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  1. #1
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    Attention: 24-pin PSU is Required!!

    Updated: 2/4/07

    It's been almost a year since I've had my Ultra-D, and the single issue that keeps popping up is:
    "Do I need a 24-pin PSU?"

    Answer: Yes, you do.

    Okay, why? It's not stated in the manual that a 24-pin PSU is required.

    Answer: Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but DFI (along with other companies) reserves the right to make changes without reissuing the manual. According to information from DFI-Street, who get the words straight from the DFI Taiwan offices, your power supply MUST meet these minimum requirements:

    -480W or greater
    -24-pin Native ATX connector (no adapters)
    -25A on the 12V
    -OR-
    -25A via combination of the 12V rails (like 2 15A 12V rails)

    DFI is not the only company using 24-pin ATX connectors on their motherboards, and the industry doesn't make power requirement changes for the fun of it. There is a reason, and I believe swaaye has put it best in a response in this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by swaaye
    It's because the current draw through the 12v lines was too much for the 20pin connector to handle. I have a old Abit Athlon board without the quad plug supplement where the ATX 20-pin has actually burnt somewhat. What happens is the connector itself has horrible resistance because it is just a poor mating between the wires there, and also the connector oxidizes over time and increases resistance. If you pull too much current through that connector it will literally heat up and melt things, like I saw. The board still works. I cleaned up that connector by filing it a bit to get rid of the black oxidation.

    I used to build electric RC cars which have motors which draw insane amperage. They have VERY fancy connectors you can buy that minimize resistance. But really the best way to go is direct soldering because connectors NEVER offer a quality connection and do degrade over time.

    Obviously our computers are sucking far more electricity than ever before. The current demands on the 12v part of that 20-pin connector was more than it could handle, even with the added quad pin 12v supplement. So they added even more 12v lines. The DFI boards have even more supplementary power connections though. I once forgot once to plug those in and it worked fine lol. But the point of those plugs is to reduce load further on the various high resistance connections and reduce the risk of damage.
    Obviously, soldering will void your warranty (for those of us who are concerned about voiding our warranties ), so we can't do that, but we can have a good power supply. Think about it: you're investing a good chunk of cash into your bad-mutha rig, yet, you want to skimp on the correct power supply because of the cost? This is like buying a Ferrari, or any high-end car that requires premium gas, but you want to put in regular because premium is more expensive. If you can't afford the gas (i.e. Power supply), then why get the car (i.e. your pimpin' power box)?

    Not all PSU's are equal, and you can see what some of us are using in the DFI NF4 Builder's Guide, our wonderful mod, Electric Bill started, complete with an OC database.

    To help you find a decent power supply that fulfills the DFI requirements and are quality builds, here's a very short list of units that run under $100:

    550W and up
    Antec TruePower TPII-550 550W (SLI Certified)
    Hiper HPU-4K580-MS 580W (SLI Certified) [Modular]
    Sparkle FSP550PLG-SLI 550W (SLI Certified)

    500W-549W
    Antec NeoHE 500 500W (SLI Certified) [Modular]
    FSP/Fortron AX-500-A 500W
    Enermax EG565P-VE 535W (SLI Certified)
    Silverstone SST-ST50EF 500W (SLI Certified)

    480W-499W
    Antec TruePower TPII-480 480W
    Antec TrueBlue TPII-480 480W
    Enermax Noisetaker EG495P-VE 485W
    Tagan TG-480-U22 480W

    These are not the only good power supplies out there, but they are some of the less expensive units out there that meet DFI's requirements. There are great ones over $100, but again, this is just to point out good ones that will do the job without costing you a kidney. While I hate to generalize, the following is a list of companies who regularly produce solid power supplies that should be considered, as the above units may not always be available.

    Good PSU Brands for DFI boards (there are other's, but stick to these to be safe) :
    -Antec
    -Corsair
    -Enermax
    -FSP
    -Fortron
    -OCZ
    -PC Power & Cooling
    -Tagan
    -Topower
    -TTGI
    -Sparkle
    -Seasonic
    -Silverstone


    Again, this is not to say that you will never find a bad PSU from these companies, but these brands have shown to be fairly solid. It is also not to say there aren't other brands with worthy units, however, the said companies have shown to be solid units. As such, the following is a list of some brands to avoid due to various quality issues:

    -Aerocool
    -Apevia (formerly Aspire)
    -Coolmax
    -Logisys
    -Powmax (remember, they go POW! when you use them )
    -In Win

    Also, as a rule of thumb, if the unit is included in your case, then avoid it. A good PSU is going to start at around $80-120. If you have a $50 case with a power supply in it, what are the odds it's including some high-quality parts in it? Not very. As per the subject, it's not a good idea to skimp on the PSU.

    Supershanks has some more info regarding higher-wattage power supplies and multiple 12V rails further down here.

    What about modular power supplies?

    Well, there's nothing screaming "NO, Don't Do It!", but it's not necessarily encouraged either. The thought behind this is that the connections add resistance to the current, and make the power supply work harder. This goes back to why swaaye said that the best connections are soldered, because of the more solid (and permanent) contact between the connections. The other point is that they cost more than similar wattage power supplies, which may not be a big deal to you. Technology may very well improve these conditions, but the issue will still be there in some capacity. The main concern would be if the main power connector is modular or not. I have added some modular power supplies that fit DFI's requirements, however, I would still recommend a non-modular power supply over a modular unit.

    Thanks for listening to this service message from your local DFI Ninja.
    Last edited by Big B-man; 02-04-2007 at 03:17 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Attention: 24-pin PSU is Required!!

    Good Post... How's about a temp sticky ?
    Let's add a few to the list.
    Last edited by Drisler; 02-05-2006 at 02:23 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Attention: 24-pin PSU is Required!!

    That's really funny because I was going to ask Big_B_Man to come up with a PSU thread and I would sticky it.
    My HTPC

    ASRock 970 Extreme3
    AMD FX-4100 w/Coolermaster GeminII S cooler
    M Station HT-1100 HTPC Media Center case
    Antec 480 NeoPower PSU
    Kingston HyperX Blu 8GB KHX1600C9D3B1K2/8GX
    Gigabyte GV-R467ZL 4670/1GB video card
    Hitachi HDS721050CLA362 500GB SATA hd
    Windows7 Ultimate x64 & Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (partitioned)
    Pioneer DVR-215D SATA DVD burner
    Samsung 40" 1080p 120Hz LCD HDTV LN40C630


    You can teach an old dog; it just takes longer.

  4. #4
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    Re: Attention: 24-pin PSU is Required!!

    Yeah, I've thought about doing one, but never got around to it. With all the PSU-related threads coming up again, I figured it'd be a good idea to put something like this up and hope for a sticky. Enough evidence was easily available to point out today, so I just got going.

  5. #5
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    Re: Attention: 24-pin PSU is Required!!

    Info updated with a few more power supplies that fit the bill.

  6. #6
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    Re: Attention: 24-pin PSU is Required!!

    I am looking into getting my system together and want to make sure I order the right ps. I am looking at the enermax noisetaker 600w here Is 20 + 4 pin acceptable? are 2 12v rails at 18a enough to power 4 sata 2 hd, 2 optical drives, 3 case fans and 2 7800gtx video cards with an x2 processor? This is an expensive decission especially if i choose wrong. BTW this is on an nf4 sli-dr. Thanks for the help, Mike

  7. #7
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    Re: Attention: 24-pin PSU is Required!!

    Yeah, that'll work great. I was just pointing out good sub $100 units.

  8. #8
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    PSU's and DFI MB's

    Check this link here in the forum:

    http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=415557

    I never realized the affect that PSU had on performance. I have the Seasonic 600W which seems impressive but it one looks at the specs you will soon see that it has 2 "rails" 12V rated each at 18A. That means one is dedicated to the CPU and MB and the other runs all the goodies.

    If you will notice in the post "Supershanks" points out that inspite of what seems an impressive PSU (600Watts!) and am maxing my PSU with my configuration - which I never thought of - so watts are important but look at the power in Amps of each rail.

    I since then have ordered the PC Power and Cooling 1K PSU - yes it is expensive but so are some of the components on this system.

    Just a note then - if you are having boot problems, reboots, freezes it just may be your PSU.
    Coolermaster Comos S
    Asus Striker II Formula 780i SLI Chipset
    (Quad-Core)Intel Core2 Extreme QX9650 @ 3.90GHz
    Asetek Liquid CPU Cooling System
    Dell UltraSharp 3007WFP-HC
    Dell UltraSharp 3008WFP-HC
    Thermaltake ToughPower 1,200 Watt Power Supply
    8GB (4X2GB) Mushkin XP2-6400/800 DDR2
    2 X EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GX2 9800 SLI
    G.SKILL Phoenix Pro 120 SSD
    WD 300GB VelociRaptor
    2 X 750GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 7200RPM 16MB CACHE HD
    1XHitachi 1TB SATA II
    2 X LiteOn LH-20A1H DVD-RWs
    Creative Labs X-FI Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit
    Logitech Z-5500's
    Headroom Headphone Amp
    Sennheiser 650HD Headset

  9. #9
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    Re: PSU's and DFI MB's

    Watts don't mean jack shit. Other than the math, the wattage is a pretty iffy way of measuring the power supply. It combines the 12V, 3.3V and 5V rails in the equation. I've seen some so-called 500W have about the same specs as my Sparkle and Antec 350W units in terms of amperages. Additionally, the better power supplies tend to use more of the good parts. PC Power & Cooling is basically your Rolls Royce of power supplies: good, but way too damn expensive for most of us. I'm willing to go with a hot rod instead.

  10. #10
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    Re: PSU's and DFI MB's

    I've always found to that when dealing with PSUs of gneric variety or something I haven't heard of in the past a lot can be judged simply by the weight of the unit. A heavy 300 watter may indded outperform a lightweight 500 watter.
    DFI T2RS, Q9450@3.4, 2X1gig Ballistix, EVGA 460GTX
    Gigabyte EP45-DS3L, Q6600@3.2Ghz, OCZ 6400 DDR2, EVGA 9850
    ASUS P5K-E WiFi, Q6600@3.2ghz, 2X1gig Mushkin XP2 6400 DDR2, EVGA 260GTX
    ASUS P5Q-Pro Turbo, Q9450@3.4Ghz, 2X1gig Mushkin HP 6400 DDR2 EVGA 9850
    ASUS P5K Prem WiFi Q9450@3.4Ghz, 2X2gb OCZ DDR2 800, MSI 460GTX Cyclone
    Gigabyte EP35-DS3R, Q6600 , 2X1gig Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800, EVGA 9800GT
    ASUS P5K Prem WiFi Q9450@3.4Ghz 2X2gb OCZ DDR2 800, Asus 9850GTX
    Gigabyte EP45-DS3R, Q6600@3.2Ghz, 2X1gb Corsair XMS 12-4-4-4, BFG9850GTX
    Gigabyte EP45-DS3L, Q9450@3.4, 2X1gb Corsair XMS 12-4-4-4, BFG9850GTX

  11. #11
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    Re: PSU's and DFI MB's

    rpbrown - Great choice You can't go wrong with that, probably even power your xmas tree

    What i think is particularly bad at the moment are the super big 650-700W units hat are coming out which are 4x12v rails.

    I just upgraded my psu & did a bit of research 1st. I'm glad i did of the supplies i considered a number had potential overloads on 1 or more 12v rails:-

    My current rig, see siggy was about topping out on the 12v rail mainly due to the OC on my opteron using the excellent Tagan 480 + thinking about maybe water cooling + any gfx upgrade will take more 12v amps :-
    Power usage
    I like to run with a max load of 80% of PSU capacity -this means unit is not getting overheated & less efficient & will continually give a decent stable supply.

    So Considered the newest & best:-
    1) Akasa POWERPLUS 650W VERSION 2 AK-P650FF-BKUKV2 / SilverStone Zeus ST65ZF 650W / SilverStone Strider ST60F

    - Are basically the same units with identical rail specs. 1st 2 being the non modular 80mm fan versions the strider uses 120mm fan.


    Thing that concerns me here is 12v4 molex lines - If i add watercooling pump @ say 2.5A then 12V4 is 97% utilised with 7.8A load. Given an ideal load is around 80% should this be a concern.

    2) FSP (Epsilon) FX700-GLN 700W
    120mm fan should be quieter than the Akasa & ST65ZF 80mm is more efficient BUT
    Rail Utilisation:-

    12v3 with the Molex is again the problem but with 12A available is a bit better.

    Other downer is only 12M guarantee compared with 36M for others.
    a gfx card with no PCI-E power lead may give issues see Note

    3) Enermax Coolergiant 660W EG851AX-VH

    Specs were the hardest to track down.
    Now I could live with that - No rail is particularly stressed & option is there as with FSP for an 8pin-4pin adapter so that cpu can be fed from both 12V1 & 12V2. Plenty of amps if i upgrade gfx + enough molex power 4 water cooling.

    Also Nvidia SLi Certified though no mention of Crossfire 18A on 12v2 may not be enough.

    Looks the most promising out of the selection with no particular weaknesses.

    Note: BUT Some gfx cards don't have a pci-e power connector - my current 6600GT so the 12v supply is drawn from the pci-e slot from the motherboard. This can then cause further complication:-
    For example. FSP FX700-GLN 700W - Ooops 12v3 has just been hammered now pulling 14A 117% with 12V4 unused.

    I contacted Silverstone , Fsp & Enermax asking for confirmation of my findings & have recieved ......nothing. FSP (Epsilon) FX700-GLN 700W Queries So in the end i went with the Silverstone Zeus ST56ZF which is another single 12v rail PSU (38A) this was 88 compared with 128 for the Coolergiant 660W EG851AX-VH.

    The main reason for this post is to warn people to check carefully b4 buying dual rail & particularly x4 12v rail models, you may not be getting what you think.

    & avoid these issues :-
    The newest high-end PCs run into some trouble

    I had to read the manuals & drawings to discover which rails are serving which components, my concern is for other users who look at these supplies & assume 650w/700w will work great.
    Mobo:Asus P5K Deluxe Wifi CPU: Core2Duo 6600 on water
    Mem:Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500 DDR2 2X1GB 5-5-5-15 2.2v Gfx:320MB BFG 8800GTS OC Clock 580 mem 1700 + Dell 2007WFP PSU:Etasis ET-850 3.3v= 28A 5v=30A 12v=70ASATAHitachi II 4x80Gb Matrix Raid 0 + 250gb+320GB OSWinXPPro SP2 Case:Lian-Li V2000B Plus 24/7 OC 3600=400x9@2:3=1200
    Some people believe football is a matter of life and death,it is much, more important than that - Bil Shankly

  12. #12
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    Re: PSU's and DFI MB's

    "Good show" as you would say in the "Empire." the post will surely help others.

    Thank you for your efforts.

    R Brown
    "The Colonies"
    Coolermaster Comos S
    Asus Striker II Formula 780i SLI Chipset
    (Quad-Core)Intel Core2 Extreme QX9650 @ 3.90GHz
    Asetek Liquid CPU Cooling System
    Dell UltraSharp 3007WFP-HC
    Dell UltraSharp 3008WFP-HC
    Thermaltake ToughPower 1,200 Watt Power Supply
    8GB (4X2GB) Mushkin XP2-6400/800 DDR2
    2 X EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GX2 9800 SLI
    G.SKILL Phoenix Pro 120 SSD
    WD 300GB VelociRaptor
    2 X 750GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 7200RPM 16MB CACHE HD
    1XHitachi 1TB SATA II
    2 X LiteOn LH-20A1H DVD-RWs
    Creative Labs X-FI Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit
    Logitech Z-5500's
    Headroom Headphone Amp
    Sennheiser 650HD Headset

  13. #13
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    Re: PSU's and DFI MB's

    R Brown "The Colonies"
    Hehe
    Glad to help old boy
    Mobo:Asus P5K Deluxe Wifi CPU: Core2Duo 6600 on water
    Mem:Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500 DDR2 2X1GB 5-5-5-15 2.2v Gfx:320MB BFG 8800GTS OC Clock 580 mem 1700 + Dell 2007WFP PSU:Etasis ET-850 3.3v= 28A 5v=30A 12v=70ASATAHitachi II 4x80Gb Matrix Raid 0 + 250gb+320GB OSWinXPPro SP2 Case:Lian-Li V2000B Plus 24/7 OC 3600=400x9@2:3=1200
    Some people believe football is a matter of life and death,it is much, more important than that - Bil Shankly

  14. #14
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    Re: Attention: 24-pin PSU is Required!!

    I merged these threads Attention: 24-pin PSU is Required!! and PSU's and DFI MB's since they deal with the same subject.The Management.
    My HTPC

    ASRock 970 Extreme3
    AMD FX-4100 w/Coolermaster GeminII S cooler
    M Station HT-1100 HTPC Media Center case
    Antec 480 NeoPower PSU
    Kingston HyperX Blu 8GB KHX1600C9D3B1K2/8GX
    Gigabyte GV-R467ZL 4670/1GB video card
    Hitachi HDS721050CLA362 500GB SATA hd
    Windows7 Ultimate x64 & Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (partitioned)
    Pioneer DVR-215D SATA DVD burner
    Samsung 40" 1080p 120Hz LCD HDTV LN40C630


    You can teach an old dog; it just takes longer.

  15. #15
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    Re: Attention: 24-pin PSU is Required!!

    Cool. I was thinking of linking the info in, but now, no need.

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