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  1. #46
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Um, no blood for oil! Impeach Bush! Stop clubbing baby seals!

    Oh, wait, wrong war...
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  2. #47
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Nate
    I like this quote better from that article JimZ

    The Saudi official said Hizbullah's actions could lead to "an extremely serious situation which could subject all Arab nations and its achievements to destruction."

    At least one of them gets it. "It" being that Isreal alone can wipe them all off the map any time they want. Time to stop poking the lion, the cage door is opening.
    As if the middle east hasn't been under "destruction" for the last couple thousand years.

  3. #48
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Whoah. Alot happened today while I was at work.
    Looks like its an open war between Israel and the Lebanese characters.
    Rockets whacked an Israeli ship?

  4. #49
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Sanity in a sea of rhetoric.. good read IMHO.

    To my Arab brothers: The War with Israel Is Over ó and they won. Now let's finally move forward

    With Israel entering its fourth week of an incursion into the same Gaza Strip it voluntarily evacuated a few months ago, a sense of reality among Arabs is spreading through commentary by Arab pundits, letters to the editor, and political talk shows on Arabic-language TV networks. The new views are stunning both in their maturity and in their realism. The best way I can think of to convey them is in the form of a letter to the Palestinian Arabs from their Arab friends:


    Dear Palestinian Arab brethren:


    The war with Israel is over.


    You have lost. Surrender and negotiate to secure a future for your children.


    We, your Arab brothers, may say until we are blue in the face that we stand by you, but the wise among you and most of us know that we are moving on, away from the tired old idea of the Palestinian Arab cause and the "eternal struggle" with Israel.


    Dear friends, you and your leaders have wasted three generations trying to fight for Palestine, but the truth is the Palestine you could have had in 1948 is much bigger than the one you could have had in 1967, which in turn is much bigger than what you may have to settle for now or in another 10 years. Struggle means less land and more misery and utter loneliness.


    At the moment, brothers, you would be lucky to secure a semblance of a state in that Gaza Strip into which you have all crowded, and a small part of the West Bank of the Jordan. It isn't going to get better. Time is running out even for this much land, so here are some facts, figures, and sound advice, friends.


    You hold keys, which you drag out for television interviews, to houses that do not exist or are inhabited by Israelis who have no intention of leaving Jaffa, Haifa, Tel Aviv, or West Jerusalem. You shoot old guns at modern Israeli tanks and American-made fighter jets, doing virtually no harm to Israel while bringing the wrath of its mighty army down upon you. You fire ridiculously inept Kassam rockets that cause little destruction and delude yourselves into thinking this is a war of liberation. Your government, your social institutions, your schools, and your economy are all in ruins.


    Your young people are growing up illiterate, ill, and bent on rites of death and suicide, while you, in effect, are living on the kindness of foreigners, including America and the United Nations. Every day your officials must beg for your daily bread, dependent on relief trucks that carry food and medicine into the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, while your criminal Muslim fundamentalist Hamas government continues to fan the flames of a war it can neither fight nor hope to win.


    In other words, brothers, you are down, out, and alone in a burnt-out landscape that is shrinking by the day.


    What kind of struggle is this? Is it worth waging at all? More important, what kind of miserable future does it portend for your children, the fourth or fifth generation of the Arab world's have-nots?


    We, your Arab brothers, have moved on.


    Those of us who have oil money are busy accumulating wealth and building housing, luxury developments, state-of-the-art universities and schools, and new highways and byways. Those of us who share borders with Israel, such as Egypt and Jordan, have signed a peace treaty with it and are not going to war for you any time soon. Those of us who are far away, in places like North Africa and Iraq, frankly could not care less about what happens to you.


    Only Syria continues to feed your fantasies that someday it will join you in liberating Palestine, even though a huge chunk of its territory, the entire Golan Heights, was taken by Israel in 1967 and annexed. The Syrians, my friends, will gladly fight down to the last Palestinian Arab.


    Before you got stuck with this Hamas crowd, another cheating, conniving, leader of yours, Yasser Arafat, sold you a rotten bill of goods ó more pain, greater corruption, and millions stolen by his relatives ó while your children played in the sewers of Gaza.


    The war is over. Why not let a new future begin?
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


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  5. #50
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    ^^Dont know how seriously that will be taken. Whats this I read about Palestinians streaming into Gaza from Eqypt?

    And from Lebanon 300 rockets?
    Sheesh.
    Orang was right three weeks ago. Its here.

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...275609,00.html

  6. #51
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    From powerline [I post this only because its sort of a summary..not about politics here]..and he has some fair links if you want to follow up

    It's war

    When he wrote to us last night, Joel Mowbray headed his brief report from Israel "It's war." Today Jerusalem Post editor David Horovitz provides his own analysis to the same effect: "Israel at war." Horovitz writes:

    There are those who have branded this latest conflict a continuation of Israel's War of Independence, and there is no little truth in the assertion. On both of the fronts on which Israel has been drawn into heavy fighting, its enemies can make no legitimate claim to be pursuing a territorial dispute: as of last summer, Israel relinquished its hold on the Gaza Strip; in Lebanon, it pulled back to the UN-certified international border six years ago.

    Except that, in both cases, the Jewish state's assailants are indeed pursuing a territorial ambition - to unseat Israel from its own sovereign lands.

    Israel has watched Hizbullah build up its offensive capability in the years since the security zone was dismantled - watched it, ever bolder, establishing its positions up against the border fence and saw it developing its missile capability - and chose not to act. That stance was misinterpreted as weakness.

    Wednesday morning's cross-border attack, complete with the barrage of shelling and rocket fire that served as cover, highlighted the IDF's intolerable absence of room for maneuver in such circumstances. And an Israeli government with a defense minister who had genuinely hoped to oversee a return to the peace path was obligated to militarily "change the rules of the game."

    Hizbullah is a wily and well-prepared enemy, all-too-demonstrably capable of wreaking a degree of havoc in northern Israel and beyond, and the goal of dismantling its offensive capacity will not be easily achieved. Thursday's air onslaught certainly impacted Lebanon's civilian infrastructure; it is less clear how deeply Hizbullah was harmed.

    Still, in contrast to the asymmetrical struggles against terror cells and Kassam rocket crews, the IDF has now been unleashed in a context where it can expect to use more of its strengths. And woe betide a nation under attack inside its sovereign borders if it does not decisively prevail.

    Charles Krauthammer also explores the existential nature of the assaults to which Israel is responding. The gist of Krauthammer's column is that the "occupation" to which the Arab/Muslim opponents of Israel object is the Israeli occupation of Israel. In the Washington Times, Wesley Pruden's bracing column weaves in the comments of Israeli Ambassador Danny Ayalon at the National Press Club yesterday:

    Daniel Ayalon, the Israeli ambassador to Washington, offered a warning to Iran in blunt, forceful language yesterday at a session with reporters at the National Press Club: "They are playing with fire, and will bear the consequences." This is not the usual diplo-speak, but a warning in language that thugs and primitives better understand.

    Mr. Ayalon, choosing his words carefully, calls the present crisis "a historic, dangerous juncture." The threat, as is clear to anyone brave enough to look the ugly reality square in the face, is the radical Islamification of the Middle East, forced by an Iranian regime that is backward, totalitarian and dictatorial. "All this," the ambassador says, "and nuclear weapons, too."

    Most of the rest of the world is, as usual, either trying to make Israel the villain, or trying to sleep. The United Nations Security Council, ever on the scout for ways to equivocate in the face of moral challenge, would have adopted a resolution condemning Israel yesterday but for a veto by the United States. Four other nations, displaying the irresolution that is the courage of cowards, abstained. Israel's neighbors, who have the most to lose if the radicalized "religion of peace" prevails in the Middle East, displayed their usual manliness. Greece called the Israeli response to the kidnapping of its soldiers on Israeli soil, and the continued rocket attacks on Israeli cities, "excessive." (The bad guys are only terrorists, after all, not Turks.)

    President Bush, in Germany to pay court to Angela Merkel, quickly said the right thing. Israel has the right to defend itself, and the blame for the escalation of violence is rightly on Hezbollah, the terrorists who crossed the border earlier this week to seize the two soldiers. Even Mrs. Merkel, whose government often employs timidity in the face of challenge, agreed that Israel and its tormentors do not share equal blame. "I think that one needs to be careful to make a distinction between the root causes and the consequences of something." (One certainly do, as the Hon. Fats Domino might say.)

    Mr. Bush is concerned, however, that in its determination to protect itself Israel should not destroy the new government in Lebanon, which is distinctly wary of Syria, which has treated Lebanon as its doxy of convenience for a generation. The Israelis shelled Beirut's international airport whence the rockets arrive from Syria, where they are manufactured.

    Syria, as well as Iran, is playing the deadly game. Much of the Hamas administration of the Palestinian government, such as it is, has run to hide in Damascus. Khaled Mashaal, the leader of Hamas, preaches now from a Damascus pulpit. Sample: "Tomorrow our nation will sit on the throne of the world. This is not a figment of the imagination, but a fact. Tomorrow we will lead the world, Allah willing. Apologize today, before remorse will do you no good." Pretty big talk for a fat man on the run, but the Israelis understand that even a fat man on the run is dangerous with his finger on a trigger. It's the lesson the rest of the world has not yet learned.

    RealClearPolitics has also posted an excellent column by Robert Tracinski elaborating the Iranian roots of the war and its object:

    Iran has revealed its hand, challenging the US and its allies and openly demonstrating its desire to dominate the Middle East through force and terror. While we have been trying to delay the war with Iran, it has brought the war to us, in a manner so obvious that even the mainstream media cannot evade it.

    In doing so, they have made their threat to America and its interests more obvious and more urgent--providing a stronger case for war than their nuclear program could provide. There can be no question here about whether Iran really has aggressive designs in the Middle East, whether it really seeks the weapons to attack the US and its allies, and how long it might take for such a threat to materialize. The threat is here and Iran's newest war on the West has already begun.

    Iran is risking everything on this new strategy, and the only hope they have of success is the expectation that, as they bring the war closer and closer to America, we won't fight back.

    But that means that we have an easy way to blow their strategy to smithereens.

    All we have to do is to start fighting back.

    In the Washington Post, historian Michael Oren argues that Israel must target not only the terrorist leaders that threaten it, but also their national sponsors: "Israel has no realistic option but to convince [Syria and Iran] that the price of promoting aggression is prohibitive. If Israeli soldiers and civilians are the targets of Iranian- and Syrian-backed terror, then the Iranian and Syrian militaries must become targets for Israel."
    Posted by Scott at 06:37 AM | Permalink

  7. #52
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Here is what Bolton...our UN guy is doing

    via Malkin

    Getting word that the UN Security Council is meeting now to consider a "presidential statement" on the situation in Lebanon. I'm printing Ambassador John Bolton's full statement to the UNSC's Special Public Session on Lebanon below the jump:

    Statement by Ambassador John R. Bolton, U.S. Permanent Representative to the United Nations, in the Special Public Session on Lebanon, in the Security Council, July 14, 2006

    Mr. President, in recent days and weeks, we have seen an outbreak of violence in the Middle East, sparked by attacks and kidnappings which Hamas and Hizballah carried out against Israel. Events continue to develop even as we speak.

    Hizballahís incursions across the Blue Line on July 12 were a deliberate and premeditated provocation intended to undermine regional stability and are contrary to the interests of both the Lebanese and Israeli people. We unequivocally condemn the kidnapping by Hizballah, a terrorist organization, of two Israeli soldiers and call for their immediate and unconditional release.

    Provocations across the Blue Line by terrorist groups highlight the urgent need for full and immediate compliance by Syria and Hizballah with relevant UN Security Council resolutions, including 1559, 1583, 1655, and 1680.

    The international community has made clear its desire to see the central authority of the Government of Lebanon extended throughout the country.

    In this context, we underscore the importance of the Security Council Presidentís statement of June 18, 2000 and the Secretary-Generalís conclusion that as of June 16, 2000, Israel had withdrawn all its forces from Lebanon in accordance with UNSC resolution 425 and met the requirements defined in the Secretary-Generalís May 22, 2000 report.

    As President Bush said yesterday, we are concerned about the fragile democracy in Lebanon. While we have been working very hard with partners to strengthen the democracy in Lebanon, we are also making clear that the democratic aspirations of the Lebanese people must not be undermined by the irresponsible and destabilizing actions of Hizballah.

    We have repeatedly made clear to Lebanon and Syria our serious concern about the presence of terrorist groups on their soil and the periodic attacks against Israel from groups and individuals in southern Lebanon.

    All militias in Lebanon, including Hizballah, must disarm and disband immediately and the Lebanese government must extend and exercise its sole and exclusive control over all Lebanese territory.

    President Bush has made clear that Syria and Iran must be held to account for supporting regional terrorism and their role in the current crisis. Syria provides safe haven to the militant wing of Hamas and provides material support to Hizballah, which also maintains an active presence in Syria. Iranís extensive sponsorship and financial and other support of Hizballah is well known and has been ongoing for decades. No reckoning with Hizballah will be adequate without a reckoning with its principal state sponsors of terror.

    We call on Syria and Iran to cease their sponsorship and support of terrorist groups, in particular Hizballah and Hamas. For the third time in two weeks, we again call on Syria to arrest Hamas leader Khaled Meshal, who currently lives in Damascus. There is no excuse for a member state of the United Nations to continue to knowingly harbor a recognized terrorist.

    The Secretary Generalís decision to send a senior level team to the region is a development that is welcomed by my government.

    We are also engaged with the primary parties and other concerned leaders to help restore calm and achieve a resolution to this crisis. In fact, senior U.S. officials are in Jerusalem today for meetings.

    All parties in the region must accept their responsibilities for maintaining security and stability. We urge all parties to accept the principle that governments must exercise sovereign control over territory.

    The United States remains firmly committed to working with others not only to resolve the present situation but toward building longer-term peace and stability in the region.

  8. #53
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Pretty serious stuff.


    And we have 130,000 troops right between Syria and Iran.
    I'm not sure I like that, but I'm also not sure that's a bad thing. But I am pretty sure the whole mess is gonna get worse before it ever gets better.
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  9. #54
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Quote Originally Posted by smoked trout
    Pretty serious stuff.


    And we have 130,000 troops right between Syria and Iran.
    I'm not sure I like that, but I'm also not sure that's a bad thing. But I am pretty sure the whole mess is gonna get worse before it ever gets better.
    Those are the guys I am worried about. I have a feeling they are either going to be pulled out or they are going to be in the fight in a few days.

  10. #55
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    at war against what army?

    its like puting a great dane to kill a chihuahua...

    add a couple 120mm fans overhead to drop temps by 10+ celsiusD.S.C-12(2)-disclaimer : whatever u do with your hardware/software is your
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  11. #56
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidsoul
    Those are the guys I am worried about. I have a feeling they are either going to be pulled out or they are going to be in the fight in a few days.
    Actually I'm glad they are there ATM. It will cause Iran and Syria to think twice .. maybe three times about making any seriously stupid moves. Sure they will do their best to whip up the radicals and the press... but that's par for the course.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  12. #57
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Quote Originally Posted by _dangtx_
    at war against what army?

    its like puting a great dane to kill a chihuahua...
    Who is the great dane and who is the chihuahua?

    Anyway. From what has been posted already, Iran has clearly shown that is supports a terrorist group, and so does Syria. I guess Iraq is now able to control itself, security wise, and will allow the US to protect its borders with Syria and Iran incase those countries start causing more trouble. So, we are very close to a world war here. The only way it can happen is if either of those countries make an explicit move against Israel.
    Last edited by madhatter256; 07-14-2006 at 04:16 PM.

  13. #58
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Quote Originally Posted by _dangtx_
    at war against what army?

    its like puting a great dane to kill a chihuahua...
    And the Great Dane has to change because its bitten by a nasty little dig that hasnt learned?
    And with the dog anology? What usually happens? The unwise little dog dies. The other little dogs change their behaviours.


    Ive read alot today from some Euro nations suggesting the Israeli retaliation [we seem to loose sight of that fact] is disporportionate.
    In other words its unfair.
    Unfair?
    What sort of lame concept is that?
    Some Lebanese terrorists are protected by a warped sense of fairness?
    That Israel should only respond as the terrorists spell out as fair?
    Fight on their terms?

    Plain and simple Israel was provoked. The Hamas and the Lebanise nuts rolled the dice and have lost. Perhaps the civilians will insist the wrong people are taking chances and rid themselves of the groups.
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 07-14-2006 at 04:26 PM.

  14. #59
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal
    And the Great Dane has to change because its bitten by a nasty little dig that hasnt learned?
    And with the dog anology? What usually happens? The unwise little dog dies. The other little dogs change their behaviours.


    Ive read alot today from some Euro nations suggesting the Israeli retaliation [we seem to loose sight of that fact] is disporportionate.
    In other words its unfair.
    Unfair?
    What sort of lame concept is that?
    Some Lebanese terrorists are protected by a warped sense of fairness?
    That Israel should only respond as the terrorists spell out as fair?
    Fight on their terms?
    They should count their blessings and be thankful that Israel does not lower themselves to the terrorists level. They could easily flatten Beirut. Instead they target bridges, the airport and other infrastructure. Some targets may not seem to make sense to the casual observer, I am convinced they have rational reasons as I could easily come up with many reasons for these targets myself. But it is clear they are not just lobbing shells into Lebanon or Gaza willy-nilly as the terrorists they are fighting do.
    Last edited by AMDScooter; 07-14-2006 at 04:31 PM.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  15. #60
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Heres an interesting take we wont hear on the news.

    http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Pu...2/433fwbvs.asp

    ^^Its very important we dont paint this as an Israel-Arab issue..or hold Arabs necessarily responsible.
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 07-14-2006 at 04:40 PM.

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