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  1. #16
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    Re: "Being Slick isn't always being right"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar
    Challenge?

    My college experience was before your time, pup.

    And to my knowledge of liberals being out of touch comes from experience... I used to be one.

    Wake me up when you learn to tell a joke from a personal attack.
    Right, so using your personal experience from a quarter century ago is relevant to today's reality how? You would seem to have attended college during the hayday of the liberalism revolution (or just thereafter), which was based on campuses around the world. If you attended college in Europe, it would have been more pronounced.
    Last edited by Orangutan; 01-23-2006 at 03:04 PM.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  2. #17
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    Re: "Being Slick isn't always being right"

    Right, so using your personal experience from a quarter decade ago is relevant to today's reality how?
    A quarter decade ago? Colleges these days... the graduates can't even count time. Was yours a government school? Try three decades, or twelve times longer ago than your estimate.

    If you reread the thread, you'll see that I never tried to make my personal college experience relevant to today's reality, as you claim.

  3. #18
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    Re: "Being Slick isn't always being right"

    Shit. You know what I mean. Quarter century. So upon what are you basing your claims then, if you you were last on a college campus in the 70s?
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  4. #19
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    Re: "Being Slick isn't always being right"

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    Shit. You know what I mean. Quarter century. So upon what are you basing your claims then, if you you were last on a college campus in the 70s?
    Hey, you throw it out, I bite. Thanks for estimating on the low side...

    What claims? I've made none about college life in this thread.

  5. #20
    Joined
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    Re: "Being Slick isn't always being right"

    Quote Originally Posted by afalzone
    Trekrider,

    What college have you attended recently that would back up the impression that you've been given?
    Do I have to be enrolled in school to form an opinion?? Not that it's revelant to the statement I made... Amarillo city college 1977-79.

    What do I base my opinion on? Lets start with the main stream media, then other sources that you would object to, then personal observations I have made while traveling to/from work at the Minnesota University campus (Minneapolis)(also bicycling in/around this same campus and talking to the kids there).
    There are none so blind as those who will not see!

  6. #21
    Joined
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    Re: "Being Slick isn't always being right"

    HERE! HERE! This thread is supposed to be about my failure [as a parent] to prep my son for college! :-P (Actually, I am slamming myself for keeping him inside the protective bubble of private school)

    Aye, if I had it to do over.............

    ain't that life.............
    -TMack

    "Forgive everyone for everything"

  7. #22
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    Re: "Being Slick isn't always being right"

    I'd be willing to bet he has more values then you realize!
    There are none so blind as those who will not see!

  8. #23
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    Re: "Being Slick isn't always being right"

    I think he will be more prepaired than you think if he were in home schooling all his life than maybe he would be in a bit of a pinch. My two young cousins were home schooled their whole life and lasted less than a year at Indiana University. My former girlfriend attended a small catholic school and has become a fine teacher.

  9. #24
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    Re: "Being Slick isn't always being right"

    If its anything to you mack, I went to a smaller public school and was terribly sheltered all my life. Your son probably will change in college, but if you put a good head on his shoulders he'll be fine, I know I am.
    Well I won't back down, no I won't back down You can stand me up at the gates of hell But I won't back down Gonna stand my ground, won't be turned around And I'll keep this world from draggin' me down.Gonna stand my ground and I won't back down

  10. #25
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    Re: "Being Slick isn't always being right"

    [QUOTE=/\/\adGamer] My two young cousins were home schooled their whole life and lasted less than a year at Indiana University. QUOTE]

    OK. I just gotta ask. What exactly took them out?

    Heh. My wife just called me and said they had a Chapel meeting today in School for my son's Senior class to discuss the student (at UGA) who died Sunday from binge drinking.
    My son said, "it was just another one of those 'in one ear, and out the other' lectures" [as usual].

    Sheesh. They just don't think it can happen to *them*.....................
    -TMack

    "Forgive everyone for everything"

  11. #26
    Joined
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    4,385

    Re: "Being Slick isn't always being right"

    I had to read that article twice. I thought that the guy was
    actually joking. He's serious about everything. The guy sounds like a 70 year
    old virgin who lives in a closet. He says that just because someome has
    convinced you of something doesn't mean that it is right. He seems to be
    oblivious to the fact that this principle might be
    applied to the dogma given to a kid who has been forced to go to a private
    religious school for all of his or her life. People learn to challenge
    EVERYTHING that has been fed to them as they learn to think critically. This
    includes everything that a professor may or may not say and also any BS fed to
    the person by a nutjob like this author.

    What the plastercine personality author claims that it was long after college
    that he learned to think for himself. The college experience forces you to
    think for yourself. You have to. Most students don't instantaneously change into
    the particular bias of their instructor. Those who take biology don't suddenly
    become biologists. Those with instructors who go fishing on the weekend don't
    suddenly become biologists.

    The whole difference between a trades education and a college education is that
    the latter focuses on theory. Throughout the college experience you
    are constantly writing essays and you have to back up what you're saying. You
    simply do NOT have to agree with a professor given what you think is his or her
    bias. You need to backup whatever points you are making very well. You learn
    how to properly deal with differening opinions, come up with your own ideas and
    defend them. This is much like the permachurch that this guy would like people
    to live in until they are 50 or so where you are fed the ideas, not really asked
    to question them much and your whole point in the organization is to conform.

    "Tell your child about binge drinking, and dope and when you do, use the words
    “puke and die” a lot."
    Yes, do that. Watch how quickly your kids realize you're full of it. It is
    religious nutjobs have perverted the drinking laws in this
    country to a point that young adults really have no concept of how to deal with
    alcohol. Look at the drinking patterns of teens in the US vs. Canada. The
    country that doesn't approach things such as alcohol with a fire and brimstone
    mentality have MUCH fewer problems with alcohol abuse when young adults first
    try it. Of course, he wants you to talk to your kids about dope (aka pot), but
    he conveniently ignores wanting to talk to them about the difference between
    soft and hard drugs and how well your brain will function then next day when
    you've taken pot vs. exctasy for example. It's sort of funny how guys like this hate
    alcohol, but every Sunday they're mimiking the last supper where Jesus and his
    buddies were drinking wine.

    When you want to talk to your kids about alcohol and drugs, give them the facts
    and be sure that they know the risks involved. Being able to tell them about
    things like the dangers of drinking hard alcohol, the long term side effects of
    heavier drugs and even something like the recovery position is going to get you
    much farther than telling them they're going to go to hell for having a beer.
    If you haven't completely sheltered them and made all of their decisions for
    them then they should have the ability to look out for themselves. If you have
    done this, however, then you probably haven't done an ideal job of parenting.

    "I just visited a post college kid I watched grow up and he blew out his guts
    with binge drinking." Is anyone else's BS detector picking up anything here?
    Blew out his guts? There aren't many young professionals that I have met who
    have had this happen. Hospitals the world over are not filled with college students
    at the end of each semester, Superbowl Sunday, mid-term break, etc. This guy
    is trying to use scare tactics to parents because he can't come up with any
    real world negatives when it comes to responsible consumption of alcohol.

    "Date-rape drugs are not as rare as you hope."
    Actually, they are more rare than reported. Many times it is simply an excuse
    used when women OD on something they probably shouldn't have taken and end up in
    the ER, but don't want to get in trouble. This guy, irresonsponsibly, doesn't
    talk about the proper advice to give when it comes to things like this. Stick
    with your friends and when you go to bars, don't leave a drink lying around and
    make sure you see the bartender pour your drink. This is just another scare
    tactic to try to stop girls from going out and having sex on a Friday night.
    The undertone is designate your ugly unpopular holy roller roomate to make sure
    you don't possibly make out with any guy once you have had a drink or two and
    you'll go straight to hell if you have three.

    "Young women are meat in an age of lascivious and predatory men, and nowhere
    more so than on campus."
    Predatory men? This guy is hallucinating. Women are much more predatory in our
    society than men ever are. They mature first, have more partners and know how
    to play the opposite sex much better than men do. Of course, this guy probably
    doesn't realize what goes on at bible camp and why so many kids looooove coming
    back every year. Sure, women have to be careful walking around a dark campus at
    night, but you can be damn sure they're given all of the resources they need at
    the school and they don't need some holy roller warping their minds.

    "you are really telling your children nothing they doesn’t already know about
    substance abuse"
    Nothing they doesn't? Is this guy mentally challenged? He went to college?
    Was it one of those in Caribbean where you send in $20 to get a degree. It's
    called spell check you moron. You'd think that a guy writing something that was
    put on MSN might bother with having someone proof his work. I think you should
    have some serious misgivings about taking ADVICE ON WHAT YOUR KIDS SHOULD OR
    SHOULDN'T DO IN COLLEGE FROM A GUY WHO DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO PROPERLY CONJUGATE A
    VERB.

    I should also point out that giving your kids sex advice from a guy who probably
    hasn't had that much of it might be a bad idea also. I'm pretty sure that your
    college students can figure out sex and relationships for themselves. Notice how this guy
    doesn't talk about safe sex, but only babbles about how having sex outside of a
    relationship is akin to being paid to have sex in front of a video camera?
    Another scare tactic. Sex bad, marriage good. Of course, someone taking this
    advice will end up having sex anyways (it is college after all) and when they do
    they'll likely not have a condom. You can pat yourself on the back as a good
    parent when little Johnny has to leave school because his johnson fell off or he
    has to support a pregnent girlfriend.

    "we were probably the last of the generation to find a spouse at college."
    Yes, nobody ever find their spouse at college.

    "“He completes me” from the movie “Jerry McGuire” tell her to lose his phone
    number and e-mail address immediately."
    Yes, your daughter who is in love with someone she met at college (even though
    people don't find a spouse at college) says something about how much she loves a
    guy and now you should attack her for it. You should maybe give her a gentle
    ribbing for using a cliche, but attacking your kids when they have found someone
    that they truly love will not benefit your relationship with them. Unless you
    like spending Christmas at home along wondering if they're going to call, you
    might want to try encouragement instead of hate.

    "Tell them to find the student religious center and go there for at least one
    prayer service and some social dinners." Go for it. Do you think they'll
    listen? Let's see, go listen to boring jerkoff babble on about stuff someone
    has already told me or go hang out with my friends and have fun. When you have
    to resort to paying your kids to keep control over them, you've become a pretty
    pathetic parent.

    "It is moving to see kids who don’t get dragged to worship services by their
    parents decide to attend on their own."
    Didn't he just give the advice that you should pay your kids to do this? I
    guess the on their own means attending on their own after their controlling
    parents have decided to pay them to do it. How inspiring.

    "It is one of my best proofs for the existence of God."
    Yes, being able to pay someone to do ANYTHING is surely proof for the existence
    of God. Perhaps we should add paying kids to go to church into the, "What would
    it take to make you believe" thread we have going on here.

    "I once thought my daughter Mara was lost to Judaism"
    Nice tolerance there pal. Those evil Jewish people. No doubt they'd have her
    doing live human sacrifices before too long.

    "I never worried about her again…in that regard."
    Hey wait, wasn't Jesus a jew? Why is it that in that regard somehow gives the
    same connotation as you people or one of those. Real open minded guy we have
    here.

    "No matter how much money you have, make your kid do something to help pay the
    college bills or give back to the community."
    One piece of good advice. I'm amazed.

    "The most corrosive force in human life is loneliness, and it is impossible for
    a kid raised in a loving home to go away to college and not feel a touch
    lonely."
    I would think that fear would be much more corrosive, but if your kids are
    seriously lonely in a place where they're surroudned by a few thousand people of
    their same age and interests then you've done a pretty bad job of teaching them
    social skills.

  12. #27
    Joined
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    4,385

    Re: "Being Slick isn't always being right"

    Sorry my post was so long I had to make it two posts.

    "Falling and flying, falling and flying. It makes me believe that God had a kid
    in college."

    Falling and what? Huh? God had a kid in college? This guy believes that?
    Jesus didn't go to college and he's the only begotten son. Isn't that
    blasphemy? Can we get an inquisition put together here?

    The values that a person has and the beliefs they hold should be those of
    themselves, not of the preconceived ideas that their parents hold and have been
    told to deeply indoctrinate into their children. They might lose their faith,
    they might gain their faith. The point is the word 'they' is what is important
    here. The they refers to the offspring, not the parents. If you've done a good
    job in raising your kids, they'll do perfectly well at college. They might
    drink, do drugs, have sex (judging from the Maxim college sex survey I read recently
    you daughter will probably make out with another girl), read lots, fight
    for grades, learn things that completely blow their minds, develop critical
    thinking skills, practical workplace skills and a ton of socialization skills.
    In any rate, they'll be fine. The college experience in this country hasn't
    morphed into something new over the past number of years. No matter what
    fanatical, evangelist, religious, crazy, social conservatives might tell you.

  13. #28
    Joined
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    4,385

    Re: "Being Slick isn't always being right"

    "I agree that it SHOULD be the job of the Teacher/Instructor/Professor to teach the course and encourage the student to look at things from various angles. It seems that the current standard practice for these campus's is NOT to "open ones mind" to different points of view, but to INDOCTRINATE those students to that Teacher/Instructor/Professor's point of view.....and it's usually a Liberal one."

    Just because Fox Opinion says that the most teachers are liberal does not mean that you have to spent your time writing essays espousing that point of view. What you can be sure of is that when you write from any point of view when writing a college level essay that you need to back up what you are saying and present your arguments in a clearly explained fashion. YOu can write opinions in any way you want in college as long as you can back up your opinions. In the case where you feel that your essay has been misread, there are policies and procedures in college departments to have essays read by other faculty. When you take a course such as a higher level medeival history your professor will likely be talking about conservative and radical views of the historical record. You can easily espouse either point of view as long as you back it up. Such topics are, after all, continually debated in periodicals that the professors read.

    College professors are not able to sway that far from curriculum to indoctrinate students. Have you ever taken a look at the list of suggested readings for any course. They're not filled with communist propaganda. I guess you seem to forget that it is the conservatives these days who are most interested in buddying up with commies. Taken a look at a label in Walmart these days?

    I sincerely suggest that before you start casting the stone at colleges, you take some time and do a night course or two. Your recollection of what a community college was like 25 years ago combined with what you've been told by your handlers doesn't represent the common college experience.

    "procrastination, cramming, waiting til the last minute, consuming your body weight in beer, and of course, how to make a bong out of anything :-)"

    With the exception of the bong rip, that would be not unlike what many business people go through in their daily lives now.

    "Agree. 100%.

    Yeah, I actually thought my conservatism would have rubbed off on him by now. And it has for the most part. But then someone showed him Michael Moore's Farenheight 911 during the last election cycle and he really bought into it....until I turned around and showed him Farenhype 911. ONly then did he understand the true meaning of being slick.

    But I still say he's extremely vulnerable... to the likes of Michael Moore. (Which is why I really wanted him to study Drama - which again, he wanted no part of!)

    Oh, FWIW, he's looking seriously at Auburn University. But he can't seem to make up his mind......."

    It seems from your post that you're still worried about giving your son your opinions. I think that what you'll find as he goes through college is that he'll learn to question opinions that he's given. Sure, he bought wholesale into F911. You showed him something else and he probably bought into all of that. After a few years of college, he'll probably see that there is some wisdom in each. Michael Moore does some interesting and funny documentaries that have some good points, but need to be taken with a grain of salt. He'll probably see some truth and some BS in your opinions. The important thing is that he'll learn to think critically and originally. He may or may not agree with you, but in the end he'll probably be able to beat you in a debate on any opinion he has. You should be happy though. Parents should hope that their children grow up to be smarter than they are.

    In so far as beating yourself up for having him in a private school, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Just make sure he has the facts if he chooses to do things like drink, have sex, etc. Really try to educate him on time management and organization skills. I'd also push the idea that there's a time to play hard and a time to work hard and they don't overlap. He's a smart kid I'm sure and he'll pick up the social skills he needs to know.

    Auburn is a good school and I hope he has a great experience.

  14. #29
    Joined
    Mar 2005
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    Twin Cities,MN
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    2,152

    Re: "Being Slick isn't always being right"

    I guess that's the difference between you and me, afal.........I don't have a "handler"!
    There are none so blind as those who will not see!

  15. #30
    Joined
    May 2001
    Location
    MS,LA,GA,& AR
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    4,439

    Re: "Being Slick isn't always being right"

    Thanks for putting forth such a well thought out post!

    I think I'll print it out for him - [after he reads the original].
    -TMack

    "Forgive everyone for everything"

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