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  1. #61
    Joined
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    2,943

    Re: Need headphone recommendations

    Well, no, I don't know someone who is good with electronics. But perhaps I'm good enough? Hmm...

  2. #62
    Joined
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    4

    Re: Need headphone recommendations

    I am very happy to be on a forum with so many people who are free from the most of the bs on headfi and are critical of completely subjective information.

    I admit I have been reading way too much headfi recently because I do not know of any other audio forum that is less subjective and biased (except for this one, but it is not exactly the size of headfi). I do not agree with many of the commonly held beliefs there like burn-in, audiophile cables, etc. However, I cannot make up my mind on amplifiers. I have a pair of senn HD580, with no amp connected to Chaintech AV710 high sampling mode. I am satisfied with the volume. I'm tempted to buy an amplifier, because it is completely unanimous on headfi that Senn HD580 need an amplifier. What benefits would a dedicated amplifier provide? Have there been any objective tests done? I am considering a Headsave Home/classic or a Rega Ear.
    Last edited by superlyduper; 01-07-2005 at 02:07 AM.

  3. #63
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    210

    Re: Need headphone recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by superlyduper
    I am very happy to be on a forum with so many people who are free from the most of the bs on headfi and are critical of completely subjective information.

    I admit I have been reading way too much headfi recently because I do not know of any other audio forum that is less subjective and biased (except for this one, but it is not exactly the size of headfi). I do not agree with many of the commonly held beliefs there like burn-in, audiophile cables, etc. However, I cannot make up my mind on amplifiers. I have a pair of senn HD580, with no amp connected to Chaintech AV710 high sampling mode. I am satisfied with the volume. I'm tempted to buy an amplifier, because it is completely unanimous on headfi that Senn HD580 need an amplifier. What benefits would a dedicated amplifier provide? Have there been any objective tests done? I am considering a Headsave Home/classic or a Rega Ear.
    Run a RMAA loopback test, with the HD580 connected in parallel, to find out if your card has any specific non-linear characteristics into the given load. Ideally, you want to have a multi point THD analysis, for example at 20Hz, 1kHz, 10Khz and 20kHz. However, I think that RMAA(last version I used) liimits your choice to well under 10kHz. The main purpose of the high frequency analysis is to ensure that no slew induced problems are present.

    -Chris
    Last edited by MadWolfZX; 01-07-2005 at 03:30 AM.

  4. #64
    Joined
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Palm Springs, Ca
    Posts
    509

    Re: Need headphone recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by MadWolfZX
    Run a RMAA loopback test, with the HD580 connected in parallel, to find out if your card has any specific non-linear characteristics into the given load. Ideally, you want to have a multi point THD analysis, for example at 20Hz, 1kHz, 10Khz and 20kHz. However, I think that RMAA(last version I used) liimits your choice to well under 10kHz. The main purpose of the high frequency analysis is to ensure that no slew induced problems are present.

    -Chris
    WOW this is good stuff, I have no idea what you said. LOL.. Can I use this on my neighbor. He is always asking me questions I can't anwere? I mean it this is great........I can't stop laughing..

  5. #65
    Joined
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Dundee, United Kingdom
    Age
    36
    Posts
    654

    Re: Need headphone recommendations

    In short, if you are using a DMX Fire 6 card, with the front panel , you dont need to buy a separate amplifier, because the front panel has a headphone amp too, but you do notice difference with good amplifiers on these high impedence high headphones. I recently got built one for my Senn HD600 which are the same as your HD580s.
    -------------------------------------------
    king

  6. #66
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    210

    Re: Need headphone recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by sdgserv
    WOW this is good stuff, I have no idea what you said. LOL.. Can I use this on my neighbor. He is always asking me questions I can't anwere? I mean it this is great........I can't stop laughing..
    Let me make it clear...

    Run a RMAA

    RMAA=Right Mark Audio Analyser: A popular freeware program for some basis signal measurements( http://www.rightmark.org )

    loopback test


    Loop the analog external output from the soundcard to the analog input to the soundcard using a cable....

    , with the HD580 connected in parallel


    Exactly as it sounds. HD580 headphone connected in parallel with the circuit so that is it loading the output device(s).

    to find out if your card has any specific non-linear characteristics into the given load
    .

    Non-linear characteristics, as in reference to electrical signal performance. Specifically frequency response and harmonic distortion vs. frequency in this case.

    Ideally, you want to have a multi point THD analysis, for example at 20Hz, 1kHz, 10Khz and 20kHz.


    Multi-point, as in mulitiple data points. Measure several primary frequency point and the resultant harmonic produced by each one. This is to ensure the card is behaving identically across the frequency range of interest.

    However, I think that RMAA(last version I used) liimits your choice to well under 10kHz.

    The last time I checked RMAA, it did not allow a selecatble frequency to analyse THD over about 7 or 8KHz, according to my memory.

    The main purpose of the high frequency analysis is to ensure that no slew induced problems are present.

    Low distortion numbers at lower frequencies, but rapidly climbing distortion as frequency rises is commonly evidence of slew distortion. Slew rate is the rate at which an electrical stage can respond to a specific voltage within a given time frame. When the calculated max. slew rate for a given voltage is exceeded distortion products increase rapidly. Analysis of high freuquencies is important because not knowing the specific output amplification devices, used, we have to confirm the device is sufficient(was intended for a headphone with this high impedance). A standardized 1kHz THD analysis, for example, would not reveal slew limited circumstances within a given/intended application at a specific voltage output, but at higher frequencies which the slew distortion would emerge, THD would rise rapidly. The high impedance HD580 is far more likley to reach a point of slew limited distortion with output devices since a higher impedance requires a higher voltage input to achieve a given SPL.

    -Chris

  7. #67
    Joined
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    2,943

    Re: Need headphone recommendations

    Nice explanation, but still got a little lost at the end there!

    Is there any way to amplify this interally to avoid an external device? Does an Audigy 2 ZS with the front 5 1/4" bay controls provide a better amplified port for a headphone?

  8. #68
    Joined
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Age
    33
    Posts
    20,454

    Re: Need headphone recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by randy989
    I just thought about this again. Aren't there a great deal of people here who PREFER headphones over speakers for music and games? If so you'd imagine they were getting bass out of them comparable to a speaker system.
    Yes, and I'm one of them, but the fact of the matter is that a headphone can't shake the room like a sub can, no matter how advanced it is.
    PORTABLE: Intel Core 2 Duo P8600 2.4GHz | 4GB PC6400 DDR2 | 160GB 7200rpm HDD | ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4570 | 8x DVD±RW/Blu-Ray | 15.6" UltraSharp TrueLife display

  9. #69
    Joined
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    4

    Re: Need headphone recommendations

    sorry, I still dont understand this part. Do I use a male-male mini cable to loop speaker-out to line-in, but then where do the headphones go

    Quote Originally Posted by MadWolfZX
    Let me make it clear...



    loopback test


    Loop the analog external output from the soundcard to the analog input to the soundcard using a cable....

    , with the HD580 connected in parallel


    Exactly as it sounds. HD580 headphone connected in parallel with the circuit so that is it loading the output device(s).

    to find out if your card has any specific non-linear characteristics into the given load
    .

  10. #70
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    210

    Re: Need headphone recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by superlyduper
    sorry, I still dont understand this part. Do I use a male-male mini cable to loop speaker-out to line-in, but then where do the headphones go
    Purchase a stereo male to female Y adapter. Plug the male-male patch to one output and the headphone to the other.

    -Chris

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