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  1. #1
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    Arrow The OcBible and Guidemania supported thread!

    This program (OcBible) is based on Mathematical algorithms and it will be useful if you follow some instructions
    It is something like calculator.
    For example it predicts the next Maximum Stable Frequency of your CPU, RAM, chipset you can optimize your memory timmings, calculate the recommended PSU etc...
    AMD and Intel users can use it.

    Programs are freeware (forever).
    They don't modify Windows registry or any of your system files.

    LINKS FOR DOWNLOADING
    Current versions are hosted by Aoaforums just follow my sign!
    Last edited by MrSeanKon; 02-11-2008 at 04:10 AM.

  2. #2
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    Arrow Barton 2500+ tutorial: Find MSFs...

    System was:
    CPU: AMD Barton 2500+.
    Multiplier: 12.0X (unlocked CPU).
    Mainboard: ABIT NF7-S v2.0 nForce2 chipset.
    BIOS version: TicTac modded BIOS.
    Memory: 1 X 512 MB Kingston HyperX PC4300 CL3.0.
    Timings: 2.5-4-4-8 (CL3.0 did not boot) divider was 50%.
    Vdimm: 2.984 Volts cos I want 100% stable RAM.
    PSU: No name PSU 550 Watts.
    Cooling: Air cooled by SLK 947U.
    Voltages measured with a multimeter (at full load).

    The following table shows all necessary data:



    Step 1:
    Set voltage around default (factory) value.
    All Bartons have Vcore=1.650 so the closest setting in BIOS was 1.70.
    Note this mainboard undervoltage Vcore a bit (1.659 < 1.70).
    If Vcore was 1.650 in BIOS then multimeter showed 1.639.
    Note:
    Some unlocked AMD CPUs reaches higher MSFs if we change multiplier but it is rare.
    Anyway try to find the optimum!

    Step 2:
    AMD launched the highest Barton 3200+ (2.2 GHz real speed).
    Thus, it is very possible for this processor to reach this speed if cooling is good (not necessary watercooling).
    2200 --> 12 X 183.33 --> I set 183 FSB in BIOS.
    I do not use any programs for overclocking via Windows (on the fly).
    Tip:
    If cooling was something extreme e.g. Prometeia, Vapochill, phase change then user must seek for first MSF in an upper area.
    For temperatures around -15C first MSF is almost 160 MHz more (2200 + 160 = 2360 MHz) and around -30C first MSF is 200 – 220 MHz more.
    This analysis works fine for any AMD up to A64 754.
    I reckon it works fine for 939s too (I have not tested A64 939).

    Step 3:
    nForce2 chipset runs OK (nVidia specifications) at least at 200 MHz.
    This means no worry if CPU runs < 12.0 X 200 = 2.4 GHz.
    In addition this modded BIOS helps chipset to be stable at higher MSFs.
    Note you must be very sure what are you going to do using modded BIOS cos it is dangerous!

    Step 4:
    Set divider and relax memory timings.
    Of course some combinations maybe not work.
    This point requires experience and you have to check some combinations.
    Sometimes system hangs during startup and you hear beep codes.

    Step 5:
    Choose a CPU stability program.
    For example S&M quick test, Prime95 (up to ten minutes) or SuperPi 4M.
    It is very important to understand that you must not spend much time at this step.
    This method called “Mapping method” and you save time!
    Mapping method works fine for any system (AMD/Intel).

    Step 6:
    I started 12 X 183 MHz and the stability program was SuperPi 4M.
    Of course, system passes this test.
    Reboot and set 12.0 X 184 = 2208 MHz (passed).
    12 X 185, 12 X 186, 12 X 187, 12 X 188, 12 X 189, 12 X 190 passed.
    Reboot and set 12 X 191 = 2292 MHz SuperPi 4M failed.
    Thus, MSF is 2284 MHz or 12.0 X 190 as table shows.
    This is the most important step for “Mapping method”.
    As you can see, I tried eight combinations (183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190) for FSB and step was 1 MHz.
    SuperPi 4M runs up to four minutes for Barton systems.
    Therefore, I spent 4 * 8 = 32 minutes only (Jesus what a waste time)!
    Last edited by MrSeanKon; 06-25-2005 at 06:44 PM.

  3. #3
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    Step 7:
    If your AMD is different from my samples you must find the second MSF like above.
    In addition, you must run General CPU speed estimator.
    Sorry I cannot buy any AMD CPU….
    However, you can save more time at this point if you use your experience and O/c Analyzer find frequency FSB.
    Set n = 1 (linear), 0.75, 0.5 (square) and 0.333 (cubic) and compute estimated MSFs:






    Reboot system set Vcore = 1.709 and 12 X 196 = 2353 MHz --> SuperPi 4M failed.
    Reboot (Vcore = 1.709 always) and 12 X 195 = 2340 MHz --> SuperPi 4M passed!
    Therefore, I spent 4 * 2 = 8 minutes only (God what a waste time)!
    MSF2 --> 2340 MHz, Vcore = 1.709!
    Last edited by MrSeanKon; 06-25-2005 at 06:44 PM.

  4. #4
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    Step 8:
    Now we are ready to run General CPU speed estimator.
    We enter data as photo shows:



    Reboot system set Vcore = 1.759 and 2424 = 12 X 202.
    2421 MHz is the upper limit so at this point we start seeking from upper limit.
    SuperPi 4M failed of course.
    Reboot system (Vcore = 1.759 always) and 12 X 201 --> SuperPi 4M failed.
    12 X 200 --> SuperPi 4M failed.
    12 X 199 --> SuperPi 4M failed.
    Reboot 13.5 X 198 --> SuperPi 4M passed! --> MSF3 = 23477 MHz!
    Remember that C.C. is always 100% at this point.
    In addition FSB is not integer (2377 = 12 X 198.08).
    Similar we continue and complete table up to MSF5 = 2456 MHz, Vcore5 = 1.859V.
    As you see voltage step is small but we can increase it (not very much cos of extrapolation).

    Step 9:
    I continued like above.
    If Vcore > +15% of default (factory value) then CPU work in breakdown region.
    In general, it is difficult to estimate next MSFs because of exponent n changes rapidly.
    1.905 Volts (Vcore6) is 1.905 / 1.650 --> 1.1545 --> 15.45% higher from default Barton Vcore.
    Anyway, let’s try!
    Nevertheless, it is very important to see what is going on.
    O/c Analyzer find exponents give us many info!
    We enter five pairs first:



    Results are here:



    As you can see, n was 0.816 and became 0.638!
    This is very normal increase Vcore --> exponent n decreases.
    Thus, MSF1 --> MSF6 has exponent up to 0.445!
    Let’s run O/c Analyzer find frequency FSB again:



    Estimated MSF is 2495 MHz.
    Last edited by MrSeanKon; 06-25-2005 at 06:45 PM.

  5. #5
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    Let’s run General CPU speed estimator now:



    Well upper limit is 2523 MHz and lower limit is 2469 MHz.
    O/c Analyzer find frequency FSB predicted 2495 MHz so it is very possible 2469 < MSF6 < 2495 MHz.
    LOL BAN [2495, 2523] area to save time!
    It is impossible from MSF1 --> MSF6 n > 0.638 I have tested many CPUs trust me but I am not a magician of course!
    We expect n < 0.638 but we do not know the exact value.
    Many phenomena follow Gaussian distribution so it is not wrong if we apply these ideas.
    By the way, we cannot express this complex phenomenon using only Mathematics needs test.
    Gaussian distribution determinates mean value which is (a + b) / 2.
    (2495 + 2469) / 2 --> 2482 MHz.
    Reboot system, Vcore = 1.905 speed 12 X 207 = 2484 MHz --> SuperPi 4M passed!
    Reboot system, Vcore = 1.905 speed 12 X 208 = 2403 MHz --> SuperPi 4M failed!
    Thus MSF6 = 2486 MHz --> 12 X 207.17 as CPUz showed.
    Two combinations only! Whoopee!

    Step 10:
    Next Vcore (see table above) was 1.967 Volts a very high voltage.
    It is 1.967 / 1.650 --> +19.2% higher from default Vcore.
    In this case n <= 0.333 (cubic) in many cases.
    Let’s run O/c Analyzer exponents:





    As you see % loss became bigger.

    O/c Analyzer find frequency FSB:



    Reboot system, Vcore = 1.967 speed 12 X 211 = 2532 MHz --> SuperPi 4M failed.
    Reboot system, Vcore = 1.67 speed 12 X 210 = 2520 MHz --> SuperPi 4M passed!
    I was lucky of course!
    Note I put n = 0.600 instead of 0.613 cos it is expectable n5 < 0.613=n4.
    Similar we continue and fill the rest table.

    This is the end!
    We finish buddies!
    As you can understand I spend less than 2 hours!

    Step 11:
    Now we choose a Vcore for permanent usage.
    It depends on you (see polls ask your friends etc)…
    Assume I choose Vcore5 = 1.859 Volts.
    MSF5 was 2456 MHz but stress time was small too.
    OK at this point I have to run a stability tester for more time.
    I did not set 12 X 204.66 = 2456 MHz.
    It is obvious MSF5 computed for a small period.
    In general final MSF (long period stretching) is 2 - 3 MHz lower.
    I checked this system and it worked fine (12 hours video encoding) at 12 X 204 MHz.
    “Mapping method” is the basis of O/c Bible.
    You save money and time of course.
    Last edited by MrSeanKon; 06-25-2005 at 06:46 PM.

  6. #6
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    Re: Overclocking Bible: Post your comments/questions here!

    Thank you..I usually forget which coils to put the multi on and have to ask my friend. That was good work and I'm sure everyone will appreciate it.

    Great job and thanks again!

    Someone sticky this sob. Please.


    You eat beaver?
    May I ask where you live that beaver is eaten?
    Originally posted by POCI

  7. #7
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    Thumbs up

    Thanks StanRoman!
    In the future I will post more tutorials for other programs.
    Keep on computing!

    Of course I am trying the best I can do sorry I do not have much spare time.
    But I love my work that's why I continue.

    Edit a after a long time
    The photos which says StanRoman deleted.
    All of them and much more are inside Guidemania.
    Last edited by MrSeanKon; 08-25-2006 at 09:58 AM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Overclocking Bible: Post your comments/questions here!

    I wish you could use a Mobile XP2600+ and twin sticks of Corsair PC3200XL DDR memory to see what the highest MSF would be.

    Thanks for article!

    --Fernando
    DFI LANPARTY nF4 SLI-DR | BIOS 406 | Opteron 170 | CCBBE 0615DPMW | 9x312@1.35v | Mushkin XP4000 2x1GB | Mushkin XP-650 | eVGA 7950GT KO | 2x Seagate Barracuda 320GB SATA II Raid-0 | Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic | Sony IDE DVD-ROM | Plextor IDE 16x DVD Burner | Tuniq Tower 120 | Antec P180B

  9. #9
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    Thumbs up Thanks Sharptooth+ too!

    Well to be more specific I have to say more in depth now:
    1) I have not got any mobile Barton that's why I did not post any tutorials.
    Sorry I cannot buy anything (I am not rich).
    2) On the other hand if your CPU is different from my samples then you use General CPU speed estimator like above.
    3) If your CPU is similar like my samples then you can use AMD desktop CPU estimator or Intel CPU speed estimator.
    OK they are available be patient.
    4) You should find your CPU limits first.
    So you should use memory dividers relaxed timings etc...
    5) Of course you can use General CPU estimator to find memory limits too until next versions (I am preparing Memory speed estimator).
    Keep in mind that memory modeling is too hard cos many combinations of timings etc...
    I hope you find this program useful.
    In the future I will update it more.
    6) Oh my!
    You have ABIT NF7-S v2.0!
    My favourite mainboard!
    Have you tried any TicTac modded BIOS?
    Sorry I do not remember which version I put cos it was 10 months ago...
    Last edited by MrSeanKon; 08-29-2005 at 03:28 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Overclocking Bible: Post your comments/questions here!

    MrSeanKon--

    Thanks for you all your effort. It has been useful in giving me ideas about my particular setup. Sorry about the mobile xp2600+ and Corsair XL memory. I hope you can save and get them to update your article in the future!

    --Fernando
    DFI LANPARTY nF4 SLI-DR | BIOS 406 | Opteron 170 | CCBBE 0615DPMW | 9x312@1.35v | Mushkin XP4000 2x1GB | Mushkin XP-650 | eVGA 7950GT KO | 2x Seagate Barracuda 320GB SATA II Raid-0 | Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic | Sony IDE DVD-ROM | Plextor IDE 16x DVD Burner | Tuniq Tower 120 | Antec P180B

  11. #11
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    Sharptooth+ you can post you questions

    or anything else you do not understand.
    I do not know if I am clear...
    Xm memory estimation is difficult...
    I have 3 samples only..
    On the other I cannot buy any AMD or Intel CPU cos money...
    Anyway during next years I hope to make a large database...
    A friend of mine had mobile Barton on last year but I did not collect data (he was lazy)...

    P.S.
    I forgot to add 15.0X multiplier in AMD CPU speed estimator in comboboxes.
    Last edited by MrSeanKon; 03-16-2006 at 03:01 AM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Sharptooth+ you can post you questions

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSeanKon
    or anything else you do not understand.
    I do not know if I am clear...
    Xm memory estimation is difficult...
    I have 3 samples only..
    On the other I cannot buy any AMD or Intel CPU cos money...
    Anyway during next years I hope to make a large database...
    A friend of mine had mobile Barton on last year but I did not collect data (he was lazy)...

    P.S.
    I forgot to add 15.0X multiplier in AMD CPU speed estimator in comboboxes.
    If you can pay for shipping I'll send you a free XP DL3TC that oc's like a mother @#$%&*! It goes to 2.4 I think..it's an xp1700 JIUHB.


    You eat beaver?
    May I ask where you live that beaver is eaten?
    Originally posted by POCI

  13. #13
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    Re: Sharptooth+ you can post you questions

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSeanKon
    or anything else you do not understand.
    I do not know if I am clear...
    Xm memory estimation is difficult...
    I have 3 samples only..
    On the other I cannot buy any AMD or Intel CPU cos money...
    Anyway during next years I hope to make a large database...
    A friend of mine had mobile Barton on last year but I did not collect data (he was lazy)...

    P.S.
    I forgot to add 15.0X multiplier in AMD CPU speed estimator in comboboxes.
    MrSeanKon--

    Don't worry...we still love you! We'll be looking forward to your updates. Thanks!

    --Fernando
    DFI LANPARTY nF4 SLI-DR | BIOS 406 | Opteron 170 | CCBBE 0615DPMW | 9x312@1.35v | Mushkin XP4000 2x1GB | Mushkin XP-650 | eVGA 7950GT KO | 2x Seagate Barracuda 320GB SATA II Raid-0 | Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic | Sony IDE DVD-ROM | Plextor IDE 16x DVD Burner | Tuniq Tower 120 | Antec P180B

  14. #14
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    Re: Overclocking Bible: Post your comments/questions here!

    Excellent thread. Mods - please add this to the sticky.

    Edit: BTW you might want to put a link to your MSF tool in the first post. Also, a zip format would be appreciated as opposed to the rar format.
    Last edited by scrandman; 06-17-2005 at 04:30 PM.

  15. #15
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    Thanks buddies!

    Quote Originally Posted by scrandman View Post
    Excellent thread. Mods - please add this to the sticky.


    Quote Originally Posted by scrandman View Post
    Edit: BTW you might want to put a link to your MSF tool in the first post.
    OK the link added also my signature shows the links also.

    Quote Originally Posted by scrandman View Post
    Also, a zip format would be appreciated as opposed to the rar format.
    Yeah the files are uploaded at Aoaforums which proudly host both programs so no problem for *.zip or *.rar

    StanRoman well nice idea but I do not have mainboard to install your CPU.
    Anyway your CPU is similar like my AMD samples so you can use AMD CPU speed estimator.
    Last edited by MrSeanKon; 12-07-2006 at 03:37 AM.

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