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  1. #31
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    Dec 2000
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    5,051
    Theres another problem I should mention, its to do with the tier one providers and the NAPS. I may have mentioned this in another post but its most relevent to all broadband users.

    Several of the tier 1 providers have gone under and are awaiting to be bought out. This impacts the overall bandwidth for certain locations as there bandwidth is no longer available for use.

    The NAPS haven't been as aggressive with there upgrades to lines, I've spotted several big NAPS using OC 12 in areas they should've used OC 48 or higher. I know alot of the NAPS say that its too expensive to justify the upgrade, well I looked into it and found that the cost difference wasn't to high.

    The New York NAP a few weeks ago went down as it was overloaded, they had to reroute in order to avert angry corporate types.

  2. #32
    Joined
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    85
    uhhhh... be happy wif wat ever you have. I live down in Australia and do u know what plan i'm on? 64KB/s download and 32KB/s upload with a 3GB limit per month.. just be happy with what ever u have or i'm gonna kill u..
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  3. #33
    Joined
    Dec 2000
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    5,051
    Noobie its not my connection I'm worried about, its the fact if this keeps up everyone is going to pay for it. DNS servers that misque can really bugger things up all over the place.

  4. #34
    Joined
    May 2001
    Location
    Seattle Wa
    Posts
    147
    cable in my area is capped at 1.5/128. i can get that from dsl at the same price and 1.5/384 for just a bit more. i've got a 768/768 dsl connection now, and would only go to cable if every dsl isp decided to go to pppoe..

  5. #35
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    CA, USA
    Posts
    76
    Go DSL. I have cable and there are times it is slower than Oreo's snail!
    ONCE AN ULTIMATE GAMING MACHINE, MINUTES LATER OBSOLETE!!!!
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  6. #36
    Joined
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Canada
    Age
    39
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    714

    Wink I'm in Toronto....

    ....and I get cable from Roger@HOME for 39.95 / month. This includes modem rental (...because they still haven't released modems we're allowed to purchase).


    As for DSL, currently there is a deal with 'The Higher Technology' that charges roughly 29.95 / month. This is for a 1.3 Mbps down / 384kbps up. This does not include the price of the DSL modem, which has to be purchased separately for roughly $180.

    Bell also offers a DSL 1Mbps service, but it's the same price as cable ($39 / month), and is much slower than 'THT' DSL offering mentioned above.

    Finally, I was going to go wireless, but LOOK!'s highspeed service was cancelled. They were offering a 3Mbps down / 2Mbps up wireless connection for $39 / month. Roughly two weeks before I decided to switch, the service was cancelled. My theory is that the DSL and cable providers conspired with LOOK to get the service cancelled. Let's face it.... For the price, the wireless service could not be beat by any competitor, so I figure that Bell and Rogers got together and decided to pay LOOK some type of royalty fee to cancel the wireless service. When I asked why the service was cancelled, the LOOK! representative didn't even really know the correct answer, so that is what lead me to create the little conspiracy theory.



    CNS, A+, Network+, Server+
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  7. #37
    Joined
    May 2001
    Location
    Seattle Wa
    Posts
    147

    Re: I'm in Toronto....

    Originally posted by Soulstice
    ....and I get cable from Roger@HOME for 39.95 / month. This includes modem rental (...because they still haven't released modems we're allowed to purchase).


    As for DSL, currently there is a deal with 'The Higher Technology' that charges roughly 29.95 / month. This is for a 1.3 Mbps down / 384kbps up. This does not include the price of the DSL modem, which has to be purchased separately for roughly $180.

    Bell also offers a DSL 1Mbps service, but it's the same price as cable ($39 / month), and is much slower than 'THT' DSL offering mentioned above.

    Finally, I was going to go wireless, but LOOK!'s highspeed service was cancelled. They were offering a 3Mbps down / 2Mbps up wireless connection for $39 / month. Roughly two weeks before I decided to switch, the service was cancelled. My theory is that the DSL and cable providers conspired with LOOK to get the service cancelled. Let's face it.... For the price, the wireless service could not be beat by any competitor, so I figure that Bell and Rogers got together and decided to pay LOOK some type of royalty fee to cancel the wireless service. When I asked why the service was cancelled, the LOOK! representative didn't even really know the correct answer, so that is what lead me to create the little conspiracy theory.



    i bet you aren't far from the truth there.

  8. #38
    Joined
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    5,051
    Considering Rodgers and most of the telecommunications companies all have stake in wireless, the definetly would have made efforts to kill it.

  9. #39
    Joined
    Jun 2001
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    2,034
    OK, I just wanna clear up alot of misconceptions being passed all over the place here.

    the speeds on cable and DSL can vary like crazy so just getting dsl or cable is a hard to ask question.

    Cable is a non aysyncronase 1.5 mbs service usualy capped at 128 kbps upstream running at full speed. That's it, It does not go any faster than that. And it it shared bandwidth with your block. So that speed i quoted is so highly variable it's rediculas.

    DSL has many many many variations of service. Standard everyday service connections are going to be capable of 7 mbs downstream and 1 mbs upstream for ADSL. (the most popular residential) Your not going to get this speed unless you wanna pay for it. Industry standard ADSL packages is at 640 down 256 up right now for all residential ADSL services. Speed varies on type of DSL.

    Here are the main reasons for each kind

    ADSL can be authorized using DSLAM and PPPoE also run over a regular analog house telephone line. This is overhauled SDSL to act like DUN or RAS connections(dial up service). Faster than cable

    SDSL is syncronized DSL or Closed Circut DSL. Basically there is no authentication except for having the line set in by the telephone company and it's connection to the modem with knowledge of WAN IP blocks and usuable IP blocks. This is most like frame relay if you all know how that works. It is slower than ADSL but more reliable and still faster than cable can go. You can use routed-bridged or plain briged configurations with this service. Very nice but expensive and designed more for business use.

    IDSL haha.. this is basically dual channel ISDN service running over standard DSL protocals. can only go up to 192kbps and runs over standard relays, so you havta have an actual phone line for this service. Waaaay slower than cable but will work really far away from the phone companys CO

    now....

    VHDSL is developed and being implimented as of now.
    This type of dsl is insaine. It's 45 mbs down and 10 mbs up. Expensive but will blow anything anybody ever says about cable away.

    Remember though, you get what you are paying for. Like Partial frame relay they will control your badwidth with a type of switch at the ISP. If you want more you just pay more and they open more up without any physical changing of hardware. Also your capabilities for each service relyes on your distance from the CO, and CO's actual installed equipment.

    But the main thing to think about on these services is, what are you willing to pay for and what are you going to do with it. You can do anything you want with almost all dsl services. Host sites VPN into your house, have a FTP server. It doesn't matter, you have already payed for the bandwidth you get.
    Now with cable they don't quite have the same ideas about what you can do. You can basically play on the web as old man whitherspoon does with his raggety old P120. You are internal or like a bridged configuration with MAC and machine name authentication. That part of it is neat, except almost all cable providers filter incoming requests like port 80 for a website or port 21 for FTP or 53 for DNS and standard VPN ports so on and so on. Basically they almost put the firewall up for you. Reasons are because it is shared bandwidth and if you were doing that all day long, everybody would have to go slow. If they see you have a server running they will dump you since it will interviene with thier servers.

    So for 30-40 bucks a month, yes cable is open to be going faster than DSL. With a few more bucks you get so much more. I actually don't see the speeds in our location with @home service. Basically everybody has @home service with a different name like DSL everybody bascially has the Covad, Northpoint or the Bells with different names. I personally would rather have a 640 down and 256 up ADSL connection than cable. I think it runs alot better and it suites more of my needs. Don't take my word for it if you don't want to, read this.

    http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/ne...469873,00.html

    have fun all!!!

  10. #40
    Joined
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    5,051
    Dust thats just not true, your connection with the provider dosen't change, this is where cable differs. cable will vary in connection to its provider as it has to pass through all sections on its node in the local enviroment.

    The variance in speed is due to network traffic for an ADSL user, where the connection to provider and network traffic affect a cable user. Of course the cable users alone on a node will benefit from a faster connectin, but has to worry about more people and his ISP cutting bandwidth in an effort to cut costs.

    DSL services vary widely in the upstream segment, 128/256/512/640/1.0M are possible services you might be offered.

    Both Cable and DSL are by there nature Asychronous. But there not Asymetrical speeds. That is your download isn't the same as up load.

    This is due to using a common line between client and service, and the need to push the signal down to the customer and use the reflection to carry signal back upstream during the same push.

    As for which is better, I'd say check each service out and be aware that ADSL has lower bandwidth but is stable, while cable has higher bandwidth but is impacted by the sharing scheme used to operate it.

    Be very careful of zdnet, they tend to parriot what is told to them without checking the information themselves.

  11. #41
    Joined
    Jun 2001
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    2,034
    I think your just about saying what I was trying to say to some point. reguardless of nodes in the network enviroment, neither you nor I will be able to tell anybody if thiers is going to be good or not without knowing the config. My emphasis on my post that was too long was that xDSL with the exclusion of IDSL is capable of being faster than any cable service in the US. People were asking which is faster. I answered DSL is. You cannot tell me the technolodgy isn't, because it plainly 'is'

    Read back to where I posted about the 30-40 buck part saying your gonna get a faster connection through cable depending on your service. A few bucks MORE a month and you can match cable speed and top it off with doing whatever it is you want to by typical ISP actions.

    Sure you can look into your providers for the location and config to the north american backbone or IP Hub. But if you don't know which technolodgy is faster, your not going to know how to check for connection hops so on and so on through whatever number of nodes. Then look at what your trying to get to and calculate which one is faster. That's just obsurd for average people to be doing.

    Tell me which cable service does not filter ports for it's blocks since you say what i say is untrue. I know it could exist, just never seen it and would like to know. It is also true for xDSL services in some places but rarely done. If I or you, knew everything about every ISP's location configuration then we could say that, but you can't tell me @Home is great and you go 1 thousand miles away to a different city where it is terrible. So i refer to the first part of my post to where I start out implying this question on speed is a hard to ask question. I didn't even read that zdnet post, just seems nobody is willing to just believe anybody anymore so I gave a backup resource. If your talking about the zdnet report, I say again, I havn't really read much of it. Just something that said cable was slow and was a reputable source. I have worked in the ISP industry to where i acheaved my MCSE certifications and built ISP's that support all kinds of DSL. Worked with cable services quite a bit. Don't get me wrong I actually love the method of connection to the cable service. I just don't like everything else. I hate ADSL DUN DSLAM method, but i'd rather deal with dialing out each time my servers restart then use cable. I am currently a sdsl service user and an adsl service user. I love the sdsl setup and bridged configurations.

    So I guess tell me in which part of the original post where I said something that is untrue. If i'm wrong or said something wrong accidentally, i'll edit, if not, i'll back it up with outside/other posted information on the web concerning the matter.

  12. #42
    Joined
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    5,051
    Try, Cable is a non aysyncronase 1.5 mbs service .

    Broadband is asychronous, but not asymetrical.

    Enjoying Killing time?

    But please be careful of the legal comments, it can get people into different sorts of trouble.


  13. #43
    Joined
    Jun 2001
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    2,034
    OH sorry bryan, you know everything. Boy it's funny how I said that it's specifically not a asyncronous technolodgy but the part after that, read it again. But boy it's also funny how CABLE IS A CAPPED SERVICE. you almost always get 128kbps upload. almost every dsl package has better then that at 256. Your just saying all this cuz you have cable hu. You have a capped 128kbps cable connection too don't you.

    And to your other insaine untrue believes,
    Do you really believe that under any court in the world you are going to convince the jury you have the right to scan my systems for open ports? DO YOU??? I mean c-mon. LOGIC man,....... Logic!

  14. #44
    Joined
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Home
    Posts
    6,884
    Originally posted by DustSmoke
    And to your other insaine untrue believes,
    Do you really believe that under any court in the world you are going to convince the jury you have the right to scan my systems for open ports? DO YOU??? I mean c-mon. LOGIC man,....... Logic!
    DOH! And here's where the argument fails. Not that it's your fault, Dustsmoke, but since when did LOGIC have anything to do with LAW? Yeah, I'm partially poking fun, but in all seriousness logic and law do not always agree. Until something is truly written as law it doens't matter how much logic is behind it. Without being hard coded into law, you're left trying to make a case by applying prior precedent.

    So yes, I agree with your thoughts, but law and logic are not one and the same.

  15. #45
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    CA, USA
    Posts
    76
    Proof is in the pudding!!!! I have cable, and it's slower than the grass growing in front of my house! My friend with DSL can download faster than I and connect better!

    It's my opinion, its all relative to proximity to provider (for dsl) and amount of usage (for cable).

    To provide a comparison, I think my cable is slower than a 28.8k modem! I have to ask myself, why pay $39.99 per month for this #$#%#^#%!!!!?????
    ONCE AN ULTIMATE GAMING MACHINE, MINUTES LATER OBSOLETE!!!!
    Thunderbird 1.2gC 266 FSB
    MSI K7 MASTER
    Crucial 512meg 2100 DDR RAM
    Viewsonic PF790
    SB Audigy Platinum
    Windows XP
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    Plextor 24x CDRW (it absolutely rocks!)
    Hollywood Plus DVD Decoder
    WD 30g ATA100
    VisionTek GEForce 3 Ti500
    Enermax EG365P-VE FC
    3Com 3CR990-TX-97 NIC with 3XP processor
    Taisol Heatsink w/Sunon fan, copper shim & Artic Silver II

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