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  1. #1
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    Israel gets it?.....while the rest of the world holds its breath

    Our (USA's) Rules for War #9

    9. When in doubt, hit harder than you think necessary. Success will be
    forgiven. Even the best-intentioned failure will not. When military force is
    used against terrorist networks, it should be used with such power that it
    stuns even our allies. We must get over our cowardice in means. While
    small-scale raids and other knifepoint operations are useful against
    individual targets, broader operations should be overwhelming. Of course,
    targeting limitations may inhibit some efforts but whenever possible,
    maximum force should be used in simultaneous operations at the very
    beginning of a campaign. Do not hesitate to supplement initial target lists
    with extensive bombing attacks on nothing if they can increase the initial
    psychological impact. Demonstrate power whenever you can. Show; don't tell!
    Last edited by TMack409; 08-15-2006 at 09:43 PM.
    -TMack

    "Forgive everyone for everything"

  2. #2
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    Re: Israel gets it.....while the rest of the world holds its breath

    I like how the US says Israel has the right to defend itself, but that they should be careful not to destroy the government . It's like a cat not killing the lizard it is playing with, otherwise it can't play with a dead lizard to chase around. But also, it is a good political middle-ground to stand on while most European countries condemn any retaliation Israel has done, which is typical of them since their oil really does come from the Arab countries.

    Let Israel continue this..

  3. #3
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    Re: Israel gets it.....while the rest of the world holds its breath

    Quote Originally Posted by TMack409
    Our (USA's) Rules for War #9

    9. When in doubt, hit harder than you think necessary. Success will be
    forgiven. Even the best-intentioned failure will not. When military force is
    used against terrorist networks, it should be used with such power that it
    stuns even our allies. We must get over our cowardice in means. While
    small-scale raids and other knifepoint operations are useful against
    individual targets, broader operations should be overwhelming. Of course,
    targeting limitations may inhibit some efforts but whenever possible,
    maximum force should be used in simultaneous operations at the very
    beginning of a campaign. Do not hesitate to supplement initial target lists
    with extensive bombing attacks on nothing if they can increase the initial
    psychological impact. Demonstrate power whenever you can. Show; don't tell!
    Now that makes a lot of sense.

    Say what you mean and do what you say…

  4. #4
    Joined
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    Re: Israel gets it.....while the rest of the world holds its breath

    Here's the problem, when the targets are small groups who blend into the local population that your trying to protect how does overwhelming force work?

  5. #5
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    Re: Israel gets it.....while the rest of the world holds its breath

    "kill em all let god sort it out" mentality

  6. #6
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    Re: Israel gets it.....while the rest of the world holds its breath

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan
    Here's the problem, when the targets are small groups who blend into the local population that your trying to protect how does overwhelming force work?
    Because it forces the issue on the Lebanese government to expell and disarm the nut faction that exists within its borders.

  7. #7
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    Re: Israel gets it.....while the rest of the world holds its breath

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal
    Because it forces the issue on the Lebanese government to expell and disarm the nut faction that exists within its borders.
    Yes. That tactic has worked out so very well in Gaza!

    Now the worst lot of terrorists actually are the govt. with a large popular mandate.

    Quote Originally Posted by madhatter256
    I like how the US says Israel has the right to defend itself, but that they should be careful not to destroy the government
    Typical cowardly statements from the US admin. who are are torn between a desire not to see Lebanon reduced to an anarchic pile of rubble lorded over by various terrorist groups again and a reluctance to tell their bestest WOT allies in the ME to take it easy.
    Last edited by h_a_; 07-14-2006 at 10:44 AM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Israel gets it.....while the rest of the world holds its breath

    Quote Originally Posted by h_a_
    Yes. That tactic has worked out so very well in Gaza!

    Now the worst lot of terrorists actually are the govt. with a large popular mandate.
    That actually is the best situation. No more hiding behind another "government" for them... they ARE the government of a sovereign territory now. That carries responsibilities, such as not starting sh*t with your neighbors. The victim bit just ain't gonna work for them any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by h_a_
    Typical cowardly statements from the US admin. who are are torn between a desire not to see Lebanon reduced to an anarchic pile of rubble lorded over by various terrorist groups again and a reluctance to tell their bestest WOT allies in the ME to take it easy.
    Cowardly statements? Lebanon allows their border with Israel become a Hezbullah militarized zone and this is somehow the US's fault? Odd logic. As useless as the UN is, even they voted for Lebanon to clear Hezbula from the border. An order they are both unwilling and unable to comply with. Israel has been tolerating this for years.... far too long IMHO. Were Canada or Mexico acting in the same manner, snatching up US citizens and soldiers... launching rockets across the border, we would not have waited a day.

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  9. #9
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    Re: Israel gets it.....while the rest of the world holds its breath

    Man I like Bolton... he was the right choice by leaps and bounds IMHO...

    John Bolton addresses the UN

    Mr. President, in recent days and weeks, we have seen an outbreak of violence in the Middle East, sparked by attacks and kidnappings which Hamas and Hizballah carried out against Israel. Events continue to develop even as we speak.

    Hizballah’ s incursions across the Blue Line on July 12 were a deliberate and premeditated provocation intended to undermine regional stability and are contrary to the interests of both the Lebanese and Israeli people. We unequivocally condemn the kidnapping by Hizballah, a terrorist organization, of two Israeli soldiers and call for their immediate and unconditional release.

    Provocations across the Blue Line by terrorist groups highlight the urgent need for full and immediate compliance by Syria and Hizballah with relevant UN Security Council resolutions, including 1559, 1583, 1655, and 1680.

    The international community has made clear its desire to see the central authority of the Government of Lebanon extended throughout the country.

    In this context, we underscore the importance of the Security Council President’ s statement of June 18, 2000 and the Secretary-General’s conclusion that as of June 16, 2000, Israel had withdrawn all its forces from Lebanon in accordance with UNSC resolution 425 and met the requirements defined in the Secretary-General’s s May 22, 2000 report.

    As President Bush said yesterday, we are concerned about the fragile democracy in Lebanon. While we have been working very hard with partners to strengthen the democracy in Lebanon, we are also making clear that the democratic aspirations of the Lebanese people must not be undermined by the irresponsible and destabilizing actions of Hizballah.

    We have repeatedly made clear to Lebanon and Syria our serious concern about the presence of terrorist groups on their soil and the periodic attacks against Israel from groups and individuals in southern Lebanon.

    All militias in Lebanon, including Hizballah, must disarm and disband immediately and the Lebanese government must extend and exercise its sole and exclusive control over all Lebanese territory.

    President Bush has made clear that Syria and Iran must be held to account for supporting regional terrorism and their role in the current crisis. Syria provides safe haven to the militant wing of Hamas and provides material support to Hizballah, which also maintains an active presence in Syria. Iran’s extensive sponsorship and financial and other support of Hizballah is well known and has been ongoing for decades. No reckoning with Hizballah will be adequate without a reckoning with its principal state sponsors of terror.

    We call on Syria and Iran to cease their sponsorship and support of terrorist groups, in particular Hizballah and Hamas. For the third time in two weeks, we again call on Syria to arrest Hamas leader Khaled Meshal, who currently lives in Damascus. There is no excuse for a member state of the United Nations to continue to knowingly harbor a recognized terrorist.

    The Secretary General’ s decision to send a senior level team to the region is a development that is welcomed by my government.

    We are also engaged with the primary parties and other concerned leaders to help restore calm and achieve a resolution to this crisis. In fact, senior U.S. officials are in Jerusalem today for meetings.

    All parties in the region must accept their responsibilities for maintaining security and stability. We urge all parties to accept the principle that governments must exercise sovereign control over territory. The United States remains firmly committed to working with others not only to resolve the present situation but toward building longer-term peace and stability in the region.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  10. #10
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    Re: Israel gets it.....while the rest of the world holds its breath

    It's like Gillerman is reading my thoughts..

    Video: Gillerman confronts Palestinian ambassador in UN hallway
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  11. #11
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    Re: Israel gets it.....while the rest of the world holds its breath

    ha quote

    "Yes. That tactic has worked out so very well in Gaza!

    Now the worst lot of terrorists actually are the govt. with a large popular mandate."


    And if people learn what these elected goons cause? They wont be elected again.
    Really. And what is the perfect solution? Shall the world make Israel evaporate cause these nuts have a bug in the anus that will never be dislodged?
    Does it occurr to anyone perhaps the fanatics just may be wrong and its high time they are shown how wrong they are. That behaviour must change or they will vanish?

    Or shall we try the Jimmy Carter type approach. Lets talk. Lets dream dreams and by the way? How much did you want me to write that check for?

    There is nothing to talk about. IMO

  12. #12
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    Re: Israel gets it.....while the rest of the world holds its breath

    ^^How far did "talking" to Adolph get the Europeans years ago?
    And what wxactly was done finally to resolve the problem?
    Nazi's died. They were crushed.

  13. #13
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    Re: Israel gets it.....while the rest of the world holds its breath

    Good video here of the Peace Loving Palestinian government Hamas plying their trade... martyrdom and terrorism. I cannot imagine why anyone would have issues with these guys as the elected administrators of a neighboring state...

    If you have never visited the site before I'd recommend anyone interested have a look at their video archive.

    #1188 - Hamas 'Izz Al-Din Al-Qassam Brigades - Training and Ideology (Concise Version)
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  14. #14
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    Re: Israel gets it.....while the rest of the world holds its breath

    ^^

    "For some reason, however, many Europeans and Americans can’t bring themselves to accept that Hamas is articulating not a negotiating posture but a religious conviction. By now, most people understand that Islamists consider it impermissible for a Muslim ever to convert to another religion — conversion brings a death sentence in Saudi Arabia and other countries where extreme variants of Islam hold sway. What most people may not realize is that Islamists also believe it is impermissible for land to convert: Territory once conquered by Muslims, they insist, must never revert to the rule of infidels. That includes not just Israel but large parts of Europe. Also Kashmir, they demand, must be Muslim-ruled; that almost certainly was the motive behind this week’s railway bombings in India."

  15. #15
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    Re: Israel gets it.....while the rest of the world holds its breath

    and some follow up thoughts about what some assume is a failure of democracy in Palestine


    Democracy [Michael Ledeen]
    Andy, the claim is not that democracy is perfect; it's that it's the least bad of the available systems. Never mind electing Hamas, the Germans loved Hitler, the Italians adored Mussolini, and at that time the Germans and Italians were rightly admired as cultured, sophisticated, artistic, philosophical...and advanced. So yes, democracy fails. And it often fails in favor of tyranny. The Greeks and Romans used to talk about cycles of politics, generally running from tyranny to autocracy to democracy to mobocracy to tyranny and round and round.

    We know this. We accept this. As we accept that if some of the peoples of the Middle East were free to choose their leaders, they might well choose an Osama of their own.

    But freedom is still the best bet. You want to beat Iran? Get freedom for the Iranians, they made a terrible mistake in 1979 and supported revolution by ayatollah Khomeini, and they voted for him and for the Islamic Republic. Now they know better, and if they get a chance they will not vote in another tyranny. The Syrians never had a choice, but there is every reason to believe they would go for democracy too.

    And don't you agree that the Lebanese failure is not a failure of democracy but a failure of the West to properly support Lebanese democracy? For democracy to work you need strong institutions, not just elections, and we needed to insist that the Syrians get out and stay out, as we need to insist right now that Hizbollah be expelled en toto from Lebanon, and demilitarized in Syria as well.Support for strong democratic states requires seriousness.

    It's wrong to condemn freedom just by saying that some people will do the wrong thing with it. We knew that, it happens everywhere. On balance, if the Middle East were entirely free (I know it's a wacko hypothesis, but still...) it would be a much better place, because the contagion of democracy from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Kuwait (the bare minimum) would be enormous, and the tyrants would have tough going.

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