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  1. #121
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    ^^Carter= appeasement
    Clinton = appeasement

    The appeasement tank is empty. Its down to what matters now: Israel or the demands of the never satisfied.

    http://www.communistsforkerry.com/im...evil_large.jpg
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 07-16-2006 at 07:10 PM.

  2. #122
    Joined
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Madgamer: "Palistine had the choice to not vote in hamas but they did."

    So you're saying that a democratic election is good enough reason to declare war on a country? What if someone were to use that as an excuse to invade the US? "America had the choice to not vote in GWB but they did."

    VERY poor excuse.

    Jimz: "The United Nations Special Commission on Palestine (UNSCOP) recommended that Palestine be divided into an Arab state and a Jewish state. The commission called for Jerusalem to be put under international administration The UN General Assembly adopted this plan on Nov. 29, 1947 as UN Resolution (GA 181), owing to support of both the US and the Soviet Union, and in particular, the personal support of US President Harry S. Truman. "

    The actual formation of Israel was indeed something we largely initiated. The Palestine 'state' was a British Mandate yes, but UN Resolution GA 181 was what created the modern-day Israel.

  3. #123
    Joined
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    SC
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    314

    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Trekari
    I love how you try to blow my position out of perspective in order to knock it down. 'round here we call that a Straw Man argument.

    To the extent of my knowledge, we (the US) have NEVER done anything other than mildly caution Israel about their acts of war. Not once has the US stood up and told Israel "this is wrong, and we will not allow you to continue doing it." In the eyes of the other M.E. countries, we are viewed as a sponsor of Israel and anti-Islam because of our position. We treat Israel as our "golden child" if you will - you know: the parent's favourite child who can do nothing wrong.

    You can nitpick and exaggerate all you want, but one of the primary reasons we are hated and targeted by terrorist groups ourselves is because we plopped down a Jewish nation in the middle of an Islamic area where there wasn't one before and have since supported them in every action they take against Islamic countries.

    My stance on this issue has nothing to do with lettint terrorists just do what they want. Open up your mind and eyes for a moment and you just might figure that out. Israel is NOT an innocent party in all of this.

    Your the one who is exaggerating, no I don't believe Isreal does everything right and makes no mistakes. They do things some times I don't agree with. If you believe we are hated because we dropped Isreal in the middle of a Islamic area, you have your eyes closed or are blind. We would still be hated because of the fact we as a nation do not follow the Isamic faith. Islam hates any body that is not Islam. Their motto is be Islam or be dead. And this is not exaggeration. And before you say I'am wrong and it just those extreme Muslims that are like this, then why don't the average everyday Muslims condemn the acts of the extremist. It is because they silenly support the acts of the extremists.

    I normally don't take part in discussions like this, but this time I had to comment.
    Dr. Seuss for 2011:I do not like this Uncle Sam, I do not like his health care scam. I do not like these dirty crooks, or how they lie and cook the books. I do not like when Congress steals, I do not like their secret deals. I do not like ex-speaker Nan, I do not like this 'YES WE CAN'..I do not like this spending spree, I'm smart, I know that nothing's free. I do not like their smug replies, when I complain about their lies. I do not like this kind of hope. I do not like it. Nope, nope, nope!

  4. #124
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    20,453

    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Trekari
    I love how you try to blow my position out of perspective in order to knock it down. 'round here we call that a Straw Man argument.

    To the extent of my knowledge, we (the US) have NEVER done anything other than mildly caution Israel about their acts of war. Not once has the US stood up and told Israel "this is wrong, and we will not allow you to continue doing it." In the eyes of the other M.E. countries, we are viewed as a sponsor of Israel and anti-Islam because of our position. We treat Israel as our "golden child" if you will - you know: the parent's favourite child who can do nothing wrong.

    You can nitpick and exaggerate all you want, but one of the primary reasons we are hated and targeted by terrorist groups ourselves is because we plopped down a Jewish nation in the middle of an Islamic area where there wasn't one before and have since supported them in every action they take against Islamic countries.

    My stance on this issue has nothing to do with lettint terrorists just do what they want. Open up your mind and eyes for a moment and you just might figure that out. Israel is NOT an innocent party in all of this.
    You've already said in at least one of your posts that Israel doesn't deserve to exist or shouldn't exist... something like that.

    Case closed.

    You and that whack-job in Iran.

  5. #125
    Joined
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    8,887

    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Quote Originally Posted by AAdjuster
    I normally don't take part in discussions like this, but this time I had to comment.
    Yeah, I figured that out when you started whining about "everyday Muslims" and "tacit acceptance".

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar
    You've already said in at least one of your posts that Israel doesn't deserve to exist or shouldn't exist... something like that.

    Case closed.

    You and that whack-job in Iran.
    Marvelous argument there, Dutch.

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker
    Israelis or no Israelis there will be peace in the Middle East a 1000 years after frigging cows learn to fly.
    What do you consider 'peace'?

    Bomb em back to the stone age.

    Oops scratch “stone age” they are still there.

    Bomb em back to what ever preceded the stone age.
    Ah, quite a cogent and informed argument from yet another right-winger. My, how you dextrous individuals seem to have all the answers and knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by /\/\adgamer
    Trekari even if we did tell Isreal "no" they would do it anyway.They have the right to defend themselves.Whether you agree in the exsistance of Isreal or not it isnt going anywhere without a fight.The palistinians and lebanese have chosen between peace and war.Lebanon did have a choice to fight against terrorism or go down burning with it.Palistine had the choice to not vote in hamas but they did.
    Not quite. The Lebanese government doesn't have the power to disarm or rein in Hezbollah. Also, to add to Trekari's words, the Palestinians didn't choose between 'war' and 'peace'. Fatah had been in power how many years and hadn't solved anything? Hadn't improved the lives of the average Palestinian? Voters did have a choice: status quo or the party that provides resources and aid to the average person. The latter was chosen, to the chagrin of the Israelis and the U.S. The world is not black and white as so many people like to portray it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal
    No. WE didnt plop down any nation. Lets not assign all that to the US.
    No, the British did. But let's not forget who gave whom weapons and aid and has vetoed every major resolution against Israel. We're the most prominent country in the world, what being the only superpower. Of course we're going to be blamed for things, even those that are not our fault.

    Further? If it were all as pro Israel as you suggest? Where did the "peace process" come from? You forget that Israel has complied...they have given up ground
    Not always. A two-state solution was put forward in the 70s and rejected by Israel.

    ,...and you also ignore that the Palestinians arent satisfied. And apparently not a part of the Lebonese either.
    Lets not ignore the other side if the equation. The side that will never be satisfied.
    As long as Israel exists. And how rational is that?
    It's not rational, but who says reason plays much of a role in ethnic and religious conflicts?
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  6. #126
    Joined
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    Location
    Fort Collins, CO
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    By all means Dutch, show me where I've *ever* said Israel doesn't deserve to exist? Back up your allegations.

    Nor have I ever said Israel *shouldn't* exist.

    AAdjuster: I have stated the unwaivering support for Israel is *one* of the primary reasons we are hated so much by the Islamic world. You also misunderstood another of my statements: It is our administrations who consider Israel to be a 'poster child.' I have not once said (and did not intend to imply) that each and every American feels that way.

    That is however, the 'official' stance that our foriegn policy demonstrates.

  7. #127
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Marvelous argument there, Dutch.
    It wasn't an argument. It was a dismissal.

  8. #128
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Trekari
    By all means Dutch, show me where I've *ever* said Israel doesn't deserve to exist? Back up your allegations.

    Nor have I ever said Israel *shouldn't* exist.
    Post #80, this thread...
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekari
    As long as we support Isreal (which shouldn't even exist) and basically turn a blind-eye to THEIR atrocities and part in the escalation of violence in the M.E. then we will continue to be hated.

  9. #129
    Joined
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    A Little South of Sanity
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    12,925

    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Trekari
    By all means Dutch, show me where I've *ever* said Israel doesn't deserve to exist? Back up your allegations.

    Nor have I ever said Israel *shouldn't* exist.

    AAdjuster: I have stated the unwaivering support for Israel is *one* of the primary reasons we are hated so much by the Islamic world. You also misunderstood another of my statements: It is our administrations who consider Israel to be a 'poster child.' I have not once said (and did not intend to imply) that each and every American feels that way.

    That is however, the 'official' stance that our foriegn policy demonstrates.
    [In his best Ronald Reagan impersonation] "Well, I do think he caught you with your pants down on this one."

    Quote Originally Posted by Trekari
    Comments (and foreign policy) like this are a big reason why we're absolutely hated and targeted by terrorists and extreme groups:

    As long as we support Isreal (which shouldn't even exist) and basically turn a blind-eye to THEIR atrocities and part in the escalation of violence in the M.E. then we will continue to be hated.
    EDIT: To add a little history of the Hezbollah.

    "Major Hezbollah Acts of Terrorism and Violence

    A) Bombing of Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia killing 19 U.S. servicemen (1996)

    B) Bombing of Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires killing 96 (1994)

    C) Bombing of Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires killing 29 (1992)

    D) Abduction, torture and death of CIA Station Chief in Lebanon (1985)

    E) Hijacking of TWA Flight 847 killing one U.S. Navy diver (1985)

    F) Bombing outside U.S. Embassy annex in Beirut killing 24 (1984)

    G) Car bombing of U.S. Marine Barracks in Beirut killing 241 U.S. servicemen (1983)

    H) Car bombing of U.S. Embassy in Beirut killing 63 people, including 17 Americans (1983)

    I) Car bombing of French military barracks in Beirut killing 58 French paratroopers (1983)"

    If US foreign policy is at fault for the violence and hatred - What exactly would you consider the "Foreign Policy" of the Hezbollah to be?
    Last edited by SteveW; 07-16-2006 at 11:16 PM.

  10. #130
    Joined
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Foxboro, MA
    Posts
    2,610

    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    Not quite. The Lebanese government doesn't have the power to disarm or rein in Hezbollah.
    We should say "not anymore" at least. They've had a number of years to tackle this issue but by the time they got around to it (read: they never tried anyways) it was/is too late. They haven't exactly been a helpless victim. Well, not at first.
    Also, to add to Trekari's words, the Palestinians didn't choose between 'war' and 'peace'. Fatah had been in power how many years and hadn't solved anything? Hadn't improved the lives of the average Palestinian? Voters did have a choice: status quo or the party that provides resources and aid to the average person. The latter was chosen, to the chagrin of the Israelis and the U.S. The world is not black and white as so many people like to portray it.
    That's also the unfortunate truth for Hezbollah's huge popularity. They're the group that listens to the people and builds schools, hospitals, etc. They're also not nearly as corrupt and bureaucratic as the Lebanese government. I can see why they get so much support in the area. We complain of democrats and republicans and having to choose the "lesser of two evils". Just think of what they have to choose from. I wish that this wasn't the case and while they help alot of muslim people, if you support them then you are bringing their war into your living room.
    No, the British did. But let's not forget who gave whom weapons and aid and has vetoed every major resolution against Israel. We're the most prominent country in the world, what being the only superpower. Of course we're going to be blamed for things, even those that are not our fault.
    Israel's history started long before the British gave them the state. Jews began immigrating in the 1890s and purchased a large amount of the land that would become Israel. It wasn't so much as the British gave them the state as the Jews actively immigrated and began forming their own nation. They declared their independence.
    Not always. A two-state solution was put forward in the 70s and rejected by Israel.
    What were the conditions of the solution? I've read a few things but I'm not sure it's in regards to the event you're talking about. I'm not finding the right combination of keywords to find when that had happened.

  11. #131
    Joined
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    Foxboro, MA
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    2,610

    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Also, I found an excellent rap sheet on Hezbollah on the Anti-Defamation League's website. You can see why Iran and Syria is being cautioned by the US considering their complete and total funding and support of them. I encourage everyone to read it.

    http://www.adl.org/Terror/hezbollah.asp

    Hezbollah, Arabic for "party of God," is a pro-Iranian, Shi'ite, south Lebanon-based terrorist organization. Headed by Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah was originally formed in 1982 to drive the Israeli military out of South Lebanon. Although it continues to claim that it is a legitimate resistance organization, Hezbollah's leaders routinely speak of Israel's "illegal existence," "the end and elimination of Israel from the region" and "death to America," Hezbollah views the creation of an Islamic state in Lebanon and the destruction of Israel as steps in the pan-Islamic struggle.

    Over the decades, Hezbollah has grown into a sophisticated political and military network that engages in terrorist-related activity all over the world, perpetrates and plots attacks against Americans, westerners and Jews both inside and outside Lebanon, and cooperates with other international terrorist organizations.

    Hezbollah is funded, armed and trained by Iran and given safe haven, logistical support and operational freedom by Syria. Its international network, according to terrorism analysts, is believed to include at least 15,000 operatives in cells in the U.S., Canada, Argentina, Paraguay, Brazil, Belgium, Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Switzerland, Indonesia, Malaysia, and throughout Africa.

    Western intelligence sources estimate Hezbollah's operational budget to be approximately $200-$500 million annually, including $100 million annually from Iran. Other sources of funding include Syria, charitable organizations, individual donations, legitimate business, and illegitimate businesses such as illegal arms trading, cigarette smuggling, currency counterfeiting, credit card fraud, theft, operating illegal telephone exchanges, and drug trafficking.

    Hezbollah's growing international terrorist activity has raised concerns that the terrorist group may be emerging as a more serious threat than previously considered. Its global terrorist reach has serious policy implications for countries, regional groupings and international organizations that continue to insist that Hezbollah is a legitimate political organization in Lebanon that does not warrant designation as a terrorist group.

  12. #132
    Joined
    Oct 2003
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    8,887

    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Hell, I can't find it either. I read it last night on Wiki, but I've since cleaned out my history.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  13. #133
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    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    Hell, I can't find it either. I read it last night on Wiki, but I've since cleaned out my history.
    Well, if you didn't have to hide the pron history from your girlfriend we wouldn't have this problem

  14. #134
    Joined
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    8,887

    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  15. #135
    Joined
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    Posts
    8,887

    Re: Israel calling up reserve troops

    Ah ha! Found it:

    During the 1978 Camp David negotiations between Israel and Egypt Anwar Sadat proposed the creation of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. Israel refused.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

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