Iraq in flux

[Orangutan]

Well we have an entire thread dedicated to nothing but the Israel-Hezbollah-Lebanon situation, so why not one for Iraq? Might as well keep things tidy.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html

12 killed by Iraq stadium bombs

Wednesday, August 2, 2006; Posted: 2:06 p.m. EDT (18:06 GMT)

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Two bombs exploded in a Baghdad soccer stadium Wednesday, killing 12 people and wounding 14, police in the Iraqi capital said.

At least seven children were among the dead, police said. The incident took place at 8:15 p.m. in the Amel neighborhood of southwestern Baghdad, while young people were playing soccer and spectators were watching.

Elsewhere on Wednesday, two U.S. troops died as the result of "enemy action" in Iraq's Anbar province, the military said.

A U.S. soldier assigned to 9th Naval Construction Regiment and a Marine assigned to 1st Brigade, 1st Armored Division were killed, the military said. The number of U.S. military fatalities now stands at 2,580.

Five people were also killed in a bombing in Baghdad and a shooting in Diyala province, police said.

At least three people were killed and nine others wounded when the bomb exploded in central Baghdad early Wednesday, Baghdad emergency police told CNN.

The new violence came as Iraqi President Jalal Talabani said Iraqi forces will take over security in all 18 Iraqi provinces by the end of the year, according to a presidential aide. (Full story)

It also came after one of the worst days of bloodshed recently in Iraq Tuesday with a death toll The Associated Press put at at least 70 (Full story).

Tuesday's dead included 20 Iraqi troops, a U.S. soldier and a British soldier.

In Wednesday's violence according to a police official, explosives hidden in a trash bag detonated around 6:30 a.m. in Tayaran Square, a busy area where day laborers gather. A second trash bag exploded a short time later, but caused no casualties.

Less than two hours later, two traffic police were killed and two other officers wounded in Khalis when gunmen fired on their vehicles, an official with the Diyala Joint Coordination Center said. Khalis is about 55 miles north of Baghdad in Diyala province.

In Ramadi, Iraqi security and coalition forces searched Anbar University for insurgents after receiving intelligence reports that indicated the university is being used as an insurgent safe haven and command center, a U.S. military statement said.

"Iraqi and coalition forces have received sniper fire from the university on multiple occasions," the statement said. The operation coincides with a recess in classes.

Ramadi is located about 60 miles west of Baghdad in Anbar province.

Police in Iraq on Wednesday reported three incidents that occurred on Tuesday:

-- In Tal Afar, three Iraqi soldiers were killed and four were wounded in a car bomb.

-- Four people were killed and seven were wounded when gunmen opened fire on two cars carrying Ministry of Electricity employees in northeastern Baghdad.

-- An Iraqi journalist working for Iranian-run Al-Alam Satellite TV was shot dead by gunmen in western Baghdad.

Other developments:

The Associated Press reports that evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said today. (Full story)


Iraqi security forces launched a series of raids in Baghdad on Tuesday aimed at so-called "death squads, the U.S. military said on Wednesday. The U.S. military statement detailed the operations, saying Iraqi forces captured several people in "four early-morning raids in Baghdad," but it did not identify the groups they were targeting or the affiliations of those arrested

CNN producer Mohammed Tawfeeq contributed to this report.

[Soundforbjt]

Shhhhhhh...The Bush supporters want to keep Iraq news quiet. It's going fine, that's all you need to know, Stay the course...etc.

[Snowball 2]

Iraq is a goddam mess. I've been keeping an ear and an eye out for the state of Iraqi affairs and I can tell you it's not good. I'm not looking for a dire situation either. I'd rather be finding happy news but you won't find a day with out a car bombing, brutal sectarian violence, a recent rash of kidnappings, reports of corrupt security forces that draw direct parallels to Saddam's own security forces, death squads...the list goes on.

And I don't have any solution so don't even ask me. Iraq's cancer has metastasized and the prognosis is not good.

[nytmare]

Iraq's cancer has metastasized and the prognosis is not good.

euthanize.

[Enmore]

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Two bombs exploded in a Baghdad soccer stadium Wednesday, killing 12 people and wounding 14, police in the Iraqi capital said.

I heard that they planted the bombs in the stadium and then invited locals to come and play some sort of football (soccer) tournament. It was all quite cold blooded and deliberate.

Lovely people.

[jimzinsocal]

I heard that they planted the bombs in the stadium and then invited locals to come and play some sort of football (soccer) tournament. It was all quite cold blooded and deliberate.

Lovely people.

^^Sure are. Im beginning to see just how powerful the two [religious] groups inability to get along really is. Sort out the insurgency and thats what we have I suppose. Sunni's strike...shia strikes back. People so used to private armies they cant trust a halfway deal.

And how difficult is that for our military? Cant really step into the middle of a private fight and at the same time want to eliminate those that want to dissrupt the process.
Tough process to observe but things have been slow here as well. I guess we need to remind ourselves of that fact. They seem to be so used to "violence" as a solution its a hard habit to shake.

[BlackDragon24]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/...ing/index.html

[Orangutan]

Isn't it funny how almost everyone with experience in the Near East was warning of just this sort of thing happening before the Iraqi invasion? Isn't it funny how our leaders feign the same sort of ignorance with Iraq as they did with the New Orleans levees? "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees."

[jimzinsocal]

^^You mean 20 20 vision looking back?
Some things [as with Iraq] need to be done even if its not a day at the beach.

Shall we leave Hezbullah alone because it might be rough when they are damaged?
In other words pay a sort of "blackmail"?

Sorry but I believe some things are worth the pain.

Katrina? I have a hard time hanging the entire issue on the Federal coathook.

[AMDScooter]

Isn't it funny how almost everyone with experience in the Near East was warning of just this sort of thing happening before the Iraqi invasion? Isn't it funny how our leaders feign the same sort of ignorance with Iraq as they did with the New Orleans levees? "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees."

Only humorous if you think that those people with "experience" being soo predictable it's funny. This is hardly a new phenomena. With any situation of significance the "I told you so" crowd of second guessers and armchair quarterbacks come out of the woodwork to puff their epeens. Hindsight is always 20/20.

[Orangutan]

^^You mean 20 20 vision looking back?
Some things [as with Iraq] need to be done even if its not a day at the beach.

Shall we leave Hezbullah alone because it might be rough when they are damaged?
In other words pay a sort of "blackmail"?

Sorry but I believe some things are worth the pain.

No, jimz. Before the Iraqi invasion there were gobs of people warning that there would be massive civil strife and violence between Shi'a and Sunni if the U.S. did not sweep in quickly, establish a strong central authority, and staff the country with enough security to grasp hold of things before the flames of violence were fanned. Before the war ever happened people were saying this. But did the government listen? No, we're going to be greeted with a rain of flowers, rivers of chocolate, and gumdrop smiles. Now, there are tens of thousands dead and a central government that is impotent. Instead of doing anything to fix the problem we just kind of sit around and lie about how great the country is doing.

Only humorous if you think that those people with "experience" being soo predictable it's funny. This is hardly a new phenomena. With any situation of significance the "I told you so" crowd of second guessers and armchair quarterbacks come out of the woodwork to puff their epeens. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Thanks for emphasizing my point. Do you know who was predicting what is now happening? The experts in the region. Do you know who was saying otherwise? Politicians.

[AMDScooter]

Thanks for emphasizing my point. Do you know who was predicting what is now happening? The experts in the region. Do you know who was saying otherwise? Politicians.

That's emphasising your point? Okey..? How vocal are "The experts in the region" when they are wrong? "Gobs" of people in the region make predictions. Fortunately for us "Gobs" of people in the region do not make policy, our respective politicians do. There are "gobs" of people in Iran, Syria and Lebanon that think Israel will loose the current incursion. Should the Israel army lay down their arms and march post haste into the med until their yarmulkes float?

[otoc]

That's emphasising your point? Okey..? How vocal are "The experts in the region" when they are wrong? "Gobs" of people in the region make predictions. Fortunately for us "Gobs" of people in the region do not make policy, our respective politicians do. There are "gobs" of people in Iran, Syria and Lebanon that think Israel will loose the current incursion. Should the Israel army lay down their arms and march post haste into the med until their yarmulkes float?

JC , scooter, can't you ever stay on one topic? There's a thread about Israel going on right now.

The fact of the matter is there were many who thought the Iraq invasion was a utopian neocon diversion away from the true Afghan mission for terror. That's why the mushroom cloud analogy was used for Iraq by this administration.

Powell was one who was not for this mission. He's gone btw. His words, according to his Chief of Staff, was "utopian".

The neocons believe that to protect Israel we must assert ourselves in the region to create democracies. We are watching what that theory becomes everyday.

If we leave, it will be anarchy. If we stay, it will be a state made up of religious sects at each other's throat. My prediction is that if conditions don't improve we will see civil war and the hopes of the oil paying for the cost of this war the way Wolfie stated will be another pipe dream. But that's the problem with democracies, you need to go to the people for a litmus on where it evolves. We are spectators to it's evolution.

[BlackDragon24]

Only humorous if you think that those people with "experience" being soo predictable it's funny. This is hardly a new phenomena. With any situation of significance the "I told you so" crowd of second guessers and armchair quarterbacks come out of the woodwork to puff their epeens. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Wha-What? The armchair folks are the one second guessing now.....the folks Orang is talking about are the ones who actually predicted this mess before we even even went in.....Certainly there are several armchair quarterbacks who are now playing the we should have never gone in card but never spoke up before hand. But there was also signifigant oppposition from experts who felt that no matter what we do there it will end up like this....mostly from people who had studied middle eastern culture their entire lives and had become what we like to call "experts" on the matters. Certainly more of an expert that the fools who have butchered the campaign over there. Christ even the generals who are in comand are coming out and saying that there is a significant chance that Iraq will deteriorate into civil war.

I mean, I know you try to keep a posiitive outlook on the whole Iraq thing but me thinks your partisanship gets in the way some times of the "truth"

[liquidsoul]

Iraq is a complete mess. I question what "progress" has been made. The central government is a clearly incompetent and the Iraqi soldiers are hardly ready to take over the country. It will turn into a civil war and religion will be one of the causes of the turmoil.