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  1. #16
    Joined
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,976

    Re: AMD64 + 32bitOS = A Waste of $$?

    Look at the difference between an 1800 MHz Sempron and an 1800 MHz Athlon-64 (with twice as much cache and 64-bit extensions enabled), and then you'll see how much money you're wasting.

    Answer: $7. Including the extra 256 KBytes of cache.

    Move on. Nothing to see here ...

    Got any other completely pointless things to discuss?

  2. #17
    Joined
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    302

    Re: AMD64 + 32bitOS = A Waste of $$?

    I'm in the "to each his own" category. Just do some research (it doesn't take much...try Anandtech for reviews), and then buy what you want. While most of us here think the A64 is the best buy, it may not be the best buy for you. The choice is yours. Although, I must admit, you won't save much money by buying an XP system.
    AMD Athlon 64 3500+
    Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe
    1GB (2x512MB) OCZ 3700EB
    Chaintech SE6600G 6600GT (1)
    Antec 550W TruePower
    Aspire X-ALIEN Aluminum Case
    Plextor PX-708A 8X DVDR/RW
    Lite-On 52X CDR/RW
    WD 74GB Raptor SATA
    Maxtor 160GB SATA
    Koutech F7210-B Card Reader
    Enermax Multi Panel
    Compro Video Capture Card

  3. #18
    Joined
    Mar 2003
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    2,745

    Re: AMD64 + 32bitOS = A Waste of $$?

    To each his own as far as what is affordable/justifiable but clock for clock an A64 is faster than the older XP's in any 32bit app, whether its 64 or 32 bit doesn't matter, the A64 is faster.
    i7 Beast: Asus P6T Deluxe, Intel i7 920 21x191 (4000) HT on 1.3875v, Swiftech GTZ/D5/BIX2
    6GB (3x2GB) G.Skill pi Black DDR3 1600, ECS 9600GT
    CM STACKER 810, PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750


    i7 Game: Asus P6T, Intel i7 920 20x180 (3600) HT on 1.275v, TRU-120
    6GB (3x2GB) G.Skill DDR3 1333 7-7-7-18, MSI GTX260 OCv2, Dell 3007WFP LCD
    CM STACKER 830, PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750


    AMD: Biostar 790GX A2+, PII X4 940BE 17x200, Freezer 64 Pro
    4GB (4x1GB) Ballistix Tracer DDR2 800, Powercolor 4850
    Corsair VX450

  4. #19
    Joined
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    302

    Re: AMD64 + 32bitOS = A Waste of $$?

    Quote Originally Posted by highoctane
    whether its 64 or 32 bit doesn't matter, the A64 is faster.
    I know that. But he might not care.
    AMD Athlon 64 3500+
    Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe
    1GB (2x512MB) OCZ 3700EB
    Chaintech SE6600G 6600GT (1)
    Antec 550W TruePower
    Aspire X-ALIEN Aluminum Case
    Plextor PX-708A 8X DVDR/RW
    Lite-On 52X CDR/RW
    WD 74GB Raptor SATA
    Maxtor 160GB SATA
    Koutech F7210-B Card Reader
    Enermax Multi Panel
    Compro Video Capture Card

  5. #20
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    515

    Re: AMD64 + 32bitOS = A Waste of $$?

    Wow, thanks all for your thoughts. It seems the consensus would be that the A64s are faster than a Barton not due to its 64bit capability, but its improved cache and bandwidth, agreed? Thanks again all.
    Motherboard: DFI NFII Ultra Infinity 6/19 Official Bios 1.9v | CPU: AMD Mobile XP2600+ Barton IQYHA:0401MPMW @ 2.50 Ghz (227x11) 1.7v | HSF: SLK-947U lapped / 92mm Panaflo H1A w/ RPM / AS5 | Memory: Buffalo/Winbond 1GB (2x512) PC3200 CH-5 @ 11-3-3-3-2.0-13-15-7xauto-e-e-f-e / cpc on / DC / 1:1 3.3v | Graphics Card: eVGA 6800GS 256MB 400/1100 Unlocked to 16x1,6vp / FW82.12 1.5v| Drives: WD 74GB Raptor / Seagate 200GB 7200.7 / NEC 3500AG DVD-RW / LiteOn 52x32x52 | Network/Sound: on-board | PCI Card: WinFast TV2000 XP Deluxe | PSU: Enermax EG475AX-VE | Case: Antec SX1040B | Cooling: Vantec Nexus 205 / 4 Cooler Master 80mm 32CFM Blue LED Fans (2 intake / 2 exhaust) | Temps: 30C idle / 41C load @ 20C room temp | OS: Windows XP Pro SP2 | Benchmarks: PCMark2002: 7708/7387/1412 / 3DMark05: 5533 | Stability: Prime95, 3DMark & Memtest86 tested for 24 hours each | Display: ViewSonic LCD VX922 w/ 2ms Response | Speakers: Logitech Z-340

  6. #21
    Joined
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,976

    Re: AMD64 + 32bitOS = A Waste of $$?

    Yes exactly. The bandwidth gain and latency advantage in the RAM alone makes for a massive increase in speed. AMD64 architecture squeezes north of 2750 MB/s out of a single PC3200-CL2.5 DIMM, which is very very close to the theoretical limit. On a socket-A machine, you'll be lucky to get half that.

    Also, taking all the RAM traffic off the CPU-northbridge connection gives you a neat increase in I/O throughput as well.

    What you then get out of the more effective processor comes on top of that. Remember, you'll get an impressive increase in speed for almost-free once M$ finally get off their arse regarding 64-bit Windows.

    Finally, typing this on a brandnew AMD64 machine, I need to say that having CPU power management (Cool&Quiet) on a desktop machine is VERY nice.

  7. #22
    Joined
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    302

    Re: AMD64 + 32bitOS = A Waste of $$?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter M
    (Cool&Quiet) on a desktop machine is VERY nice.
    How's that working for you? I've been a little curious about it.
    AMD Athlon 64 3500+
    Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe
    1GB (2x512MB) OCZ 3700EB
    Chaintech SE6600G 6600GT (1)
    Antec 550W TruePower
    Aspire X-ALIEN Aluminum Case
    Plextor PX-708A 8X DVDR/RW
    Lite-On 52X CDR/RW
    WD 74GB Raptor SATA
    Maxtor 160GB SATA
    Koutech F7210-B Card Reader
    Enermax Multi Panel
    Compro Video Capture Card

  8. #23
    Joined
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,976

    Re: AMD64 + 32bitOS = A Waste of $$?

    I've got the cheapest board there is (ECS 755-A2) and it's just working. CPU speed goes from 1800 to 800 and back, as required by current load requirement. And I'm not even running Windows, but a pretty old Linux 2.4.something kernel.
    The CPU heatsink, an Arctic Silencer Ultra 64, is quiet at full speed, so I can't even tell whether the board is controlling its speed as well. But anyway, the heatsink stays stone cold even after ten minutes of compiling lengthy source codes.

    The important bit is to NOT choose a fan/heatsink that has its own thermal rpm regulator. Else you'll have two regulation circuits fighting each other.

  9. #24
    Joined
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    265

    Re: AMD64 + 32bitOS = A Waste of $$?

    Anybody who thinks the amd 64 is just 64 bit and useless in NON 64 bit oses/apps is either a idiot or a salesman! Both being dumb as dirt! =) But yeah. I myself went from a mobile 2500+ @ 2.5 ghz with slightly tighter timings on the ram to what i have now and even with the SAME exact OS install (i didn't reinstall) my win2k even at stock 2.0 ghz 3200+ speed ran REAL nice. Much snappier and games, apps, etc. just run a good bit better! I couldn't believe how much snappier it was but defintly am happy i got what i did! But yeah too many dumb people out there thinking bits is just bits. Anybody remember the bit wars on consoles years ago?
    DFI NF4 SLI-DR w/ 3700+ Sandy @ 2500+ mhz
    2x1gb g.skill Ram @ 250 mhz @ 2.5-3-2-0-1T
    XP-120 w/ YS-Tech 120 mm Fan
    X-Superalien Blue Aluminum Case
    BFG 7800GTX @ stock speeds!
    NEC 3500A 16X DVD-RW Drive
    Silverstone Zeus 650w PowerSupply!

  10. #25
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    515

    Re: AMD64 + 32bitOS = A Waste of $$?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazman2
    Anybody who thinks the amd 64 is just 64 bit and useless in NON 64 bit oses/apps is either a idiot or a salesman!
    Tazman, up until now everyone has put forth constructive information, bringing to light information I did not have about the A64s. Then you have to make a comment of a 12 year old. Everyone, even you at one point, did not know everything about the A64s. Were you "a[n] idiot or a salesman!"? Just wondering...

    To everyone else, thanks again for the information.
    Motherboard: DFI NFII Ultra Infinity 6/19 Official Bios 1.9v | CPU: AMD Mobile XP2600+ Barton IQYHA:0401MPMW @ 2.50 Ghz (227x11) 1.7v | HSF: SLK-947U lapped / 92mm Panaflo H1A w/ RPM / AS5 | Memory: Buffalo/Winbond 1GB (2x512) PC3200 CH-5 @ 11-3-3-3-2.0-13-15-7xauto-e-e-f-e / cpc on / DC / 1:1 3.3v | Graphics Card: eVGA 6800GS 256MB 400/1100 Unlocked to 16x1,6vp / FW82.12 1.5v| Drives: WD 74GB Raptor / Seagate 200GB 7200.7 / NEC 3500AG DVD-RW / LiteOn 52x32x52 | Network/Sound: on-board | PCI Card: WinFast TV2000 XP Deluxe | PSU: Enermax EG475AX-VE | Case: Antec SX1040B | Cooling: Vantec Nexus 205 / 4 Cooler Master 80mm 32CFM Blue LED Fans (2 intake / 2 exhaust) | Temps: 30C idle / 41C load @ 20C room temp | OS: Windows XP Pro SP2 | Benchmarks: PCMark2002: 7708/7387/1412 / 3DMark05: 5533 | Stability: Prime95, 3DMark & Memtest86 tested for 24 hours each | Display: ViewSonic LCD VX922 w/ 2ms Response | Speakers: Logitech Z-340

  11. #26
    Joined
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,463

    Re: AMD64 + 32bitOS = A Waste of $$?

    An A64 is a better bang for the buck currently than any Athlon XP, even an XP-M, and even if you intend to overclock.

    If you need a fast, inexpensive computer, get a chaintech VNF3-250 and a retail 2800+ or 3000+ (AX). Thats just over 200 bucks total and 2.4Ghz+ should be nearly guaranteed. Every other component can be the same as what you would use in an XP-M system. Yes, the XP-M cpu is cheaper, but you also need to spend more on a musch better than stock heatsink if you want to get it to near the performance of an A64 that has been OCed with the stock fan.

    I'm running stable 24/7 at 2.52GHz with the retail heatsink. However, I did lap the heatsink and cut the heatspreader off the CPU. Before I removed the heatspreader it was still stable at 2.5Ghz. Lapping the heatsink is far more important.

    I have used various 64-bit OSes, but they are not really ready yet, esp concerning drivers. Still the A64 is a much better 32-bit chip than the Athlon XP.
    Last edited by oralpain; 12-01-2004 at 05:31 AM.

  12. #27
    Joined
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    265

    Re: AMD64 + 32bitOS = A Waste of $$?

    Quote Originally Posted by jnuw
    Tazman, up until now everyone has put forth constructive information, bringing to light information I did not have about the A64s. Then you have to make a comment of a 12 year old. Everyone, even you at one point, did not know everything about the A64s. Were you "a[n] idiot or a salesman!"? Just wondering...

    To everyone else, thanks again for the information.
    Ever heard of a SOH? I heard ebay has them! Anywho. How wasen't it constructive? I compared to my old setup didn't i? Thats usually what people LIKE to know to compare to their own setup! =)
    DFI NF4 SLI-DR w/ 3700+ Sandy @ 2500+ mhz
    2x1gb g.skill Ram @ 250 mhz @ 2.5-3-2-0-1T
    XP-120 w/ YS-Tech 120 mm Fan
    X-Superalien Blue Aluminum Case
    BFG 7800GTX @ stock speeds!
    NEC 3500A 16X DVD-RW Drive
    Silverstone Zeus 650w PowerSupply!

  13. #28
    Joined
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    88

    Re: AMD64 + 32bitOS = A Waste of $$?

    A64 has more than an on die memory controller, but a more efficient instruction scheduler. Waste of money? That's utterly stupid, it's a brilliant 32bit chip which will get a speed boost when windows 64 is out which will only be next year, a chip brought this year is not really going to be that much out of date next year.....
    But the fact is that as a 32bit chip, it's an excellent competitor against the P4, and you'd have to be pretty stupid to call it a waste of money just because it has an extra feature the P4 does not.

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