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  1. #16
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    Re: AGEIA PhysX Physics Processor??

    Quote Originally Posted by clement
    If they are successful they very well could become the 3dfx of physics cards. (If you could call that a compliment I guess ) So much of this reminds me of how 3dfx started with the voodoo1's (and later 2's) and how they really had to break into a market that didn't really exist. If 3dfx can do it surely theese guys can too!
    Funny thing is, Ageia is not only trying to follow the 3dfx model, they're actualy bringing in former 3dfx employees.
    AGEIA(TM) Technologies, Inc., a company dedicated to delivering pervasive interactive reality to next-generation games, today announced that it has appointed startup veteran Andy Keane to the post of Vice President of Marketing...

    ...Andy Keane is best known for marketing 3Dfx's Voodoo and Voodoo2 graphics, which dramatically altered the course of 3D games in the PC market. AGEIA will leverage his experience as well as his personal passion for physics to drive the adoption of AGEIA's new category of processor, the Physics Processing Unit (PPU).
    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050427/sfw074.html?.v=4

  2. #17
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    Re: AGEIA PhysX Physics Processor??

    All good comments, though I do have to say that the comparisons of a PPU to additional cores in either x86 or Cell processors isn't really fair. The PPU should be able to do the calculations for physics much faster than a general purpose processor, and thus even an extra core of a GP processor. Of course, how MUCH faster is yet to be seen...
    Ryan Shrout
    Owner, PC Perspective
    rshrout -at- pcper -dot- com
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  3. #18
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    Re: AGEIA PhysX Physics Processor??

    Quote Originally Posted by Low Roller
    The web page linked below has a lot of Ageia info. Be sure to check out the the E3 demo videos linked there.

    http://personal.inet.fi/atk/kjh2348fs/ageia_physx.html
    If anyone knows how to contact who is running this, could you tell them they are pointed to page 2 of my article, not page 1?

    Thanks!
    Ryan Shrout
    Owner, PC Perspective
    rshrout -at- pcper -dot- com
    --= Follow me on Twitter =--


  4. #19
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    Re: AGEIA PhysX Physics Processor??

    Quote Originally Posted by steven975
    this sort of thing will eventually be put into GPUs or CPUs, but AGEIA has a market for a while.

    Nvidia and ATI cannot put this on their GPUs today or in the near future most likely.

    You guys do realize that this thing is the size of an Opteron right? That is big. ATI and Nvidia can't afford the die space to integrate this thing...it's bigger than some of their GPUs for crying out loud! I don't think ATI or Nvidia would consider putting this in their GPUs until the 45nano process is up and running.
    I'm in agreement with that...... but, I could see them maybe doing a duel/quad design or something. I could see AMD or Intel picking this up too. A quad-core 64bit CPU with physics processor that is hyper-transport linked(just throwing stuff out there)or integrated to the effect.

    They'll be bought I can almost promise that. Big Boys are seeing $$$$
    Last edited by NvMatrix; 05-24-2005 at 10:08 PM.

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  5. #20
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    Re: AGEIA PhysX Physics Processor??

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan
    All good comments, though I do have to say that the comparisons of a PPU to additional cores in either x86 or Cell processors isn't really fair. The PPU should be able to do the calculations for physics much faster than a general purpose processor, and thus even an extra core of a GP processor. Of course, how MUCH faster is yet to be seen...
    Regarding Cell, while the PPC core is general purpose, the SPE's are not. Here's a quote from Mark Rein of Epic in a recent interview on Gamespot:
    GS: The PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 will both have extremely powerful multicore processors capable of doing a lot of physics calculations. Is that going to make it difficult for developers to port console games over to the PC?

    MR: The PlayStation 3 Cell architecture is very similar to the hardware design of the Ageia chip, so the PC will be able to get superaccelerated also. The Ageia NovodeX API, when they bring it over to the PlayStation 3, will be very fast, very powerful--similar to the Ageia
    http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05...s_6126181.html

    Here's a quote from Epic's Tim Sweeny on this subject during an interview by nVnews:
    Freeman: Okay. How will that affect the performance of Unreal Engine 3 running on a hardware physics engine as opposed to a software physics engine?

    Sweeney: Well, the big thing there is how we'll be able to put far, far more physical effects, with things like particle systems, and fluid effects, where without the Ageia system, we'll have a particle system with only a few hundred particles, and with the system, we could have tens of thousands of particles there. And it's really nice, because it mirrors the kind of non-traditional processing power that's available on the Playstation 3 with the Cell architecture, so it's a factor of ten times more computing power, but it's very special-purpose.
    http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=50895

    AnandTech touched on this subject a couple months ago as well.

    I have no idea who runs that website with the collection of Ageia info. I saw it linked at [H] a month or so ago and bookmarked it...

    I enjoyed the article, BTW. Its one of the best ones I've seen on Ageia and the PPU.
    Last edited by Low Roller; 05-24-2005 at 10:54 PM.

  6. #21
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    Re: AGEIA PhysX Physics Processor??

    I think its freakin cool and I hope that AGEIA does well.

    Nice article Ryan. Good work.

  7. #22
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    Re: AGEIA PhysX Physics Processor??

    Great article! I agree with your thoughts on putting a PPU in game consoles. Its going to be so hard for game dev's to justify taking a huge userbase hit just to support a piece of hardware a majority of folks dont have.

    I just dont see how anything like this could ever catch on unless of course the software needed to take advantage the PPU was in an open source format like OpenGL. This way other manufacterers could design PPU cards as well and the respective games could in turn support the newer flavors of PPU cards.

    What a read. I enjoyed it!

    | Athlon 64 X2 5200+ | 2gb Crucial Ballistix DDR2| Sapphire X1900XTX | 1TB |

  8. #23
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    May 2005
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    Re: AGEIA PhysX Physics Processor??

    As someone mentioned earlier AGEIA needs to start talking to Nvidia/SIS/VIA and ASUS/ABIT/every other motherboard manufacturer and try to get them to integrate their chip into their chipset. This is probably the easiest and best way to get this thing into the mainstream. Then once it catches on and people have them and games start to take advantage of the new physics engines they can start pushing the standalone cards.

    AGEIA can do this, they just need to get it out and into the light and people will just have to decide from there. I would have no problem buying a separate card to make my games that much more realistic. AGEIA just needs to make everyone else think that.

  9. #24
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    Re: AGEIA PhysX Physics Processor??

    That's true ArchAngel22, maybe a motherboard vendor could integrate this onto their "gaming" board? The only problem is again cost...

    As for the comments on the PS3 Cell processor, i have gone into the appropriate channels to see how I can get some comparative information on the PPU and Cell.
    Ryan Shrout
    Owner, PC Perspective
    rshrout -at- pcper -dot- com
    --= Follow me on Twitter =--


  10. #25
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    Re: AGEIA PhysX Physics Processor??

    Quote Originally Posted by Low Roller
    Regarding Cell, while the PPC core is general purpose, the SPE's are not. Here's a quote from Mark Rein of Epic in a recent interview on Gamespot: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05...s_6126181.html

    Here's a quote from Epic's Tim Sweeny on this subject during an interview by nVnews: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=50895

    AnandTech touched on this subject a couple months ago as well.

    I have no idea who runs that website with the collection of Ageia info. I saw it linked at [H] a month or so ago and bookmarked it...

    I enjoyed the article, BTW. Its one of the best ones I've seen on Ageia and the PPU.
    The above comments in particular I agree with.

    I thought the article was great except for the omission of Unreal 3 Engine's inclusion of the Novodex API features. The unreal engine is a huge win for AGEIA in their foray into gaming hardware in my opinion. Many games in 2006 will be using this engine. In my opinion that's a pretty big deal when it comes to predicting the success of the company, although I admit many of the caveats in the article had not occurred to me, and I was glad to see someone thinking very critically about the difficulty they face.

    It only takes a few game demos to show the hardcore gamers how cool this processor can be, and they'll be buying them. If Alienware and Dell don't hop on board and start adding them to high end machines, then they will have a hard time selling them once the capabilities of this processor are better known. AGEIA has TSMC and Bank of America providing funding, so I don't really think they're going to run out of funding before this hits mainstream in mid '06, which is when I would expect Alienware and Dell et al to have adapted the PPU as a high end add-in card, essentially making the company's success a reality.

    You can hardly expect id and Valve not to jump on this bandwagon. Look at the prominence of physics in HL2. Clearly Valve sees physics as creating the next generation of gaming. Writing physics for dual-core CPUs in the future seems silly compared to the massive capabilities of this chip. It can do the work of 10 CPUs (or more!).

    The only thing they are lacking at this point is a mainstream price point. I would hope they'd have a scaled down version available in the $100-$150 range to get more of a mainstream market. It's too bad they're not offering a chip with a bit more modest capabilities (it would still dwarf what even 5 CPUs could do for physics processing), so that market adaption could be quicker, and more games would use it, and my wallet wouldn't get hit so hard.

    As a gamer though, I must say my first thoughts about this add in card before I have even SEEN the demos people are describing are: GIMME NOW!! I suspect most gamers feel the same way, and like me will have it on their shopping list for the holidays. So much for that new car stereo!! Ha!

  11. #26
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    Re: AGEIA PhysX Physics Processor??

    Thanks for the comments and welcome to the forum. I am right now attempting to follow up on the AGEIA and NovodeX points made to me in this thread and in emails. While I agree that getting NovodeX into the UE3 engine is indeed a big deal, Epic hasn't set in stone if they are going to be doing anything special to utilize the hardware of the PhysX chip yet. Using the NovodeX software API just means that they have that possibility in the future.
    Ryan Shrout
    Owner, PC Perspective
    rshrout -at- pcper -dot- com
    --= Follow me on Twitter =--


  12. #27
    Joined
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    52

    Re: AGEIA PhysX Physics Processor??

    Digital Jesters inked a partnership with Ageia. Their upcoming game, Bet on Soldier, will support the PhysX card. According to DJ, those with PPU's in their machines will have a 'suprise' unlocked for them that will not be available to systems without a PPU. I'm guessing its an extra level or something.

    To be honest, I'm not a bit suprised by the price tag. The first incarnation of any new product almost always demands a price premium.

    If anyone's interested in seeing how inept CPU's are at handing large scale physics calculations, download NovodeX Rocket linked below. Once you have it installed, run "Big Bang" and watch your system be humbled.
    http://www.novodex.com/rocket/NovodexRocket_V1_1.exe

  13. #28
    Joined
    May 2005
    Posts
    1

    Thumbs up Re: AGEIA PhysX Physics Processor??

    This stuff will surely change the gaming experience forever, imagine how you could make "real" bullets coming out of guns and letting the physics engine calculate the flight path of the bullet and how it will ricochet on diffrent surfaces and what energy it will have left (speed and the weight of the bullet accordingly), in order to give an accurate damage penalty to the player. Even in extremely large battles with an extremely large amounts of bullets, fragments from grenades and bombs and ricochets the game will have nice frames per second!

    I can't wait to get one of these cards, equip it with a waterblock and clock the living hell out of it!

    (GREAT article btw! )

  14. #29
    Joined
    Jun 2003
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    196

    Re: AGEIA PhysX Physics Processor??

    Seems to me that game developers can implement physics code in a way to exploit the new dual core processors instead of programming to yet another API for a card that steals cpu cycles, not to mention generating more heat and noise.

    doing it this way allows the programmer to write a version of the game for the lowest common denominator, as well as advanced (mutlithreaded) code to calc physics on a 2nd cpu (or ocre) if one is detected. The beauty is that he didn't have to write code to a specific card.

    Lastly, I saw not one mention of DircetX. Microsoft would have to be completely onboard with this idea for it to work in Windows.
    Check "My System" link in message header for system specs.

  15. #30
    Joined
    Apr 2004
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    2,159

    Re: AGEIA PhysX Physics Processor??

    DirectX ...not really remember this is the physics not the graphics The ps3 is using thier software. Let them be the the standard and play keep away from M$. Why would you want your effort and energy to be contigent upon M$ support and proprietary software.
    Keep it seperate so that it can be used by games using DirectX or OpenGL

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