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  1. #1
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    Greenspan: Budget Deficits Pose Big Threat

    http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...i_ge/greenspan


    Looks like Greenspan is trying to send a message to Capitol Hill. At the current rate of spending and borrowing, our children and grandchildren will be paying this national debt off.
    Main Rig (BOINC Rig #1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Abbey
    A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.

  2. #2
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    Re: Greenspan: Budget Deficits Pose Big Threat

    This wouldn't by any chance be the same person the democrats called "one of the biggest political hacks we have here in Washington" when he came out and supported private SS accounts would it?
    Last edited by clement; 03-11-2005 at 01:46 AM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Greenspan: Budget Deficits Pose Big Threat

    Yes Clement,

    Every Democrat shares the same consciousness and they all think exactly the same way. Did you have a point with what his thoughts are about the deficit or did you just want to complain about 1 of the 2 real political parties in this country? I've been complaining about the deficit that we have now for ages. Hopefully the conservatives in this country will stop pandering to the religious right and get back to running the country properly soon.

  4. #4
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    Re: Greenspan: Budget Deficits Pose Big Threat

    Yea yea yeah...... and just the other day Greenspan was saying how great the economy is doing and how the Bush tax cuts were a big factor in our economic growth and removal of the clinton recession. He also said the increased revenues from more business has cut the deficit by over $100b.

  5. #5
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    Thumbs down Re: Greenspan: Budget Deficits Pose Big Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew LB
    Yea yea yeah...... and just the other day Greenspan was saying how great the economy is doing and how the Bush tax cuts were a big factor in our economic growth and removal of the clinton recession. He also said the increased revenues from more business has cut the deficit by over $100b.
    You have no source for any of this and your "clinton recession" statement simply shows your ignorance. Even if businesses have increased revenue (due to to the dollar's decline) and reduced the deficit, the cost of Afghanistan and Iraq will eliminate all of that.

    Extending all of the expiring tax cuts add about $1.8 trillion to the federal debt over 10 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office. That would come on top of a rapid escalation in the federal debt from $3.4 trillion to $4.3 trillion as a result of soaring annual deficits since 2001.
    Making all of those tax cuts permanent, as Mr. Bush wants, would add about $1.8 trillion to the federal debt over 10 years, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says.
    But Mr. Greenspan stood firm, contending that the "overriding" principle was to reduce the deficit and that Congress should find ways to pay for the cost of making the tax cuts permanent.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/03/po...&ex=1110690000

  6. #6
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    Re: Greenspan: Budget Deficits Pose Big Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by fireman_x
    You have no source for any of this and your "clinton recession" statement simply shows your ignorance. Even if businesses have increased revenue (due to to the dollar's decline) and reduced the deficit, the cost of Afghanistan and Iraq will eliminate all of that.
    I've proven the Clinton recession about 100 times on this forum remember?

    The economic downturn began long before Bush was even the presidential nominee for the Republican party in early 2000 and we it continued to go down the drain during his first three quarters in office.... ALL while we were ON THE CLINTON BUDGET. The first Bush budget didn't go into effect till October of 2001.

    http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/newsrel/gdp_glance.htm (shows the negative economic growth)

    http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/graphics/lns...0530018329.gif (shows the months of recession)

    Now sit down and go read some books.
    Last edited by Vihsadas; 03-11-2005 at 03:57 AM.

  7. #7
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    Thumbs down Re: Greenspan: Budget Deficits Pose Big Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew LB
    I've proven the Clinton recession about 100 times on this forum remember?

    The economic downturn began long before Bush was even the presidential nominee for the Republican party in early 2000 and we it continued to go down the drain during his first three quarters in office.... ALL while we were ON THE CLINTON BUDGET. The first Bush budget didn't go into effect till October of 2001.

    http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/newsrel/gdp_glance.htm (shows the negative economic growth)

    http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/graphics/lns...0530018329.gif (shows the months of recession)

    Now sit down and go read some books
    Presidents do not control the economy. <edit>
    Last edited by Vihsadas; 03-11-2005 at 04:01 AM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Greenspan: Budget Deficits Pose Big Threat

    play nice

  9. #9
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    Re: Greenspan: Budget Deficits Pose Big Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by afalzone
    Yes Clement,

    Every Democrat shares the same consciousness and they all think exactly the same way. Did you have a point with what his thoughts are about the deficit or did you just want to complain about 1 of the 2 real political parties in this country? I've been complaining about the deficit that we have now for ages. Hopefully the conservatives in this country will stop pandering to the religious right and get back to running the country properly soon.
    This was a quote from the democratic minority leader, about the only way you could get any where near closer to an endorsement of the party is if you got the Dean's scream of approval.

    I'm just confused, you say this man doesn't know anything and shouldn't be listened to when he says we need to privatize SS, but then I see this.........I don't know what to believe anymore . I'm just the kind of person that pulls out the PETA checklist every time I see a seal being clubbed remember?

    *cough*

    I'll gladly say Bush needs to spend less if you say we need to take steps to get rid of SS.
    Last edited by clement; 03-11-2005 at 12:16 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Greenspan: Budget Deficits Pose Big Threat

    Well the opinion of the minority leader, much like the opinion of the majority leader, is just the opinion of that person. Not everyone in a political party agrees. In many cases, such as with many vocal people here, the opinion of the person is the same as that of the party as they are close minded people who take on whatever opinions are fed to them. In most cases though people make up their own minds. There are obvious differences between say a religious conservative and a true conservative. One wants a Christian nation and one wants a balanced budget with a effective government no larger than it needs to be. My point was that there is not one opinion for any one group.

    Getting rid of social security wouldn't solve anything. All you would do is push large ranks of seniors onto another government program that they haven't been paying into during their working lives. You would end up with the same costs as the existing system, but without the revenue that the government needs to support it. Bush needs to stop spending. Even from before 9/11, he was a big spender so it can't be blamed on 9/11 and the wars. The last time I checked he wasn't exactly frugal in his endeavors on his private business life.

    Andrew,

    You have never proven any Clinton recession. What exact things did he do to tank the economy? I watch plenty of news shows and read lots of articles as well as magazines like The Economist and the only person who has ever mentioned the 'Clinton recession' is you.

  11. #11
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    Re: Greenspan: Budget Deficits Pose Big Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by fireman_x
    Presidents do not control the economy. <edit>

    Oh.... but it did when we had the huge boom in the 90's right?


    FYI, presidential policy (budgets which include tax cuts) as well as the Federal Reserve Chairman are large contributers to economic growth.


    What exact things did he do to tank the economy?
    Raised taxes on small businesses a lot. Passed laws which hurt businesses. Made economic policy which businesses took advantage of to outsource jobs overseas.


    ECONOMIC DATA CONFIRMS SLOWDOWN BEGAN UNDER CLINTON

    Economic Statistics Confirm U.S. Economy Was Shrinking While Clinton Was In Office. “America went into recession long before the terrorist attacks of September 11th. … The new figures suggest … that the economy grew more slowly in … 2000 than was previously thought: GDP rose by 3.8% (compared with last year’s estimate of 4.1% and an initial figure of 5%).” (“Unwelcome Numbers,” The Economist, 8/3/02)

    Market Indicators Confirm Recession Started On Clinton’s Watch. According to the Council of Economic Advisors, “it was widely recognized that the economy was weak coming into 2001.”

    * The NASDAQ peaked on March 10, 2000;

    * The S&P 500 peaked on March 24, 2000;

    * The Dow Jones peaked on January 14, 2000;

    * Manufacturing employment started falling in August 2000;

    * Industrial production started falling in July 2000; and

    * Manufacturing trade and sales started falling in April 2000.

    (Council Of Economic Advisors, Talking Points, 9/20/02)

    Congress’ Joint Economic Committee Says Signs Of Economic Slowdown Were Apparent In Mid 2000. “By mid-year 2000 … signs of an economic slowdown began to proliferate; it became apparent that an economic slowdown was underway. A number of key economic and financial indicators provided evidence of such slower growth and suggested that future growth could weaken. A brief summary of important elements of this evidence, for example, would include the following:

    * Real GDP slowed from a robust 5.6 percent annualized growth rate in the second quarter of 2000 to 2.2 percent and 1.0 percent in the third and fourth quarters, respectively, before rebounding modestly to 1.2% in the first quarter of 2001.

    * Key components of GDP such as real consumption expenditures slowed after mid-year as real income growth moderated, stock market values fell, employment gains lessened, and consumer confidence stalled and then deteriorated. Movements in retail sales generally corroborated these developments.

    * Gross private investment also contributed significantly to this general slowdown with most key investment categories registering actual declines by the fourth quarter and advances of non-defense capital goods (ex-aircraft and parts) orders falling sharply after mid-year (on a year-over-year basis).

    * The index of leading indicators trended down after January 2000.

    * Employment advances slowed dramatically after mid-year. Gains in total non-farm payrolls, for example, averaged about 256,000 per month for the 2 1/2 years prior to mid-year 2000 and 44,000 per month after mid-year 2000. The average workweek also decreased after mid-year.

    * The manufacturing sector also has weakened significantly since mid-year 2000. Industrial production, capacity utilization, the Natural Association of Purchasing Managers index, as well as manufacturing employment and workweek have all registered significant declines since mid-year 2000.

    * Financial equity markets began to deteriorate about mid-year 2000 as well.

    In short, there can be little doubt that a significant economic slowdown or retrenchment began about mid-year 2000 in the last quarters of the Clinton Administration.” (“Assessment Of The Current Economic Environment,” United States Congress Joint Economic Committee, 7/01)

    Clinton’s Chairman Of Council Of Economic Advisors, Joseph Stiglitz, Said Recession Started During Clinton’s Tenure. “It would be nice for us veterans of the Clinton Administration if we could simply blame mismanagement by President George W. Bush’s economic team for this seemingly sudden turnaround in the economy, which coincided so closely with its taking charge. But … the economy was slipping into recession even before Bush took office, and the corporate scandals that are rocking America began much earlier.” (Joseph Stiglitz, “The Roaring Nineties,” The Atlantic Monthly, 10/02)

    Stiglitz noted that during the Clinton Administration “the groundwork for some of the problems we are now experiencing was being laid. Accounting standards slipped; deregulation was taken further than it should have been; and corporate greed was pandered to ….” (Joseph Stiglitz, “The Roaring Nineties,” The Atlantic Monthly, 10/02)

    Clinton Administration Grossly Overestimated Strength Of The Economy. “Hidden in the morass of statistics, there is proof that the Clinton administration grossly overestimated the strength of the economy leading up to the 2000 election. Did the federal government join Enron and WorldCom in cooking the books? … Most startling, the Commerce Department in 2000 showed the economy on an upswing through most of the election year, while in fact it was declining.” (Robert Novak, Op-Ed, “Sunny Clinton Forecast Leaves Cloud Over Bush,” Chicago Sun-Times, 8/8/02)

    Drop In Investments In First Half Of 2000 Contributed To Recession. “A plunge in investment that began in the last half of 2000, along with the declines in equity markets, was an important force in the recession.” (Council Of Economic Advisers, “Strengthening America’s Economy: The President’s Jobs And Growth Proposals,” 1/7/03)

  12. #12
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    Re: Greenspan: Budget Deficits Pose Big Threat

    He put policies in place to promote trade and is regarded as having done a good job, in so far as a president can, in managing the economy. Nobody said that he wasn't in office when a recession started, but you're making it seem like it was entirely his fault. Perhaps its sour grapes because he ended up doing a good job during his presidency even when people were trying to throw him out of office.

  13. #13
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    Re: Greenspan: Budget Deficits Pose Big Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew LB
    Oh.... but it did when we had the huge boom in the 90's right?
    The tech boom had nothing to do with the president, I hope you have some kleenex ready when the housing market bubble pops and you can blame it on Bush.

    I already explained how higher business revenues are attributred to the falling dollar. That is something that even the Fed can't control but you try and credit Bush for it anyways.

    FYI, presidential policy (budgets which include tax cuts) as well as the Federal Reserve Chairman are large contributers to economic growth.
    I've had six econ courses, I know how the economy works, you've had none, and you get your info from right-wing political sites, that says enough for your ignorance on economic matters. Also incase you didn't know the Fed Chairman does not have to listen to the President as is the case in other countries.

  14. #14
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    Re: Greenspan: Budget Deficits Pose Big Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by fireman_x
    The tech boom had nothing to do with the president, I hope you have some kleenex ready when the housing market bubble pops and you can blame it on Bush.

    I already explained how higher business revenues are attributred to the falling dollar. That is something that even the Fed can't control but you try and credit Bush for it anyways.



    I've had six econ courses, I know how the economy works, you've had none, and you get your info from right-wing political sites, that says enough for your ignorance on economic matters. Also incase you didn't know the Fed Chairman does not have to listen to the President as is the case in other countries.
    I agree, and have ALWAYS said (and you can look it up here) that the President of the US can not run the economy, however in some instances the government (meaning the executive and legislative branches) can effect businesses for a short term, ie regulated industry tends to react very quickly to what the government does in their segment, sometimes if the reaction is big enough other sectors follow. The fed chairman has even less impact on the economy. Forget about economic courses, I run a pretty good sized business business, you get a better picture of how it works outside the classroom, but for the most part what you state is very true.




  15. #15
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    Re: Greenspan: Budget Deficits Pose Big Threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1
    I agree, and have ALWAYS said (and you can look it up here) that the President of the US can not run the economy, however in some instances the government (meaning the executive and legislative branches) can effect businesses for a short term, ie regulated industry tends to react very quickly to what the government does in their segment, sometimes if the reaction is big enough other sectors follow. The fed chairman has even less impact on the economy. Forget about economic courses, I run a pretty good sized business business, you get a better picture of how it works outside the classroom, but for the most part what you state is very true.
    I have debated on other forums the accuracy of various economic theories and the outcome of their success in the real world. Some economic theories are a bit far fetched which is why you have divisions among Economists (ex. Monetarists and Keynesians), but most seem to hold which is why their are perceived to be relevent to the business world.

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