Page 3 of 36 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 526
  1. #31
    Joined
    May 2002
    Location
    Twain Harte, CA
    Posts
    20,453

    Re: Thousands march to support law breakers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert3
    So...who was it, in this thread, that asked if Jennifer Garcia is a citizen of the U.S.? Who asked if any of the four children mentioned were born in the U.S.?
    Do ya have some info to share or do ya just wanna criticize the slanted views of those of us who have a firm grasp of the obvious? Don't bother answering... its rhetorical.

  2. #32
    Joined
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Indian-uhhh
    Age
    38
    Posts
    5,807

    Re: Thousands march to support law breakers.

    Quote Originally Posted by /\/\adGamer
    "Congress is considering bills that would make it a felony to be illegally in the United States, impose new penalties on employers who hire illegal immigrants and erect fences along one-third of the U.S.-Mexican border. The proposals have angered many Hispanics."

    Thats a start but whats to consider? I say do it now dont wait or ponder on it.
    Maybe I'm wrong, but don't we have existing laws...oh, wait, why enforce those? That'd mean actual work.

  3. #33
    Joined
    Apr 2003
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    4,217

    Re: Thousands march to support law breakers.

    Ah and now the rest of you are also starting to see my points. For me it's not about race, creed, or color. It's about the saftey, welfare, and prosperity of MY country.

    I could careless about what some hispanic, mexican, brazilian ~ what ever, whom ever, thinks or says. This is The United States NOT Mexico, and we have the right to defend our border, and preserve OUR way of life using what ever means WE deem necessary. We answer to NO country.

    The words "give me your poor, your tired" ect.ect.ect., these were written long ago, and were ment for a time when the world was a very different place, It no longer applies. Lest I mention at that time learning English WAS REQUIRED when you came to this country. Not oh, you poor soul, here let me give and give and give, what? you cant speak English, oh that's ok, well change the American system FOR you. Who cares what Generations of Americans think, we are the government- we will do as WE dictate.

    How about this, how about Mexico take care of THEIR OWN people, this so they do not have to come here and impose their ways, and muck up our system with cries of "discrimination" "un-fair pay" and so on and so on. And while that's going on how about we the American public take our country back from the corrupt government we have, and kick out the corporations from our system of government once and for all.

    It's not the Mexicans persons fault to want a better life, it's Mexico's fault for not taking care of their own people, and some of this responsilbilty lies in many parts of North and South American governments as well.

    It is a moral obligation to help your fellow man~ no doubt. However, HELP does not include giving a free ride and laterial changes with in your own country to subsidize helping your "fellow man" from another country at the expense of your own citizens. It's time to draw a line.

    Remember the above when next you vote, remember the above when next you hire someone, remember the above, do something- take some action!!!

    If you ignore the problem, you are part of the problem, because if you, me, WE do not do something now, in 10 years most of the South Western United States will belong to Mexico, once again.
    Last edited by alpha_03; 03-25-2006 at 02:06 PM.
    Nebraska Game and Parks



    I've been at this a long time and I still know nothing!! High end digitized ~ analog, turkey hunter.

    American Audio Nut- my gear- JBL, DBX, Revel, Thorens, Shure, Odyssey, M&K, AB International, Van Alstine, PS Audio, Pioneer, Trio, Dynaco, Integra Research, Audio Research, and JBL Pro.

  4. #34
    Joined
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    2,701

    Re: Thousands march to support law breakers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar
    Do ya have some info to share or do ya just wanna criticize the slanted views of those of us who have a firm grasp of the obvious? Don't bother answering... its rhetorical.
    Gee, you may take the opportunity to forgive me for disobeying you, then again, you may not...
    I was just curious to know if anyone had ascertained Jennifer Garcia's citizenship, particularly prior to suggesting she leave the country. It struck me that the general support for legal immigrants to the U. S. expressed in this thread may exceed the support for citizens of the U. S...
    What the genteel demand is something of themselves. What the vulgar demand is something of others.
    The true church is one's own heart.
    It has been my experience that those who proclaim the world is going to hell in a handbasket are the same ones who are leading the way there with their grip fixed firmly on the handle.
    Why can't you find god? Everyone knows he lives in a little black box.
    A carp who deals in red herrings is a traitor to his species.


  5. #35
    Joined
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    2,225

    Re: Thousands march to support law breakers.

    I think this is just another case of businesses and governments scratching each other's backs. From a business point of view, it's no different that building factories in China or Malaysia. The difference is that it affects us more directly. As others have said, I don't blame illegal immigrants for wanting a better life; it's employers and law enforcement that enable it by looking the other way.
    -soplcod

  6. #36
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    8,887

    Re: Thousands march to support law breakers.

    My, the melons have thick rinds lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by sopclod
    As others have said, I don't blame illegal immigrants for wanting a better life; it's employers and law enforcement that enable it by looking the other way.
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal
    You and your children are parts from a stolen car and you ask to be legitimized?
    What comforting words from a man of Christ. I think you ought to answer Robert's question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big B-Man
    Rosa Parks really doesn't mirror what's going on with illegal immigration. We have illegal immigrants who are being paid and getting services that should be exclusive to United States citizens. Rosa Parks was NOT getting illegal treatment at the time. It was the law, regardless of if you agree on that issue or not. In Rosa Parks case, the law was enforced; with illegal immigrants, it is not. Creative, but no dice, Orang.
    I did not say that Rosa Parks mirrored the current illegal immigration issue. Rather, I said that Rosa Parks' situation is applicable because she broke the law and people marched in support of her. The thread title is, after all, "Thousands march to support law breakers. "

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar
    I also think that illegals should be treated in a similar fashion when checked out by law enforcement as people on parole that are breaking the rules. They should be detained... but instead of being eventually sent to the big house, should be deported... not just right across the border, but to the capitol city of their country. I also think the country that they came from should be charged with ALL the deportation costs and if they don't want to reimburse the costs, they should be sanctioned with something serious.
    That sounds good in theory, but I have the feeling that not only would this not stop or slow illegal immigration but would result in horrific consequences for those returned "home".

    Quote Originally Posted by JungleMan
    Rosa Parks was an illegal immigrant? Wow, what country did she immigrate here from? Was she a citizen of Africa?
    Think. Really hard.

    But don't hurt yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal
    ^^I forgot one thing. When these folks are discovered? Have a new set/series of SS cards made up for the group. That way they are taxpayers.
    Absolutely.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  7. #37
    Joined
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    74,682

    Re: Thousands march to support law breakers.

    I stand corrected on my assumption around her citizenship. And it would be wrong of me to inject my religious beliefs into a secular decision.
    Im pretty understanding of what these folks are attempting by coming to the US. All I ask is they consider the rules...that arent theirs to write.
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 03-25-2006 at 03:07 PM.

  8. #38
    Joined
    May 2002
    Location
    Twain Harte, CA
    Posts
    20,453

    Re: Thousands march to support law breakers.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal
    I stand corrected on my assumption around her citizenship.
    What's so vapid about her story is that her's is but one of hundreds of thousands. My point being that you could easily muster up many that fit your assumptions, even though they may be wrong in this one case. But we get spoonfed these individual cases and are asked to look at them closely, even though its more important to stand back and see the big picture.
    It struck me that the general support for legal immigrants to the U. S. expressed in this thread may exceed the support for citizens of the U.S.
    Is there a difference? Not always. I'm both a legal immigrant AND a US citizen. Can I vote twice?

  9. #39
    Joined
    Apr 2003
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    4,217

    Re: Thousands march to support law breakers.

    I think there is a Huge difference between Rosa Parks and the silent Mexican invasion of America.

    On one hand you have 20 million people (known and at the present) stealing their way into the country, on the other hand you have a group of people that were brought here by force and used as slaves.

    Not to mention those that stood behind her (for the most part) were naturalized African Americans (of some 8 generations worth on the average), obviously, due to the above reasoning. http://www.rosaparks.org/

    I would venture to guess that most standing behind the present deportations are not African Americans, quite the contrary.

    A huge difference to my thinking, and not even worth comparisson.
    Last edited by alpha_03; 03-25-2006 at 04:00 PM.
    Nebraska Game and Parks



    I've been at this a long time and I still know nothing!! High end digitized ~ analog, turkey hunter.

    American Audio Nut- my gear- JBL, DBX, Revel, Thorens, Shure, Odyssey, M&K, AB International, Van Alstine, PS Audio, Pioneer, Trio, Dynaco, Integra Research, Audio Research, and JBL Pro.

  10. #40
    Joined
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    74,682

    Re: Thousands march to support law breakers.

    I understand Orang's reasoning and take stock of the underlying point he is making..and Im pretty sure he used the analogy as a caution more than a real point of arguement or debate. Even if I dont buy the logic as exact, I can pause and appreciate what he's nudging us with: There was a time when all sorts of things were against the law.

    Whats interesting in the thread is were pretty much agreed on several points. Something needs to be done and changes can and will be humane. Not like anyone is suggesting some massive roundup and deportation.

  11. #41
    Joined
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Indian-uhhh
    Age
    38
    Posts
    5,807

    Re: Thousands march to support law breakers.

    Well, that and how realistic would it be to do that? I'm for that idea, but I wonder how easy it would be to implement. It might have to be a combination of fines, deportation, etc.

    I think we should look at who's being productive and offer them a shot at citizenship first, and if they refuse, they get deported.

  12. #42
    Joined
    Apr 2003
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    4,217

    Re: Thousands march to support law breakers.

    Understood JimZ,

    What I was referring to are the legal and different dispositions of the two ethnic groups. One was by force and the other is by choice, one broke no law, and the other has.

    I do not wish to debate civil rights, because, first off, this is not that type of discussion, nor should it become such. However, introducing Rosa Parks into the fold creates a very ambiguous way of debating a non-similar topic. Simply put this is NOT about Americans and prejudice, it's about Mexicans and invasion.

    However, if we are to briefly touch upon this, civil rights apply to Legal US citizens, that are in fact, here by legal means. This is not to say that we shouldn't afford IA's Human rights, I simply believe there is a definite distinction between the two ideas, one should keep this in mind before any consideration is given to such a comparission.

    What I refer to is the uncertain reality that can be compared very easily to an invasion from another country, all be it, with out any "declared war" (i.e the definite distinction I speak of). This, for me, is the deception and the TRUE reality of the problem which I believe many simply do not see because for many- it does not dirrectly effect them. However, at some point the straw will break the proverbial camels back, and then what will have? a Nazi state with in America that hates Mexicans? I certainly hope not, surely there is a better way.

    Sadly, History ALWAYS repeats itself.

    I do not envision Americans becoming more gratuitous, nor should we, however, as many others here, including myself, believe- the line must be drawn and drawn NOW. And yet the question remains HOW?
    Nebraska Game and Parks



    I've been at this a long time and I still know nothing!! High end digitized ~ analog, turkey hunter.

    American Audio Nut- my gear- JBL, DBX, Revel, Thorens, Shure, Odyssey, M&K, AB International, Van Alstine, PS Audio, Pioneer, Trio, Dynaco, Integra Research, Audio Research, and JBL Pro.

  13. #43
    Joined
    Apr 2003
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    4,217

    Re: Thousands march to support law breakers.


    On the contrary, Rosa Parks is quite applicable to this debate. After all, she was an illegal whose actions resulted in thousands marching and protesting her law-breaking cause.
    After quite an extensive search, I have found absolutley NO info stating Rosa Parks was an illegal alien at any point in her life.

    You MUST further explain your meaning of illegal, otherwise you must provide your source material (proof), or, be branded as a liar.
    Last edited by alpha_03; 03-25-2006 at 07:43 PM.
    Nebraska Game and Parks



    I've been at this a long time and I still know nothing!! High end digitized ~ analog, turkey hunter.

    American Audio Nut- my gear- JBL, DBX, Revel, Thorens, Shure, Odyssey, M&K, AB International, Van Alstine, PS Audio, Pioneer, Trio, Dynaco, Integra Research, Audio Research, and JBL Pro.

  14. #44
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    8,887

    Re: Thousands march to support law breakers.

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha_03
    After quite an extensive search, I have found absolutley NO info stating Rosa Parks was an illegal alien at any point in her life.

    You MUST further explain your meaning of illegal, otherwise you must provide your source material (proof), or, be branded as a liar.
    Ah, therein lies the rub. One reason for bringing up Rosa Parks is the spurious nature of the term illegal. A person cannot be illegal, their existence cannot be against the law (yet at least). Calling illegal immigrants illegals is a way that people try to differentiate themselves as fundamentally different from the other group. It's akin to calling someone a(n) racial or ethnic pejorative, really a pejorative of any kind. Illegal satisfies the qualities of the pejorative, functioning as an increasingly less subtle substitute for racial derogatives like our good friend bugala relates. These people are immigrants, by their very nature individuals who have in migrated to this country from another one. They are not illegal, their existence as human beings does not violate some legal code; they are illegal immigrants, aliens, what have you. I mean, come on, there is already a noun in the term! Why would you take the adjective and make it substantive?

    If the definition of illegal relates to breaking the law, then Rosa Parks was an illegal as she broke the law in Montgomery. Every time you speed over the limit, you become an illegal. It's a nothing term, a way for the people on the Right to distance themselves as better (whiter, in reality). The title of the thread says "Thousands march to support law breakers". I brought up Rosa Parks in reaction to the title and to the use of the word illegal. Thousands of people marched in support of that illegal, that law-breaker named Rosa Parks. Just because a law exists does not mean that it is fas. Do you get it yet? Rosa Parks broke the law. Rosa Parks committed an illegal act, just as illegal immigrants migrated illegally.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  15. #45
    Joined
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    74,682

    Re: Thousands march to support law breakers.

    Dont you think thats more of a semantic arguement? Illegal immigrant reduced as a matter of convenience to illegal? As opposed to immigrants that follow law being termed legal immigrants.
    Racial? I think that connotation oversensitizes the issue.
    It may be a nifty set up to associate the acts of illegally entering this country as a civil rights issue, but for me its a weak association.
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 03-25-2006 at 10:41 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •