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  1. #1
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    Is There An Education Crisis In America?

    I keep hearing people say that and then I see reports in the news (I can't remember the last place I seen this) to this effect. I hear that Japan, India, and various other countries focus more on math and science than we do here in the US. I'm interested in some of your opinions about this. I know some of you are pretty well informed on this issue and can give me insight as well as sources for you information.

    http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/05....ap/index.html




    'k- back at it agian!

  2. #2
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    Re: Is There An Education Crisis In America?

    I'd say, "yes", but would also call it more of a symptom than the disease. IMHO the greater problem is a lack of parental involvement/guidance than any other single factor. As evidence, I'd offer that the same schools/teachers turn out very high and very low quality students, most while spending far more resources on the poor ones. In my own particular experience, I've also found school guidance couselors at the high school level only slightly more valuable than an snow machine in the Yukon.

    What I despise, but to a degree grudingly accept as a growing necessity, is schools doing more than teaching the basics. Schools shouldn't have to deal with a lot of the crap they presently do, but in the absence of parents doing what they should (in my view), someone else must step up to the plate.
    Last edited by myv65; 05-20-2005 at 12:20 PM.

  3. #3

    Re: Is There An Education Crisis In America?

    A lot of our poor testing scores in this country is due to the large immigration problem we have of poor Mexicans streaming into our public school systems. They hardly speak the language and we test them alongside children born and raised in the country. Many of them fail tests and become drop outs anyway.

  4. #4
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    Re: Is There An Education Crisis In America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Clifton
    A lot of our poor testing scores in this country is due to the large immigration problem we have of poor Mexicans streaming into our public school systems. They hardly speak the language and we test them alongside children born and raised in the country. Many of them fail tests and become drop outs anyway.
    I disagree. I believe it's a symptom as myv65 relayed. Study habits, peer pressure (which take one away from academics), parental control over their children in relation to studies, and cirriculum's standards becoming weaker come to me of the top of my head.




  5. #5

    Re: Is There An Education Crisis In America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1
    I disagree. I believe it's a symptom as myv65 relayed. Study habits, peer pressure (which take one away from academics), parental control over their children in relation to studies, and cirriculum's standards becoming weaker come to me of the top of my head.
    are you telling me that immigration has no effect on U.S. test scores? lol

  6. #6
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    Re: Is There An Education Crisis In America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Clifton
    are you telling me that immigration has no effect on U.S. test scores? lol
    I am not, and I doubt that nobody1 is either. I can tell you that in our area many students in the ESL program are not subject to the same testing. I can not tell you how it plays into the NCLB act, but could ask my wife (a teacher). Indeed, it is not simply immigrants as there are "other" students who are also exempted from testing. Most often this is to pad the numbers, IMHO, and seems to depend upon the individual states. Illinois is particularly bad in this regard and one of the reasons that NCLB got going on a federal level.

    I will go further and state that in our district children of immigrants, whether legal or not, are doing better than certain other segments of the student body. Such is not a particularly welcome statement in the wonderful world of political correctness, but it remains the truth (at least locally).

    For the record, I'd prefer school matters remain local as opposed to state or federal, but this is not the way things are trending. Higher levels of government = more "overhead" and more waste, all with the added benefit of reduced local control.

  7. #7
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    Re: Is There An Education Crisis In America?

    Quote Originally Posted by myv65
    I'd say, "yes", but would also call it more of a symptom than the disease. IMHO the greater problem is a lack of parental involvement/guidance than any other single factor. As evidence, I'd offer that the same schools/teachers turn out very high and very low quality students, most while spending far more resources on the poor ones. In my own particular experience, I've also found school guidance couselors at the high school level only slightly more valuable than an snow machine in the Yukon.

    What I despise, but to a degree grudingly accept as a growing necessity, is schools doing more than teaching the basics. Schools shouldn't have to deal with a lot of the crap they presently do, but in the absence of parents doing what they should (in my view), someone else must step up to the plate.
    I agree 100%. My wife is a elementary teacher (in Illinois yet) and every year the burden grows more and more as schools take on every responsibility that should be the parents, because parents seem unwilling to fulfill even the basic requirements their children need. School is a place of learning, but 6.5 hours a day cannot possibly teach them what they need to know. Parental teaching MUST exist as an adjunct to state education, and it was always expected too. Children used to come to kindergarden knowing the basics of numbers and the alphabet, now they show up knowing nothing. This trend continues throughout their life, when you'll be lucky if they give studying and homework a second though after the bell rings.

    This is compunded by the current attitude of many parents: that school is a competition between your and your neighbors children, where the 'winner' gets the better grades. As such, the new focus has become NOT what your children learn, but what it says on their report card. When my wife worked at a private school there was an unspoken rule that NO child was allowed to be issued a grade below "B". Doing so meant you would piss off the parents, who would take their children (and money) to another school.

    Public school was even worse. I can't count the number of times my wife was ordered by the administration to change a grade, simply because the parents wanted it changed. The alternative, giving the child the grade he earned, would have meant a swift end to her entire career. To some extent a weak administration is to be blamed, but usually the choice for them was to change the grade or be taken to court.

    Tony, you're flat out wrong. Our poor testing scores are a result of unqualified children being pushed forward in grades, simply because the administration doesn't want to 'rock the boat'.

    Immigration has NO effect on test scores where I live, northern midwest, and we are seeing the identical problems.

  8. #8

    Re: Is There An Education Crisis In America?

    Quote Originally Posted by mostholycerebus
    Immigration has NO effect on test scores where I live, northern midwest, and we are seeing the identical problems.
    Must be all those idiot Canadians sneaking over.

  9. #9
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    Re: Is There An Education Crisis In America?

    Tony I can't read your posts, so forgive me if I wait a bit. Hopefully someone will quote the relevent points and delete all the you tend to spout.

  10. #10
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    Re: Is There An Education Crisis In America?

    Quote Originally Posted by mostholycerebus
    Tony I can't read your posts, so forgive me if I wait a bit. Hopefully someone will quote the relevent points and delete all the you tend to spout.
    I haven't put anyone on "ignore", but IIRC there is a way to view the posts of those you typically ignore. Isn't there a "view post" button or somethin'?

  11. #11
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    Re: Is There An Education Crisis In America?

    Quote Originally Posted by myv65
    I haven't put anyone on "ignore", but IIRC there is a way to view the posts of those you typically ignore. Isn't there a "view post" button or somethin'?
    Yea, I had to put him on ignore as well. I think this is a good topic with everyone contributing good ideas except for him. Some people take a bad idea to an extreme and continue running with it.

  12. #12
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    Re: Is There An Education Crisis In America?

    ^^Add the undesired member to ignore list. Posts will only be viewable by taking the "view post" action.

  13. #13

    Re: Is There An Education Crisis In America?

    bunch of babies pfft.

  14. #14
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    Re: Is There An Education Crisis In America?

    Quote Originally Posted by myv65
    I haven't put anyone on "ignore", but IIRC there is a way to view the posts of those you typically ignore. Isn't there a "view post" button or somethin'?
    Yes, but some people continue to post unreasoned arguments, refuse to respond to other logical points, or just troll for responses. I've decided not to waste any more of my time reading their crap.

    Unfortunately this means that on the rare occurance they post something worthwhile, it won't be read.

    Anyway, this is all OT.

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