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  1. #211
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    Re: Conroe Es @ Xs -Goodbye to my X2 and AM2

    Quote Originally Posted by highoctane
    How is dual core implemetation on C2D not done right or not figured out compared to an X2, thats such a blanket statement, whats done wrong, does it multitask worse, is it slower in multithreaded apps, does it not run apps that the X2 can.
    That's the thing: they haven't. The outlook for C2D can only get better when the CrossFire Xpress 3200 Intel Edition (aka RD600) chipset makes it to production. It will support both DDR-2 and DDR-3 memory, and will be appearing at retail on mobos as soon as next month.

    Who cares C2D is faster today, in a year K8L may be faster, then the following year Intel will have something faster, personally I plan to be behind the wheel of C2D as soon as the market stabalizes and will probably switch to K8L after about a year and a half with C2D, if K8L proves to be better.
    It's nice to see someone (besides me) who gets it. This industry moves too quickly to harp on past successes; what I'm concerned with is what have you done for me lately. The C2D is under the spotlight and has performed brilliantly. If the changes were only incremental and only slightly improved over the Core Duo, it would barely register with users or the press and forgotten as quickly as its arrival. Thing is, Intel has finally done dual-core properly and benchmark tests conducted by multiple independent sources reaffirm this. Biases and prejudices aside, as a consumer, what is the best CPU right now (not the preceding months or in the pipeline a year from now) in terms of performance and price? The K8L isn't a consideration because its release isn't imminent. If K8L proves to be a superior alternative when it becomes available, the focus of the discussion should shift their way, but not before then.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGlasMan
    AMD has forced these price drops, do not kid yourself. Personally I think AMD was premature and over aggressive in their drops. Conroe cannot meet demand, which means more spillover to AMD, and higher prices for conroe.
    I think you give AMD far too much credit for Intel's pricing strategy revision where older product lines are concerned. It's as much as AMD having a more competitve product as it does with the introduction of a newer product line (older product lines are discounted because of a) less appealing to consumers, and b) reducing inventory).

    AMD had to make heavy cuts to their lower- and mid-tier offerings because the prices, relative to their performance, became difficult to justify. If AMD didn't make the cuts they did, they risked losing market share.

    While I'm sure there's some spillover to AMD due to Intel's inability to meet demand for C2D CPUs, I think those who are set on a C2D-based machine may be willing to persevere through the initial shortage.

    (intel predictions are about 50 conroes /day per oem thru Q3).
    Source? That number seems far too low for someone of Intel's stature and resources.

  2. #212
    Joined
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    Re: Conroe Es @ Xs -Goodbye to my X2 and AM2

    agree with tgm here, amd caused intel to price cut, without price cut intel was sitting on a giant mound of netburst poopoo, and if they didnt make conroe a more resonable price then they would like to it wouldnt sell worth sh!t because, well when you can get an a64/k8 chip at 1/2 the price thats plenty of power for everyday use and gaming why spend more on a cpu?

    and those numbers for cores/day sound about right, intel is still making netbust shit in most of there fabs, slowly moving over to 65nm conroe, i dont see them getting the supply situation worked out anytime soon, thankfully even intels anti compeditive p4 dumping isnt really hurting amd much, alot of people i see lately have been buying sempron systems from compaq/hp because they are more of a middle ground price/perf system.

    tim a buddy of mine, the one who works at intels test lab, well hes not impressed with conroe and he plays with them every day, hes more impressed with the 24in wide screen monotor he has :P
    he could get conroe system setup, but insted he grabbed an extra a64 rig, because he already knows whats comming next, another socket change within a year and he dosnt like that.
    Funny from what i saw and what hes said most of the test lab people have axp or k8 stuff at home as there main systems, thats sad since they work for intel

  3. #213
    Joined
    Aug 2004
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    10,610

    Re: Conroe Es @ Xs -Goodbye to my X2 and AM2

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivatePixel
    That's the thing: they haven't. The outlook for C2D can only get better when the CrossFire Xpress 3200 Intel Edition (aka RD600) chipset makes it to production. It will support both DDR-2 and DDR-3 memory, and will be appearing at retail on mobos as soon as next month.



    It's nice to see someone (besides me) who gets it. This industry moves too quickly to harp on past successes; what I'm concerned with is what have you done for me lately. The C2D is under the spotlight and has performed brilliantly. If the changes were only incremental and only slightly improved over the Core Duo, it would barely register with users or the press and forgotten as quickly as its arrival. Thing is, Intel has finally done dual-core properly and benchmark tests conducted by multiple independent sources reaffirm this. Biases and prejudices aside, as a consumer, what is the best CPU right now (not the preceding months or in the pipeline a year from now) in terms of performance and price? The K8L isn't a consideration because its release isn't imminent. If K8L proves to be a superior alternative when it becomes available, the focus of the discussion should shift their way, but not before then.
    Anyone that makes a capitol desion without looking into the future deserves what they get. No A64 owner needs to upgrade to C2D for performance reasons. There are many that need a new computer, and should consider intels offering. But here we are not newbies. Anyone that buys conroe should consider what upgrade costs are (most here will seriously consider upgrading through the life of their computer) ie Consider what will you do for me tomorrow. They should certainly see what the price actually is before making a decision. With the knowledge that AMD will have more competitive cpu's out by the time C2D becomes generally available.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivatePixel
    I think you give AMD far too much credit for Intel's pricing strategy revision where older product lines are concerned. It's as much as AMD having a more competitve product as it does with the introduction of a newer product line (older product lines are discounted because of a) less appealing to consumers, and b) reducing inventory).
    Never has intel done it this way before. There entire previous record is to maintain prices as long as possible (usually till the introduction of the new product. Production then shifts and remaining inventory is sold off. intel has been dropping prices for 6 months, forcing (extending credit and holding "loyalty" payments) channel partners to take inventory they don't want, then dropping the price further so they cannot recoup even if they could sell it. Intel despite these actions is sitting on 4 Billion US (wholesale) in inventory, with production still cranking.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivatePixel
    AMD had to make heavy cuts to their lower- and mid-tier offerings because the prices, relative to their performance, became difficult to justify. If AMD didn't make the cuts they did, they risked losing market share.
    AMD did not significantly drop prices till the "official" conroe release. Prices stayed normal (slight drops as the product aged) despite intels massive price drops. As I have said, they didn't need to drop so much, I'm fairly certain it was done to keep P4&PD without a market (superior AMD product for same costs) intels thinking may be that corporations will jump on their low priced cpu's keeping AMD out of the enterprise market, but I don't know why anyone will want them. One things for sure, any netburst sales will net 0 if sold with a non intel chipset.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivatePixel
    While I'm sure there's some spillover to AMD due to Intel's inability to meet demand for C2D CPUs, I think those who are set on a C2D-based machine may be willing to persevere through the initial shortage.
    For a while, come October there had better be some supply. (of course Kentfield and Merom need to be ramped up as well)



    Source? That number seems far too low for someone of Intel's stature and resources.
    http://biz.yahoo.com/ibd/060727/tech.html?.v=1 Intel Chief Executive Paul Otellini said, "We'll ship 1 million Core 2 Duos in less than seven weeks" (All the production to be shipped this quarter. 7weeks /7 days /500 oems= 40/day/ oem. Obviously some oems will be cut out and will get to try to sell p4's (for 300 dollars) or gasp, sell some AMD's


    "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."
    - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

  4. #214
    Joined
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    Re: Conroe Es @ Xs -Goodbye to my X2 and AM2

    Well the Conroe OC is far from 4ghz.... 2.8 easily on air
    http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...oc.aspx?i=2802
    I dont think anyone has passed 3.4 stable with any of the retail chips... seems like a great deal if you are into OCing and extreme performance.

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  5. #215
    Joined
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    4,168

    Re: Conroe Es @ Xs -Goodbye to my X2 and AM2

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGlasMan
    No A64 owner needs to upgrade to C2D for performance reasons. There are many that need a new computer, and should consider intels offering. But here we are not newbies. Anyone that buys conroe should consider what upgrade costs are (most here will seriously consider upgrading through the life of their computer). They should certainly see what the price actually is before making a decision. With the knowledge that AMD will have more competitive cpu's out by the time C2D becomes generally available.
    I agree that a current A64 owner doesn't need to migrate to C2D. However, those of us who are languishing with their S754-based setups (me, for example) and are considering an overhaul (partial or gradual upgrades aren't particularly beneficial in such an instance), a migration to C2D makes economical sense if your needs aren't immediate. As I see it, when the market for C2D levels out (i.e. Intel's supply is in line with ongoing demand) and with increased offerings from motherboard and memory manufacturers in late Fall, I expect C2D to be a more enticing option than A64 for consumers in general. As of right now, there is nothing to assure me that AMD will have CPUs (by the end of 2006) that can compete directly with the C2D line in their respective price ranges.

    http://biz.yahoo.com/ibd/060727/tech.html?.v=1 Intel Chief Executive Paul Otellini said, "We'll ship 1 million Core 2 Duos in less than seven weeks" (All the production to be shipped this quarter. 7weeks /7 days /500 oems= 40/day/ oem. Obviously some oems will be cut out and will get to try to sell p4's (for 300 dollars) or gasp, sell some AMD's
    Supply may be an issue until late September, but things should pick up quickly before year's end. From the same article:
    And he (Intel Chief Executive Paul Otellini) said the Core 2 Duo production ramp-up will perhaps be the fastest in company history.....Intel says it expects to ship more than 10 million, but less than 100 million, Core 2 Duo chips by year's end.

  6. #216
    Joined
    Aug 2004
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    10,610

    Re: Conroe Es @ Xs -Goodbye to my X2 and AM2

    Sounds good, except C2D include merom notebooks and (what ever the code word is servers. Why do you think Dell is going to AMD for notebooks (meroms to apple) and desktop (not officially confirmed, but NOT denied) cpu's. Dell would not make that move if there were available conroes. They need something between Media Machines for $2000+ and $300 PD's.

    PP, whacha doin that a 3400+ can't handle $99 I don't cry for s754, they are plenny fast. (I've had one for over 2 years now, folds within 6% of my San Diego with half the memory.) ie s754 aint no P4


    "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."
    - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

  7. #217
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    Re: Conroe Es @ Xs -Goodbye to my X2 and AM2

    From ZD Net On top of all this, Dell customers waiting for their Core 2 Duo powered XPS 700 rigs aren't going to see anything until at least October 17th, and there are some reports that they might even have to wait until February 2007 because it seems that Dell are going for the Nvidia Nforce 590 chipset (Update - Dell has some news about the XPS 700 on their blog. Here they are saying that it's a problem with the cooling assembly that's causing the delays, which is a valid reason indeed to hold back on shipping the systems).

    So they are saying cooling, the only thing I see cooling is the relationship between Dell and Intel
    There are advantages to being retarded...and I'm taking advantage of all of them.

  8. #218
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    Re: Conroe Es @ Xs -Goodbye to my X2 and AM2

    it's about time intel got punished for sitting on their butts, not innovating, and deceiving their customers.
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  9. #219
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    Re: Conroe Es @ Xs -Goodbye to my X2 and AM2

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGlasMan
    PP, whacha doin that a 3400+ can't handle $99 I don't cry for s754, they are plenny fast.
    Although a 3400+ would be a nice performance bump over my current configuration, I would rather put those funds toward a dual-core CPU and a motherboard that will support both SATA II and DDR2. Even though a 3400+ would be more than adequate for my PC needs, I'm looking to stay just a bit ahead on the bell curve. I don't need bleeding-edge performance; I just need enough to give myself peace-of-mind for the next couple of years.

  10. #220
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    Re: Conroe Es @ Xs -Goodbye to my X2 and AM2

    that 3400 should do 2.7-2.8gz with the nf3 board u get free would grab one if i didnt already have a 3700+ ch chip in here

  11. #221
    Joined
    Aug 2004
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    Re: Conroe Es @ Xs -Goodbye to my X2 and AM2

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivatePixel
    Although a 3400+ would be a nice performance bump over my current configuration, I would rather put those funds toward a dual-core CPU and a motherboard that will support both SATA II and DDR2. Even though a 3400+ would be more than adequate for my PC needs, I'm looking to stay just a bit ahead on the bell curve. I don't need bleeding-edge performance; I just need enough to give myself peace-of-mind for the next couple of years.


    $99 vs $200 cpu + $200 2gig ram + $200 board +$200 vid card (if you go lower price won't be faster than s754, and plenty of room to go higher on any of the necessary purchases

    Sounds silly to me, but I don't walk in your shoes. Of course if you fold, what'u waiting for!!!


    "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."
    - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

  12. #222
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    Re: Conroe Es @ Xs -Goodbye to my X2 and AM2

    I was stuck with a 754 baord too. They main push for upgrading for me was the move from AGP to PCI-E.

  13. #223
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    Re: Conroe Es @ Xs -Goodbye to my X2 and AM2

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_raider
    I was stuck with a 754 baord too. They main push for upgrading for me was the move from AGP to PCI-E.
    that and ram prices are the main things pushing me to am2, 2gb of GOOD ddr2 is 130-166bucks(2.1/2.2v 4-3-3-9 at ddr800 is kickin for that price)
    that and the fact that a 3500 is cheap now, and in 6mo-year i will beable to grab me a 65nm chip to throw in without reinstalling anything or replacing my mobo.
    oh and the 3500 tend to get 2.8-2.9 on stock air(cheap foxconn alu heatsink) that will hold me for at least a year if need be, i dont feel to slow now, just got the funds commin in, in the next couple weeks and wana get me upgraded whal i can for a reasonable price.

    i got the best agp card u can get now, sure there are 7800 cards in agp but they are ASSSSSSS lower clocked then pci-e ver and dont give any better perf then the card i have now, and caust arm+legg+leftnut+right eye.

    am2 for me, x2 65nm or k8l when they are out and reasonable priced.

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