Trip To Chaintech

[UncleBob]

OK, enough of Uncle Bob's aquarium adventure, right? Well, just understand, I had been yearning to see the Monterey Bay Aquarium for many years, so my wish was complete. After a nice stroll around
Cannery Row and a dinner, we called it a day and headed for the hotel. (No I won't tell you what happened after that!)

The next morning, we headed north for Chaintech! I really didn't know what to expect. I knew from speaking with several of the personnel, that they were looking forward to meeting me, and I'd bet they didn't know what to expect either!
Their office, in and of itself is nothing exciting. No glitz and wasted fancy stuff here:
Click on any of the pics to open in another window at full size.


After we all got aquatinted, I took a couple of candid shots. Here is Jimmy, who is the fella who tests new equipment, defective equipment and helps with your RMA's.



This is Brennan who runs the product testing and repairs. You want it replaced? Brennan's your man!



The bright voice on the phone when you call is Ruby. There isn't much Ruby doesn't do!



Brennan let me take a peek in part of the warehouse!



I got Kathy, the CEO to take my picture with Brennan but no way would she let me take her pic! Maybe next time, huh? Yup, that's your old ugly UncleBob there!

[UncleBob]

Well, now for the meat and potatoes. I'll try to cover as much as I can, then I'll open it up for questions, OK? So hold back till I'm finished here!
All in all, we got over an hour in with some serious discussion when my wife became ill. She went in the SUV and lay down, what a trooper. The drive up had her with a migraine, so she skipped lunch and just reclined in the shade in the back of the Escape. Yes, she's feeling much better now.

Some of the items we discussed were:
What are the most pressing problems as I see them with the VNF4 board? They asked my help in developing an update for the next batch of boards that would assist users in setting up their board. We came up with 3 issues:
1) The Ram Slots can only be populated in specific ways. A directive pointing this out will be the first item to be addressed. The Nforce 4 chipset isn't at all like the 3's and this can be confusing. More on what this will entail later, but the consideration of what you can expect between singlesided vs. doublesided, for instance will be included. The present disclaimer about populating all 4 slots as not being recommended is indeed false as well!
2) The board is designed to require a PCIex videocard. A PCI video card can be used, but only in addition to a PCIex card.
3) The board is designed to use a 20 pin power connector, but will utilize a 24 pin as well.

We next discussed the S1689. I brought up an idea I had been thinking about for some time. It concerns a standardization of the front panel connectors (power, reset, power LED, HDD LED, etc.) across all motherboards. I brought up the fact that the S1689 as well as the 915P were very confusing to hookup correctly. We discussed color coding each set of pins and making it standard across the product line. Any Chaintech board, for example, would have blue for the power switch connector, red for reset and so on. In conjunction with this I stressed that the manuals must be improved as they, at this point, do not provide enough information. Many users have had trouble understanding the pin configuration on the S1689, for example.

Another item we discussed was the problems with the Nforce chipset fan. I stressed that if they offer chipset fans for free, it needs to be consistent. They were very sensitive about this and quite apologetic as well. They assured me this type of inconsistency would not be happening in the future.

In respect to the VNF3-250 7/29 BIOS issue, they still are unable to duplicate the difference as stated by many users and are still looking into it. As a sign that they have not abandoned the VNF3, a new BIOS was just issued.

The problem with Semprons not being recognized is and will be addressed very soon, I was told. This is partially a problem with insufficient information from AMD and a visit from the AMD rep is forthcoming.

The Venice core will be fully supported as well as the dual core! These will only require a BIOS update and the dual core CPUs will work on the VNF4 boards. Dual core CPUs will be limited to 939 pin CPUs. As it stands now this only applies to Nvidia chipset (VNF4) and not ULI, but that's not written in stone. This will be a very exciting addition to computing as we know it and is right around the corner.

I spent a great deal of time discussing the mobile or DTR CPUs. I stressed that this is a rapidly growing segment of the overclocking world and needs to be supported. The main roadblock is that AMD doesn't give out much information to motherboard makers who don't hake mobile based motherboards. At the present Chaintech will do their best to provide Beta BIOS versions to support DTR CPUs (Turion, Newark or Georgetown). It seems as we make it clear this is direction we as enthusiasts are heading, they will be willing to listen to our needs and go out of their way to accommodate us.

In concert with this, it was made clear that the upcoming San Diego, Venice as well as the Palermo will all be officially supported, not forgetting the very promising Toledo.

Next I was shown (no not for public consumption) some of Chaintech's own internal roadmaps. These included Nvidia 5 chipsets, which are for Intel SLI boards. Also were future AMD platforms as well as the newest addition, the ULI chipset. What I can say at this time is there are no AMD SLI boards on the page. The Intel Nforce 5 will support SLI as well as DDR2. It will have 667 FSB! That's about all I can say on the roadmap for right now, but stay tuned!

[UncleBob]

The rest of the day was spent on several other issues. One was a suggestion to look at incorporating Arctic Cooling's GPU coolers in or with their high end video cards (6600/6800) as an improvement to their present cooler. This could prove to be a good deal for us, the end users, Arctic Cooling as well as Chaintech. These are high quality coolers with wide applications as well as a 6 year warranty on a very efficient and extremely quiet fan. The idea of offering them as a package or as a rebate was discussed.

We also looked at several case designs in respect to upcoming motherboard configurations in connection with the HTPC market. We discussed ways that Chaintech could incorporate quiet technologies in cooling their motherboards. Several examples I brought up were Lian Li's as well as Arctic Cooling's cases. It seems at this time that BTX is not going anywhere fast.

Another suggestion I offered was to work together to improve the manuals. One area, besides the front panel connector clarification issue, was the need for further explanation of the BIOS. The VNF4 ULTRA, at this time, is one of the most overclockable boards out there (I said one, OK? No arguments, please) and yet the BIOS is devoted to 2 1/2 pages at best. This is simply, in my opinion (hey, they were asking!) not acceptable. Several solutions we discussed were an online overclocking guide with detailed explanation of the various settings, options or variables available in the BIOS. Another solution was a CD based manual. I'll keep abreast of this as it interests me personally!

In line with that, we spent some time discussing Chaintech supporting overclocking. One suggestion I had was to bundle a program like (or even to use, license or buy??) ClockGen as it allows real time overclocking without rebooting and messing with the BIOS. The Apogee or NTune programs, I feel, are too glitzy, bloated and in Ntune's case, downright slow. ClockGen is quick, informative and with features that allow real-time data for voltages and temps, would be a blockbuster program. Fan speed and control would be welcomed as well. To keep it in a simple GUI with no fancy glitzy interface was my suggestion. We may have more feedback solicited here, keep checking. This could prove to be a very valuable addition to the newer user as well as the seasoned overclocker to keep track of the inner workings of the board.

That about finished the day for us, I didn't want to wear out my welcome. I just want to say a few things about my impressions of my visit.
1) Chaintech is very interested in increasing their motherboard line and exploring various ways of meeting our needs.
2) Chaintech wants to listen to us, the DIY's, the system builders and IT professionals. They are eager to respond to our suggestions and willing to do what it takes to respond.
3) This is a lean company. No extras. I was quite impressed at their efficiency. They are poised to move into new surroundings which will only serve to improve their ability to meet our needs.
4) Chaintech America is run by Americans, a very important distinction. This separates them from other companies who send representatives from off shore who are not used to our needs and not able to communicate like those who have grown up here can. The staff is very adept to communicating with Chaintech's headquarters and what we discuss in the forum here is given same day coverage in company transmittals.

All in all, I left Chaintech feeling I had made some new friends. We will meet again and make communicating like this more a part of our relationship. They were all cordial, sincerely grateful for our input and ready to respond to our suggestions. I was very pleased.

Thanks Chaintech for your hospitality and the opportunity to visit!

[LostInTennessee]

UB, did you ask them about higher voltages for RAM, say up to say 3.0v or 3.2v? (Like on the VNF4 Ultra)

[Lenny]

Speaking of voltages, did you discuss the inability of the VNF4 to set CPU voltages between 1.4 and 1.6v ?

[thelmores]

great job UB!

very good to hear that chaintech is willing to listen to the enthusiasts. i have never owned a chaintech, but due to this article, and their willingness to have dialogue, i would definately consider them based simply on the merits, which are considerable!

What I can say at this time is there are no AMD SLI boards on the page. The Intel Nforce 5 will support SLI as well as DDR2.

guess life cant be perfect!

[DryFire]

I"m very happy to hear about the attempted moble support as well as adding arctic coolers to the vid cards (def a nice plus).

I do like the no frills attitude but I whish they would add more voltage options.

And a standard front panel connector would be great too.

[screwtech02]

I think its outstanding that a manufacturer like Chaintech is open to hearing about issues from the end user, and willing to work with em to try and resolve them... Especially if its a simple bios issue. That makes me all the more happy that i bought this board...

[kbohip]

After reading this article about your visit UB I'm very happy that I decided to go with Chaintech again for my second motherboard. The first, my VNF3-250 was perfect. My new VNF4-Ultra is even better! I really like the fan control option in the newest bios. Add the fact that this board is at least $30 cheaper than an equivalent NF4 board and that makes the deal even sweeter. Keep up the good work Chaintech.

[Silversierra]

Wow, I didn't realize that Chaintech was so open to ideas. If they do change things that were suggested and listen to their customers, I think Chaintech could be the best motherboard maker. As it is now, most people think, that Chaintech is just average, cheap but works ok. If they listen, they will seriously improve their image. That's sweet that the vnf4ultra will support dual core, I have this board, and so far have really liked it. The gpu cooling idea is good as well. The loudest thing in my pc is my graphics card. Companies need to quiet their fans or make them passively cooled. Overall, Chaintech has impressed me, especially after what Uncle Bob has said.

[UncleBob]

Speaking of voltages, did you discuss the inability of the VNF4 to set CPU voltages between 1.4 and 1.6v ?

Thanks for reminding me, Lenny! In my scribbling of notes as we spoke, I missed that!
This is definitely being addressed, no news at present but the problem is reproducible, so they are working on it as we speak.

UB, did you ask them about higher voltages for RAM, say up to say 3.0v or 3.2v? (Like on the VNF4 Ultra)

We did discuss that as well, as a matter of fact several times at great length. Thanks for bringing that up. At present there seems little to do but we looked at other motherboard manufacturers who do offer these options via jumpers on-board. They showed me a 'competitors' board they were testing that had these and are actively investigating how to incorporate these in Chaintech products. It's one of my pet peeves, aside from software overclocking from within windows.

Another issue we discussed was the fact that some users experience the need to remove the BIOS chip if they have had a bad flash. At present the 915P uses a permanently mounted BIOS chip. I stressed that this would not be a good trend, in my opinion, to continue. When a flash goes bad, changing the chip is much more convenient than the whole board. They noted that and will take it into consideration in future boards.

[TheGlasMan]

Hey Uncle Bob, can you get the drivers (video and chipset) and benchmarks for tested 6800GT's so I can see if I can reproduce their results? I was sceptical, but when I tested it was there. Too many games and video rendering examples are documented for it not to be reproducable at least in part. The examples include boards that were initially "new" and "old", the results remain the same. Is there a trick we don't know of when changing versions? Are they not overclocking enough? If it has an nVidia card fastwrites slow rendering (esp when it is overclocked) so must be turned off in the bios.You notice there has been no feedback on the new VnF3 250 bios, I for one don't think it is worth trying. If they are denying the issue, it means it wasn't fixed.

I am glad to hear they are interested in our ideas, because I for one am glad I bought my Chaintech board. But they better hurry, DFI stole my idea and are releasing the ChainGunner, http://www.dfi.com.tw/Product/xx_pro...YPE=LP&SITE=US
It took them all of one day.

[Lenny]

Glasman, could you clarify what 'issue' you are referring to? I can't figure out what you are referring to in your post What motherboard does it apply to?

[TheGlasMan]

Here you go Lenny,
http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=375328
PS, Uncle Bob, Talk to you AFTER Hawaii!!!!!!!!

[Lenny]

Is that problem limited to the VNF3-250?