View Poll Results: Do you support this legislation?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, saying the pledge should be a priority

    3 11.54%
  • Yes, but let's tackle more important issues first

    8 30.77%
  • Doesn't matter to me one way or the other

    2 7.69%
  • No, I don't want my child to be programmed

    8 30.77%
  • There are schools that don't already recite the pledge???

    5 19.23%
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  1. #1
    Joined
    May 2004
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    987

    Bill Requiring Pledge Of Allegiance In School Passes

    I stole this story from http://www.clickondetroit.com/educat...59/detail.html

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.wdiv.com
    Some School Officials Say Decision Should Be Left To Schools



    POSTED: 1:43 pm EST March 15, 2005


    LANSING, Mich. -- Public schools would be required to set aside time each day for students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance under a bill unanimously approved Tuesday by the state Senate.



    PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE



    'Under God' Out Of Pledge?
    Changes To Pledge
    U.S. Flag Through History
    Text Of Pledge Of Allegiance
    Senate Resolution On Pledge
    Print A Flag




    The legislation says students couldn't be forced to say the pledge if they or their parents objected.

    The bill passed the Senate on a 36-0 vote. Sen. Martha Scott, D-Highland Park, and Sen. Valde Garcia, R-Howell, were absent and didn't vote. The bill now goes to the House.

    Many schoolchildren in Michigan already recite the pledge, but some schools and teachers don't make time for it, said Republican Sen. Patricia Birkholz of Saugatuck, who sponsored the bill.

    "It's very important that our schoolchildren have time to remember what our country is built on," she said. "It's less than a 30-second reminder every day."

    Birkholz said veterans' groups and other nonprofit agencies are prepared to donate flags to classrooms that don't have them.

    Some school officials have said the matter should be left up to schools, not required by the Legislature.

    Similar legislation passed the Senate last session but died after the House amended it to let schools offer one of the following each school day: the pledge to the U.S. or Michigan flags, preamble to the U.S. Constitution, Bill of Rights, Gettysburg Address, Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech or any of the Federalist papers.
    Personally, and I know many will be offended that I feel this way, I think there are much worse problems to worry about. Here we have groups willing to donate flags to schools that don't have them but wouldn't donate a book. While I think it's a good "ideal" to have every student recite the pledge daily, I think there are some real issues we need to tackle first and then get back to this.

    What do you think?

  2. #2
    Joined
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    8,887

    Re: Bill Requiring Pledge Of Allegiance In School Passes

    "Remind our children of what our country is built on"

    Right, like compulsion? I forgot that volition is what those damn communists like to talk about. We God-fearing Americans don't want us none of that there "violition" stuff. Chalk another one up for the "conservative" Republicans in power today. Waste your time on other things, rather than this tripe. I'm tired of these asinine "conservatives" legislating such utter nonsense and authoritarian garbage. Had I a child in Michigan, my ass would be in court tomorrow protesting this crap. You're really going to teach children to respect their country with this forced crap. Why not teach them history and let them make up their own minds? Oh, that's right, critical thought is evil and liberally indoctrinating.
    Last edited by Orangutan; 03-15-2005 at 07:04 PM.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  3. #3
    Joined
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    3,362

    Re: Bill Requiring Pledge Of Allegiance In School Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    "Remind our children of what our country is built on"

    Right, like compulsion? I forgot that volition is what those damn communists like to talk about. We God-fearing Americans don't want us none of that there "violition" stuff. Chalk another one up for the "conservative" Republicans in power today. Waste your time on other things, rather than this tripe. I'm tired of these asinine "conservatives" legislating such utter nonsense and authoritarian garbage. Had I a child in Michigan, my ass would be in court tomorrow protesting this crap. You're really going to teach children to respect their country with this forced crap. Why not teach them history and let them make up their own minds? Oh, that's right, critical thought is evil and liberally indoctrinating.
    I voted yes, but let's tackle more important issues now. I don't think reciting the Pledge of Allegiance or pride in one's nation is tripe. When I went to school we said it, I did not feel forced into anything, teach them history and let them decide to what? hate or love their country? IMO if you had a child I would love to see your ass in another country.




  4. #4
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    8,887

    Re: Bill Requiring Pledge Of Allegiance In School Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1
    I voted yes, but let's tackle more important issues now. I don't think reciting the Pledge of Allegiance or pride in one's nation is tripe. When I went to school we said it, I did not feel forced into anything, teach them history and let them decide to what? hate or love their country? IMO if you had a child I would love to see your ass in another country.
    Why is that so often the response of those on the Right? "Go to another country and (insert action here)." I don't get that mindset. Do you gain any sort of insight into why your country is "great" through compulsary activity? Fine, you said the Pledge in school; so did I. However, this bill requires schools to "set aside time for the Pledge of Allegiance". I've already outlined why the pledge is tripe, and I notice that no one has addressed those points. And what's so wrong about teaching children to think for themselves and make their own decisions? Are you that worried that people will not blindly follow the Pied Piper of Patriotism? Is school simply about teaching children what to believe rather than teaching them how to create their own beliefs? I was under the impression that education is to serve the interests of the learner. The "liberal arts" are designed to liberate people from oppression and ignorance. Forcing learners to recite some pledge does not fit into that ethos.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  5. #5
    Joined
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    3,362

    Re: Bill Requiring Pledge Of Allegiance In School Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    Why is that so often the response of those on the Right? "Go to another country and (insert action here)." I don't get that mindset. Do you gain any sort of insight into why your country is "great" through compulsary activity? Fine, you said the Pledge in school; so did I. However, this bill requires schools to "set aside time for the Pledge of Allegiance". I've already outlined why the pledge is tripe, and I notice that no one has addressed those points. And what's so wrong about teaching children to think for themselves and make their own decisions? Are you that worried that people will not blindly follow the Pied Piper of Patriotism? Is school simply about teaching children what to believe rather than teaching them how to create their own beliefs? I was under the impression that education is to serve the interests of the learner. The "liberal arts" are designed to liberate people from oppression and ignorance. Forcing learners to recite some pledge does not fit into that ethos.
    Good, it should be said, h3ll people should also know the National Anthem by heart as well. It's pitiful when someone who becomes a citizen in this country through naturalization goes and hangs up a flag, says the pledge of allegiance, as well as sings (knowing the words) the National anthem, afterall they have endured real hardships compared to this country's whining elite. The left always complains over this, they don't acknowledge in the least how those on the right are "forced" to pay for abortions, and entitlement programs or if they want creationism taught in schools as well (what about letting those taught decide on this), lets not forget our a good portion of our wonderful teachers pushing the politics of the left in schools, but GOD forbid if the left has to recite the allegiance. As I stated before, IMO, if one gets their panties in a twist over the Allegiance go to a country then you need not worry about it.




  6. #6
    Joined
    Oct 2003
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    8,887

    Re: Bill Requiring Pledge Of Allegiance In School Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1
    Good, it should be said, h3ll people should also know the National Anthem by heart as well. It's pitiful when someone who becomes a citizen in this country through naturalization goes and hangs up a flag, says the pledge of allegiance, as well as sings (knowing the words) the National anthem, afterall they have endured real hardships compared to this country's whining elite. The left always complains over this, they don't acknowledge in the least how those on the right are "forced" to pay for abortions, and entitlement programs or if they want creationism taught in schools as well (what about letting those taught decide on this), lets not forget our a good portion of our wonderful teachers pushing the politics of the left in schools, but GOD forbid if the left has to recite the allegiance. As I stated before, IMO, if one gets their panties in a twist over the Allegiance go to a country then you need not worry about it.
    Right, so how is any of that applicable to the situation at hand? I don't see anything valuable to this debate in the least. I do see the regular label-slinging and less-than-subtle insinuations, though. Now, would you actually like to address what I said or continue ranting?
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  7. #7
    Joined
    May 2002
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    Twain Harte, CA
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    20,453

    Re: Bill Requiring Pledge Of Allegiance In School Passes

    unanimously approved Tuesday by the state Senate.
    Yah, Orang, them's all conservative Repugs...

  8. #8
    Joined
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    Central NJ
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    11,090

    Re: Bill Requiring Pledge Of Allegiance In School Passes

    hmm... yes, im all for recognizing the great US of A.. but honestly.. its not working for me. Im a junior in a high-school where the pledge is recited by the whole school at a preset time (i.e. teachers dont do it themselves) and to be honest.. its just this mindless "now stand for the pledge...i pledge a blah blah blah blah.. i'm not even sure i could recite it right now.. i would need to stand up with my whole class and mindless recite some bable a few times before the words really filtered throught. when you've been saying it since before you knew what America really meant its kind of hard to think of it as anything other than a stupid routine


    Trust me, I do science
    My Hardware, Past and Present

  9. #9
    Joined
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    Age
    32
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    6,438

    Re: Bill Requiring Pledge Of Allegiance In School Passes

    So under god was taken out? If so I see no prob what so ever with setting aside time for it.

  10. #10
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    8,887

    Re: Bill Requiring Pledge Of Allegiance In School Passes

    Get rid of the "Under God", change it so that you pledge allegiance to the Constitution, and make it voluntary where people don't even have to stand, and I won't oppose it.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  11. #11
    Joined
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    2,701

    Re: Bill Requiring Pledge Of Allegiance In School Passes

    "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    Hmmmm........
    So, does this mean Michigan, believing in liberty and justice for all as they do, is going to be the next state to accept same-sex marriage? Or, is it going to be more of
    "Baaa, baaa, black sheep, have you any wool?
    Yes, sir, yes, sir, three bags full"...
    What the genteel demand is something of themselves. What the vulgar demand is something of others.
    The true church is one's own heart.
    It has been my experience that those who proclaim the world is going to hell in a handbasket are the same ones who are leading the way there with their grip fixed firmly on the handle.
    Why can't you find god? Everyone knows he lives in a little black box.
    A carp who deals in red herrings is a traitor to his species.


  12. #12
    Joined
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    Peoples Republic of Kalifornia
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    14,684

    Re: Bill Requiring Pledge Of Allegiance In School Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert3
    "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    Hmmmm........
    So, does this mean Michigan, believing in liberty and justice for all as they do, is going to be the next state to accept same-sex marriage? Or, is it going to be more of
    "Baaa, baaa, black sheep, have you any wool?
    Yes, sir, yes, sir, three bags full"...
    So by your understanding.... liberty and justice for "all" men who like to bang 15 year old consenting girls should be allowed. Or liberty to have 10 wives and have dozens of kids on the taxpayers welfare system should be allowed as well?

  13. #13
    Joined
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    village of idiots
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    Re: Bill Requiring Pledge Of Allegiance In School Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew LB
    So by your understanding.... liberty and justice for "all" men who like to bang 15 year old consenting girls should be allowed. Or liberty to have 10 wives and have dozens of kids on the taxpayers welfare system should be allowed as well?

    i believe that is the translation if played backwards.

    "
    ..."lluf sgab eerht ,ris ,sey ,ris ,seY
    ?loow yna uoy evah ,peehs kcalb ,aaab ,aaaB"
    fo erom eb ot gniog ti si ,rO ?egairram xes-emas tpecca ot etats txen eht eb ot gniog si ,od yeht sa lla rof ecitsuj dna ytrebil ni gniveileb ,nagihciM naem siht seod ,oS
    ........mmmmH
    ".lla rof ecitsuj dna ytrebil htiw ,elbisividni ,doG rednu noitan eno ,sdnats ti hcihw rof cilbupeR eht ot dna ,aciremA fo setatS detinU eht fo galF eht ot ecnaigella egdelp I""

    bb

  14. #14
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    11 Dimensional Space-Time
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    7,808

    Re: Bill Requiring Pledge Of Allegiance In School Passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar
    Yah, Orang, them's all conservative Repugs...
    I guess MI state democratic senators aren't "real dems"!

  15. #15
    Joined
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    Location
    Charleston, SC
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    3,870

    Re: Bill Requiring Pledge Of Allegiance In School Passes

    Remind our children of what our country is built on?

    Is it built on our right to be forced to do trivial tasks that I deem unneeded and a waste of time?


    Because I have to say it in my first class, and thats what I see it as. The school exercising their power over us in one more way, every single day.

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