries too. She criticised the treatment of refugees in places like Australia, Italy and Denmark. I think the last straw for her was the UN conference on racism in Durban, South Africa, which she chaired. It was hijacked by Muslim bloc countries & the Palestinians and became a diatribe against Israel. It was a complete farce and both the US and Israel walked out and the European delegation threatened to. She resigned when Kofi Annan and several UN Security Council states made it clear that they would not support extending here term of office. But yeah, blame America. It's OK to do that. It's expected.

Countries may commit peacekeepers to the UN for some cause or other but in many cases will not have the logistics and resourses to deploy them over long distances if the troublespot is far away. The US has the most technologically advanced military in the world, and can help with supplying and moving other peoples troops around. The US can control what UN missions go ahead and which ones don't using this leverage.

The US doesn't have a monopoly on transport aircraft and ships though. If it ever wanted to block a UN deployment it could do so with a Security Council veto.

It's interesting to remember that the deployment of troops under the UN flag during the Korean War wasn't vetoed by the USSR. This was because they weren't there. They were boycotting the UN at the time because it wouldn't recognise the government of Communist China.

[pimp my ride]

Yes, you are. Or are statements like "Bush killed him" "replace him" supposed to honor the dead?

Yes, because they are all true.

[h_a_]

Yes, the US accounts for around 22% of the UN's budget. Not worth it I would say.

This is a pretty sad but understandable statement. The UN was supposed to try to prevent wars of agression and genocide but thanks to the greed and self interest of the national governments who go there with their own axes to grind it has become useless. In the past decade the UN has done nothing to stop several mass slaughters organised by member governments, its currently presiding over a fresh genocide in Darfur, and it could do nothing about one of its security council members waging a war of agression in Iraq.
Did I mention the oil-for-food corruption scandal?

Especially as it's not apreciated and taken for granted.

What "appreciation" would you like them to show? The monies should be paid up by the governments towards running the UN impartially, not as some mechanism for currying favour or exercising control. At least, in a perfect world (or even just a slightly better one) that is how it should be.

The withdrawl of the $34m funding for the UN population fund was due to a 1985 U.S. law, the Kemp-Kasten Amendment. This forbids U.S. funding to support programs that carry out "coercive abortion or involuntary sterilization.". The $34 million was spent instead on USAID's Child Survival and Health Program Fund.

In all fairness, I can't blame them for not wanting to pay over money without ensuring none of it is spent on coerced abortion/sterilisation. However, this still gives an example of the power the US has over the UN. I think a similar push is going on concerning promoting abstinence over contraception as a family planning method?

Mary Robinson upset the Chinese, Russians and several other countries too. She criticised the treatment of refugees in places like Australia, Italy and Denmark. I think the last straw for her was the UN conference on racism in Durban, South Africa, which she chaired. It was hijacked by Muslim bloc countries & the Palestinians and became a diatribe against Israel. It was a complete farce and both the US and Israel walked out and the European delegation threatened to. She resigned when Kofi Annan and several UN Security Council states made it clear that they would not support extending here term of office.

The fact that she annoyed alot of powerful governments was probably a sign she was doing a good job (so kill me, I'm Irish ). Again, I picked on the US here to try to show the power they have in the UN. For example, if it were just Australia or Israel or even "just" China that wanted her gone she may not have been forced out but when the US is against you, well... That's why I picked on the US in particular here, and why I chose this as an example of US power at the UN.

But yeah, blame America. It's OK to do that. It's expected.

Ahh... the cry of Anti-Americanism. This has become similar to the way apologists for the Soviets used to say that all critics of the regime were "fascists" or "imperialist running dogs" or "capitalist lackeys" etc.

It's interesting to remember that the deployment of troops under the UN flag during the Korean War wasn't vetoed by the USSR. This was because they weren't there. They were boycotting the UN at the time because it wouldn't recognise the government of Communist China.

That is interesting...

[h_a_]

last post edited for crappy formatting..

[tucker]

I have to agree, I served my time for the Army now my husband is there for the 2nd time. When you sign that line it doesn't say you get to choose what fights you want to take it says you will do what you are asked. How many people do I know that have died in this war? My brother in law in July, 4 boys from my husbands unit who where nothing less than sons to me. Who called me late at night when they got a flat tire. Who I cooked for a least 3 times a month and whose dirty underwear I washed when 2 of them where sick. I have lost 5 of my own friends that I served with. A comment made to me at a funeral by a mother. " If he knew now that he was going to die, he still would have gone, he believed in what he was doing. Giving others the freedom we have bit by bit." Stay save everyone.

Your words are more important, meaningful and wise than all the words uttered in this forum and all the words said by politicians, the media and any one else who speaks to war, death and loss in Iraq. You have been there done that and you live with it every day. God bless you and all of those who serve or country so heroically and ask for nothing but a little support and perhaps a “Thank You” every once in a while.

This old Marine will never forget, always honor and remember the sacrifices of all those who serve in Iraq.

“Thank You”

Semper Fidelis


It is the enemy who kills or fathers, mothers, sons, daughters and friends. To place the blame on anyone else is immature and an injustice. If you have anger and hatred in your heart channel that hatred to where it really belongs.

The question is whom do they die for? They die for the president, politicians, their comrades, their brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers. They die for you and for me they die for all of us, the die for the United States of American and they die for freedom.

Honor them and always remember.

[bete]

Amen little sister.

With a little luck your man will come home to you soon.

Trust in the fact that he is the best and the brightest. He will find a way.

Your what it's all about my dear.

Gods speed honey. Sleep well, he spends his time in good company. They will watch out for him.