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  1. #1
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    "GO Zones" in MS and LS (Katrina related)

    Gulf Opportunity Zones...

    Apparently the Federal Gov (a Bush idea) has provided tax incentives and depreciation allowances for companies to rebuild in the Katrina ravaged zones of MS and LA. Just as a point of reference, this "GO Zone" extends as far North as Columbus, MS.

    Heh. I was all excited about it until I heard this: In Meridian, just south of Columbus, construction companies are using the tax incentives etc to build low income housing [in the middle of the wealthiest neighborhoods].

    Instead of using the incentives to rebuild businesses /venture capital entities, they are instead using it where they know they'll get paid - low income housing...to be funded by HUD. (By you and me.)

    WHAT a country!!!

    LOL somebody else sees it as a farce as well: http://www.americanprogress.org/site...8OVF&b=1170683
    -TMack

    "Forgive everyone for everything"

  2. #2
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    Re: "GO Zones" in MS and LS (Katrina related)

    I am good friends with man who won a major multi million dollar bid for the "Katrina Relief" contracting and he says it is a joke. He also says that New Orleans is about 1000 times worse in real life than what the news portrays on TV's. He will be contracted to rebuild a building and when they decide that the internal structure is in such bad shape that it prevents them from rebuilding they STILL will receive the money to rebuild regardless. He says in some parts there are STILL bodies. He can't wait to get his company out of there......

  3. #3
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    Re: "GO Zones" in MS and LS (Katrina related)

    So, just how is John (or Joan) Q. Public supposed to find out what the Katrina-related death toll has risen to? I presume the numbers previously reported were based upon actual body count. So, where's the latest figures, or has a decision been made to stop reporting on those figures (and the progress of recovery) to "save the nation from further heartbreak" (and the administration from further embarassment)?
    What the genteel demand is something of themselves. What the vulgar demand is something of others.
    The true church is one's own heart.
    It has been my experience that those who proclaim the world is going to hell in a handbasket are the same ones who are leading the way there with their grip fixed firmly on the handle.
    Why can't you find god? Everyone knows he lives in a little black box.
    A carp who deals in red herrings is a traitor to his species.


  4. #4
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    Re: "GO Zones" in MS and LS (Katrina related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert3
    to "save the nation from further heartbreak" (and the administration from further embarassment)?
    Still not sure how the federal administration is supposed to babysit every local government. Face it, the local and state governments dropped the ball. If the federal government had to get involved with every state and local problem, then why do we even have state and local governments. If the mayor and governor cannot do their jobs, then they should rescind their responsibilities to the President. On a final note, if the administration is supposed to take "credit" for the Katrina disaster, then it should also be able to take credit for any state and/or local event that you support. If any failure in any part of the country is the responsibility and fault of the current national administration, then so too is any success.

  5. #5
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    Re: "GO Zones" in MS and LS (Katrina related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert3
    So, just how is John (or Joan) Q. Public supposed to find out what the Katrina-related death toll has risen to? I presume the numbers previously reported were based upon actual body count. So, where's the latest figures, or has a decision been made to stop reporting on those figures (and the progress of recovery) to "save the nation from further heartbreak" (and the administration from further embarassment)?
    J.Q. Public will not likely ever find out.........I just got back from another tour of the area and only the locals that are really connected to the community know what's going on. They are finding bodies almost weekly. But you wont read it in the papers outside New Orleans - the world has moved on. Sadly, New Orleans (certain parts at least) has not moved foward as I am about to report......

    They took me up to the door of one of the homes ravaged by the flood for a look /see. I now understand the problem of finding bodies.....when you step up to the door and look inside, expecting the couch and refrigerator, beds, etc etc to be in their proper places - you quickly see for yourself that they are all piled on top of each other. In one room sometimes. The frig that you and I break our backs to move - simply floated round inside the house and came to a final resting spot on top of the sofa, on top of the bedding.........on top of the bodies - once the water receded. This scenario repeats hundreds of thousands of times. Putting it mildly, it's a mangled mess inside those homes. (It's starting to warm up now so the odors are really kicking up again. Bodies will be easier to find now because of it.)

    We aren't talking about hundreds and hundreds of homes.....we are talking thousands upon thousands of homes ravaged. I did not take one single picture as a photograph can't capture the magnitude of it. After about 3 hours of driving thru the area your mind just shuts down. You simply can't imagine the scope and the horror of it all. And worse still, the politicians are all fighting over what will and will not be rebuilt....so right now everything is at a standstill esp with regards to the Lower Ninth Ward and Holy Cross. (That area where Florida Ave, N. Claiborne Ave and St Claude Ave run through). And Chalmette. And the entire St. Barnard Parish.....except for ONE Vietnamese fishing community that has taken matters into their own hands and rebuilt their own community. About 90 % complete. They have the ONLY power grid that Entergy has turned back on in St. Banard Parish (they wont turn on power for just one or two homes!). The Vietnamese have water and sewage up and running. Their schools are operating. Amazing!

    Conversely, those waiting for government to fix their problems are still waiting. And, it's been 8 months now......

    And you still think government is the answer? Or is somehow responsible???
    Sheesh.
    -TMack

    "Forgive everyone for everything"

  6. #6
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    Re: "GO Zones" in MS and LS (Katrina related)

    Awesome post, TMack.

  7. #7
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    Re: "GO Zones" in MS and LS (Katrina related)

    ^^I agree good post.

    I read a few things in the thread and I was once again reminded of the deal the History Channel did on the San Francisco Fire and Earthquake[that aired again last nite].
    The death toll....and the lack of available information. I believe it will come to be handled about like it was following the San Francisco disaster: It will be sort of a hushed item. Not intended to be a cover up particularly...more like a spin for the sake of potential investors in the area.
    Also, like San Francisco, the emphasis will drift away from the actual cause [an act of nature] to a more investor friendly term like "levee failure/flood" much like the earthquake in SF became a "fire" issue.
    I was reminded via the documentary that we are still young enough [and perhaps stupid enough] to rebuild on problem areas, whereas more mature countries have found it better policy to avoid plate faults and hurricane zones below sea level.
    The San Francosco deal is worth seeing/recording if for no other reason than a pretty good comparison of the two events we may not have noticed.

  8. #8
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    Re: "GO Zones" in MS and LS (Katrina related)

    I'm responding to each sentence as each sentence is a fool's errand in and of itself. Some people can be persuaded by volume and fail to see the individual fallacies.
    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalNuke
    Still not sure how the federal administration is supposed to babysit every local government.
    Perhaps such a statement is a favorable indication. I am not aware of the babysitting responsibilities of the federal administration either. However, the topic is not babysitting but, rather, the performance on a task accepted by the federal administration. Attempting to gloss over the maintenance of the New Orleans levee system as babysitting is a grossly irresponsible minimization and insulting to people of conscience.
    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalNuke
    Face it, the local and state governments dropped the ball.
    The ball...there was only one so they had to take turns dropping it? Again, another irresponsible minimization is offered and rightly rejected. While there are several efforts which could have been undertaken at both or either the city or state levels, none of them have been proven to compare to the level of incompetency and callous disregard demonstrated over the years at the federal level. Had the levees held as they were supposed to, the inadequacies at the state and local levels would very likely have never come to light and would have been irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalNuke
    If the federal government had to get involved with every state and local problem, then why do we even have state and local governments.
    This is another misdirection known as a red herring. The point that the levee system in New Orleans is not merely a state or local problem, but a national problem, is glossed over. The question as to the existence of state and local governments is irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalNuke
    If the mayor and governor cannot do their jobs, then they should rescind their responsibilities to the President.
    An opinion, from one who we understand is not a member of the constituency of Louisiana (let alone New Orleans), which advocates a course of action of questionable logic, legality, and desirability from the standpoint of those who are members of the constituency of Louisiana and New Orlearns.
    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalNuke
    On a final note, if the administration is supposed to take "credit" for the Katrina disaster, then it should also be able to take credit for any state and/or local event that you support.
    Irrelevant..
    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalNuke
    If any failure in any part of the country is the responsibility and fault of the current national administration, then so too is any success.
    ditto...and incorrect...whether or not any success is the responsibility and fault of the current national administration is irrelevant to the specific failures to fulfill the responsibilities to maintain the levee system in New Orleans resulting in the loss of life and devastation.

    Quote Originally Posted by TMack409
    And you still think government is the answer? Or is somehow responsible???
    Sheesh.
    I cannot say that government is the answer. The federal government was supposed to be the answer. Congress has, on numerous occasions, appropriated money for, and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers was tasked with, the building and maintaining of the levee system around New Orleans. That alone should indicate that they were supposed to be responsible. Obviously, they did not act responsibly in carrying out their accepted or assigned responsibilities. And, I am not favorably impressed with the lack of commitment to truth for those who would shift blame or accept the facts being covered up.
    Last edited by Robert3; 05-14-2006 at 12:16 AM.
    What the genteel demand is something of themselves. What the vulgar demand is something of others.
    The true church is one's own heart.
    It has been my experience that those who proclaim the world is going to hell in a handbasket are the same ones who are leading the way there with their grip fixed firmly on the handle.
    Why can't you find god? Everyone knows he lives in a little black box.
    A carp who deals in red herrings is a traitor to his species.


  9. #9
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    Re: "GO Zones" in MS and LS (Katrina related)

    R3:

    Your idealic response(s) ...... [with appropriate, de facto excuse - "they just haven't found the right people to place in positions of authority"] is the reason why Marxism does not work.

    I have clearly demonstrated [by fact] that rugged individualism and self-reliance are the way out of this mess. Further pontification from you does not solve the problem.

    The company I work for and a French Bank (neither are gov owned or operated) have adopted the private school where these Vietnamese send their children. We aren't waiting around for Gov handouts or assistance. We're just getting the job done.

    I'm done with talking.

    -TM

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert3
    I'm responding to each sentence as each sentence is a fool's errand in and of itself. Some people can be persuaded by volume and fail to see the individual fallacies.
    Perhaps such a statement is a favorable indication. I am not aware of the babysitting responsibilities of the federal administration either. However, the topic is not babysitting but, rather, the performance on a task accepted by the federal administration. Attempting to gloss over the maintenance of the New Orleans levee system as babysitting is a grossly irresponsible minimization and insulting to people of conscience.
    The ball...there was only one so they had to take turns dropping it? Again, another irresponsible minimization is offered and rightly rejected. While there are several efforts which could have been undertaken at both or either the city or state levels, none of them have been proven to compare to the level of incompetency and callous disregard demonstrated over the years at the federal level. Had the levees held as they were supposed to, the inadequacies at the state and local levels would very likely have never come to light and would have been irrelevant.
    This is another misdirection known as a red herring. The point that the levee system in New Orleans is not merely a state or local problem, but a national problem, is glossed over. The question as to the existence of state and local governments is irrelevant.
    An opinion, from one who we understand is not a member of the constituency of Louisiana (let alone New Orleans), which advocates a course of action of questionable logic, legality, and desirability from the standpoint of those who are members of the constituency of Louisiana and New Orlearns.
    Irrelevant..
    ditto...and incorrect...whether or not any success is the responsibility and fault of the current national administration is irrelevant to the specific failures to fulfill the responsibilities to maintain the levee system in New Orleans resulting in the loss of life and devastation.

    I cannot say that government is the answer. The federal government was supposed to be the answer. Congress has, on numerous occasions, appropriated money for, and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers was tasked with, the building and maintaining the levee around New Orleans. That alone should indicate that they were supposed to be responsible. Obviously, they did not act responsibly in carrying out their accepted or assigned responsibilities. And, I am not favorably impressed with the lack commitment to truth for those who would shift blame or accept the facts being covered up.
    Last edited by TMack409; 05-13-2006 at 01:30 PM.
    -TMack

    "Forgive everyone for everything"

  10. #10
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    Re: "GO Zones" in MS and LS (Katrina related)

    Quote Originally Posted by TMack409
    R3:

    Your idealic response(s) ...... [with appropriate, de facto excuse - "they just haven't found the right people to place in positions of authority"] is why Marxism does not work.
    Yes, perhaps it is idealistic to hold the federal government accountable for the promises made and broken, ineptitudes, misdirections, lassitudes, and cover-ups. But, handling projects in a particular area that are beyond the resources of the local or state populace and are of national significance is the responsibility of the federal government. So, yes, they are to be held accountable. Attempting misdirection by addressing the effort to achieve that accountability as idealism is tantamount to excusing those who should be held accountable. Or, perhaps you meant to use the word idyllic...?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMack409
    I have clearly demonstrated [by fact] that rugged individualism and self-reliance are the way out of this mess. Further pontification from you does not solve the problem.
    There is not just one problem, although you may be focused on only one or choose to direct attention to only one. In point of fact, there are aspects to the recovery from Katrina in which it appears we are in agreement. But, while monies appear to be mis-managed, the fact of the matter remains that there is a drastic need for housing in New Orleans and no one program, government or non-government, appears to be capable of handling all that remains to be done. I'm therefore hesitant to blindly decry government efforts to see New Orleans recover it's vitality, especially since it's port operations have such a significant impact on the country as a whole. People invested their lives in New Orleans based, in no small part, upon a promise that was not kept. And, it appears your cry for rugged individualism has a framework bounded by myopia when it comes to the recovery from that unkept promise.

    Quote Originally Posted by TMack409
    The company I work for and a French Bank (neither are gov owned or operated) have adopted the private school where these Vietnamese send their children. We aren't waiting around for Gov handouts or assistance. We're just getting the job done.

    I'm done with talking.

    -TM
    I'll wish you luck in your endeavors. It would appear that the Vietnamese community remained more intact than other communities in that area, thus making the recovery a little easier with respect to those other communities. It would appear from the tone of your writing that you've appreciated justifications for patting yourself on the back. I will hope you know that pats on the back are significant only when given by others and that patting one's self on the back at the expense of others is self-delusion. But, I guess that's one of those problems that can arise when the rugged individualist demonstrates too much reliance on self-reliance...
    Last edited by Robert3; 05-13-2006 at 06:39 PM.
    What the genteel demand is something of themselves. What the vulgar demand is something of others.
    The true church is one's own heart.
    It has been my experience that those who proclaim the world is going to hell in a handbasket are the same ones who are leading the way there with their grip fixed firmly on the handle.
    Why can't you find god? Everyone knows he lives in a little black box.
    A carp who deals in red herrings is a traitor to his species.


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