View Poll Results: Is Jaclyn Helsel:

Voters
6. You may not vote on this poll
  • Crazy?

    2 33.33%
  • A bitch?

    0 0%
  • A crazy-bitch?

    4 66.67%
  • A helpess pawn to the pressures of her fiancee and an uncaring society as a whole?

    0 0%
  • Other? (please post)

    0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19
  1. #1
    Joined
    Apr 2004
    Location
    long island
    Age
    31
    Posts
    2,420

    Woman Ordered by Judge Not to Have Sex

    http://www.cfnews13.com/story.aspx?id=50&sid=13536
    http://www.wesh.com/news/8392209/detail.html
    http://www.wftv.com/news/7394638/detail.html

    Helsel was originally ordered held without bail, but she was released on Friday morning after a judge agreed to a $35,000 bail.
    Wow, just wow. What amazes me most is that the woman will be out of jail before the trial completely begins. There's not really even a way to enforce this. She wanted an abortion but her boyfriend wanted to keep the baby because it was a boy. Supposedly he was involved with killing it too. Something here doesnt add up right


    My Games Updated 9/12/05

  2. #2
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Corruptfornia
    Posts
    3,785

    Re: Woman Ordered by Judge Not to Have Sex

    Man that is just sooo foul. 35,000 bail what a joke. She should
    be getting some serious time and NO BAIL. She needs to
    work at the morgue, but I don't suppose that have any affect
    on her as she appears heartless..As for the boyfriend, hard
    labor should be the verdict. I think trying to fill that huge
    hole out in Death Valley during the summer with a small
    shovel for 25 yrs with NO parole will work.

  3. #3
    Joined
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    74,682

    Re: Woman Ordered by Judge Not to Have Sex

    After considering all the facts...and after considerable thought? I think Ive found a good solution for the couple. A brief ride on the mare of steel.

    http://www.net-monster.com/longships_2a.jpg

  4. #4
    Joined
    Dec 2001
    Age
    71
    Posts
    64,553

    Re: Woman Ordered by Judge Not to Have Sex

    MuHaHaHa!!

  5. #5
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Corruptfornia
    Posts
    3,785

    Re: Woman Ordered by Judge Not to Have Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal
    After considering all the facts...and after considerable thought? I think Ive found a good solution for the couple. A brief ride on the mare of steel.

    http://www.net-monster.com/longships_2a.jpg
    I don't see so well anymore..What is that
    thing ?

  6. #6
    Joined
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Where else? The Airport!
    Age
    50
    Posts
    5,399

    Re: Woman Ordered by Judge Not to Have Sex

    That's pathetic when I think of all the couples that can't concieve at all....

  7. #7
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    8,887

    Re: Woman Ordered by Judge Not to Have Sex

    This is the kind of thing that happens when you limit abortion. Naturally the man suffers no penalty for his actions.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  8. #8
    Joined
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Plainfield, IL
    Posts
    5,177

    Re: Woman Ordered by Judge Not to Have Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    This is the kind of thing that happens when you limit abortion. Naturally the man suffers no penalty for his actions.
    How are either of these statements relevent to this case?
    Last edited by mostholycerebus; 04-03-2006 at 03:46 PM.

  9. #9
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Tacoma Wa
    Age
    43
    Posts
    2,279

    Re: Woman Ordered by Judge Not to Have Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by no2guncntrl
    I don't see so well anymore..What is that
    thing ?
    A big blade masqurading as a slide
    Apple MackBook Pro Intel vers duel booted with Vista

    Windows desktop system in work.

  10. #10
    Joined
    May 2005
    Posts
    221

    Re: Woman Ordered by Judge Not to Have Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    This is the kind of thing that happens when you limit abortion. Naturally the man suffers no penalty for his actions.
    1) They could have got one. The man refused to let the woman do it.

    2) After she birthed the child, she could have gave it up for adoption. The hard part was already over. No need to kill the child.

    3) Most cases of abortion are a form of contraceptive.

    So basically, it sounds like your stance is that she should have been able to kill this baby earlier. By your logic would that make her less at fault for what she did? I mean, I'm fairly liberal on the subject (I approve of it if the mother's health is in danger, some cases of rape, incest, and even children) but I have a feeling this is a little deeper than to be caused by any sort of restriction Florida has on abortion. As contraceptive abortion is legal in Florida.
    1 > 2800+ Barton | 2x512MB Corsair VS | MSi KT880 Delta | Gigabyte X800XL | 120GB Samsung Spinpoint SATA HDD | NEC 3520A Dual Layer Burner

  11. #11
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    8,887

    Re: Woman Ordered by Judge Not to Have Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by IIgenTA
    1) They could have got one. The man refused to let the woman do it.
    Right. That's limiting access to abortion.

    2) After she birthed the child, she could have gave it up for adoption. The hard part was already over. No need to kill the child.
    Quite true, but obviously she wasn't exactly mentally sound.

    3) Most cases of abortion are a form of contraceptive.
    What?

    So basically, it sounds like your stance is that she should have been able to kill this baby earlier. By your logic would that make her less at fault for what she did?
    The whole situation could have been avoided had she simply terminated the pregnancy during the first trimester.

    I mean, I'm fairly liberal on the subject (I approve of it if the mother's health is in danger, some cases of rape, incest, and even children)
    That's not liberal.

    but I have a feeling this is a little deeper than to be caused by any sort of restriction Florida has on abortion.
    I mentioned nothing of Florida's laws.

    As contraceptive abortion is legal in Florida.
    What, pray tell, is "contraceptive abortion"?

    Quote Originally Posted by mostholycerebus

    How are either of these statements relevent to this case?
    Quite relevant. The male individual prevented the female from aborting the pregnancy. That's not his choice, period. He should be penalized for the consequences of his actions. Free, unadulterated access to abortion without fear of reprisal is what is needed. As long as there are asshats who want to limit and coerce pregnant women out of abortions, things like this will happen. The mother wanted an abortion. That should tell you something about her ability and willingness to carry and care for the child. Should she have practiced better birth control? Probably, but what's done is done and she should have been allowed to handle it as she wanted.

    I'm in a pissy mood about this because there were Christian asshats parading around campus today bearing images on placards and their truck concerning abortion, calling it an "abortion Holocaust". Holocaust? Why don't you go ask some of the Jews if it's the same as the Holocaust? Oh, Jews are going to Hell anyway so they don't matter. You know people are on firm argumentative ground when all they can do is curse you and make emotional appeals.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  12. #12
    Joined
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Plainfield, IL
    Posts
    5,177

    Re: Woman Ordered by Judge Not to Have Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    Quite relevant. The male individual prevented the female from aborting the pregnancy.
    WTF is this, the 1920's? What did he do, tie her down in the basement? . Maybe in your twisted world having a conversation and making a mutual decision with your mate is 'preventing' her from abortion, but in the civilized world we believe in discussion and decision that weighs the feelings of both participants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    That's not his choice, period.
    This is a point on which we'll never agree. I, and several others on this board, feel that the father of the child is as equally deserving of the responsibility of the child.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    He should be penalized for the consequences of his actions.
    But the mother should be free of all consequences? What actions ahould he be "penalized" for? Asking his mate to bear his child, instead of aborting it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    The mother wanted an abortion. That should tell you something about her ability and willingness to carry and care for the child.
    The father wanted the child, regardless of the difficulties of an unexpected pregnancy. That should tell you something about his ability and willingness to support and raise the child.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    I'm in a pissy mood about this because there were Christian asshats parading around campus today bearing images on placards and their truck concerning abortion, calling it an "abortion Holocaust". Holocaust? Why don't you go ask some of the Jews if it's the same as the Holocaust? Oh, Jews are going to Hell anyway so they don't matter. You know people are on firm argumentative ground when all they can do is curse you and make emotional appeals.
    I could care less about your pissy mood. This article describes a case of a crazy bitch who let her kid die, and you are trying to twist it into some high-horse moralizing about abortion. Abortion had absolutely -all to do with it. Crazy-bitch had everything to do with it.

  13. #13
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    8,887

    Re: Woman Ordered by Judge Not to Have Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by mostholycerebus

    WTF is this, the 1920's? What did he do, tie her down in the basement? . Maybe in your twisted world having a conversation and making a mutual decision with your mate is 'preventing' her from abortion, but in the civilized world we believe in discussion and decision that weighs the feelings of both participants.
    Actually, the 1920s were more "free" for women (and to a lesser extent men) in some respects than now. I think you're wildly out of touch with reality if you think women are not coerced by society, their families, and men out of aborting. I believe in equality in all things, but abortion is squarely the female's and only the female's decision. Until males can carry children, it should remain that way.


    This is a point on which we'll never agree. I, and several others on this board, feel that the father of the child is as equally deserving of the responsibility of the child.
    Fine, then you can go get pregnant. Oh, wait, you can't because nature doesn't work like that. Your "say" means absolutely because of that.

    But the mother should be free of all consequences? What actions ahould he be "penalized" for? Asking his mate to bear his child, instead of aborting it?
    Oh, nice logical fallacy. I said nothing of the mother's consequences, but thanks for assuming/implying/generalising. Smooth move.

    The father wanted the child, regardless of the difficulties of an unexpected pregnancy. That should tell you something about his ability and willingness to support and raise the child.
    That's nice. He can go adopt one or sire another. Hell, sire ten, twenty, a thousand, a million children if he wants to be a father. The only thing limiting his progeny is the number of mates he can find.

    I could care less about your pissy mood. This article describes a case of a crazy bitch who let her kid die, and you are trying to twist it into some high-horse moralizing about abortion. Abortion had absolutely -all to do with it. Crazy-bitch had everything to do with it.
    Ah, there we go, we come to it plainly now. The woman is a "crazy bitch" and the father is someone of sound morals and upstanding character. Thanks for falling into such an old trap. It's no wonder you think men should "have a say" in the decision to abort.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  14. #14
    Joined
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Plainfield, IL
    Posts
    5,177

    Re: Woman Ordered by Judge Not to Have Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    The woman is a "crazy bitch" and the father is someone of sound morals and upstanding character.
    Based on the part where she gave birth alone in her own home and left the kid to die...yeah i'm gonna say I 'fell into the trap' of calling her a crazy bitch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    Oh, nice logical fallacy. I said nothing of the mother's consequences, but thanks for assuming/implying/generalising. Smooth move.
    You just gonna ignore/deflect the questions I asked, or respond to them eventually?
    Last edited by mostholycerebus; 04-04-2006 at 04:26 AM.

  15. #15
    Joined
    May 2005
    Posts
    221

    Re: Woman Ordered by Judge Not to Have Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    Right. That's limiting access to abortion.
    Right. Limited by the husband. Sounds like if abortion were not limited by the state (which in this case, it would have been legal), events like this would still happen. Now, we all know the difference between Pro-Life and Pro-Choice. Pro-Life means to believe that shortly after the conception, the child has a life separate from the mother (Interesting, as genetically, it's a complete human being with it's own blood type and sex. And what happens to a human running two blood types?), and Pro-Choice takes the stance that the fetus is an extension of the mother (As brain waves are detectable only at 6 weeks, which is interesting as the better technology gets, the earlier we find brain waves). A tumor, if you will. Funny, as most states are perfectly fine with aborting the child, but if a pregnant woman is murdered, the killer is charged on two counts of murder (Scott Peterson). I am not assuming what you believe, as quite frankly, I do not know. Obviously though, I believe that the child was a life separate from the mother at a way earlier stage than somebody who is Pro-Choice. Obviously, I would not have condoned her killing the child even as it was in the womb. Though, I am tolerant of the Pro-Choice point of view.

    Feel free to enlighten me on your view on abortion. I don't want to just assign you the typical Pro Choice views.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    Quite true, but obviously she wasn't exactly mentally sound.
    A case of the "baby blues" is no excuse. Like I said, the hard part was already over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    The whole situation could have been avoided had she simply terminated the pregnancy during the first trimester.
    Legally yes. Having an abortion done can cause severe depression for the woman. Maybe the whole situation could have been avoided if the couple were a little more responsible? If they didn't want the child, maybe they should have used birth control AND a rubber. I believe that would have been for the best. And please, let's not fool ourselves. They're a married couple, I doubt a condom was used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    That's not liberal.
    I believe I said "fairly liberal" and "on the subject". Most Pro-Lifers I have met don't agree with abortion in as many cases as I do. Actually, they only really condone abortion if the mother's life (Not health) is in danger. I believe it's okay in some cases of incest, rape, disease, and the young.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    I mentioned nothing of Florida's laws.
    Rightly so. I don't remember implying that you did. I brought up that it was completely legal and the attention needs to be turned towards the couple. It was pre-emptive on my part.


    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    What, pray tell, is "contraceptive abortion"?
    Using abortion as the "day after" pill. 90% of abortion is a result of careless casual sex. Contraceptive abortion is preventable abortion.



    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    Quite relevant. The male individual prevented the female from aborting the pregnancy. That's not his choice, period. He should be penalized for the consequences of his actions. Free, unadulterated access to abortion without fear of reprisal is what is needed. As long as there are asshats who want to limit and coerce pregnant women out of abortions, things like this will happen. The mother wanted an abortion. That should tell you something about her ability and willingness to carry and care for the child. Should she have practiced better birth control? Probably, but what's done is done and she should have been allowed to handle it as she wanted.
    I agree on the use of birth control, as stated above. However, I believe she was perfectly capable of disobeying her husband. I believe the mother and father are equal in guilt. Though in my opinion, they are guilty for creating a child that they did not want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    I'm in a pissy mood about this because there were Christian asshats parading around campus today bearing images on placards and their truck concerning abortion, calling it an "abortion Holocaust". Holocaust? Why don't you go ask some of the Jews if it's the same as the Holocaust? Oh, Jews are going to Hell anyway so they don't matter. You know people are on firm argumentative ground when all they can do is curse you and make emotional appeals.
    I can see why you would be pissy, the holocaust thing is a little cliched. Those Christians you speak of are a little better than the people who bomb clinics, right? Look at the sunny side.

    *As a disclaimer, I try to stay moderate, hopefully you remember I argued along side of you regarding the Danish Cartoons. I pick and choose where I am liberal and where I am conservative.
    1 > 2800+ Barton | 2x512MB Corsair VS | MSi KT880 Delta | Gigabyte X800XL | 120GB Samsung Spinpoint SATA HDD | NEC 3520A Dual Layer Burner

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •