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Thread: Iraq in flux

  1. #31
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    Re: Iraq in flux

    Quote Originally Posted by bk94si
    Do you honestly think that what you see on the news is representative of the whole country? What must you think of the US of A? If you look at the news it looks worse than Iraq.
    How many bombings have there been in the US this month?

    Is it bad enough that any of the police forces in the US need helicopter gunships and tanks and other military tools just to keep a semblence of order?

    It's pretty incredible that people can still believe that the US invasion of Iraq was actually a good idea!

    EdIt:I wonder:
    If the Bush admin. decide to cut their losses in the next two years for electoral purposes and leave Iraq to sink or swim without US troops propping up the govt., will the same people say that that is an excellent idea too?
    Last edited by h_a_; 08-04-2006 at 10:27 AM.

  2. #32
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    Re: Iraq in flux

    I was referring to TV news where half of the US news is murders, rapes, kidnappings, etc. You would get the idea that there are murders on every corner and it wasn't safe to go out of the house.

    And, yes, eventually we will have to let them sink or swim on their own. Obviously, that time is not now.

  3. #33
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    Re: Iraq in flux

    You know what I think of when I read all the tribal/religious violence in Iraq?
    Gangs of New York.[History of NYC circa 1840-90 or so]
    Things here havent always been a ride in the park.

  4. #34
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    Re: Iraq in flux

    this is one time I wish the generals didn't agree with me:
    "Iraq could move toward civil war" if the violence is not contained, Gen. John Abizaid, the top U.S. commander in the Middle East, told the Senate Armed Services Committee.

    "I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I have seen it," he said, adding that the top priority in Iraq is to secure the capital, where factional violence has surged in recent weeks despite efforts by the new Iraqi government to stop the fighting.

    Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the panel, "We do have the possibility of that devolving into civil war." He added that this need not happen and stressed that ultimately it depends on the Iraqis more than on the U.S. military.

    "Shiite and Sunni are going to have to love their children more than they hate each other," Pace said, before the tensions can be overcome. "The weight of that must be on the Iraqi people and the Iraqi government."

    President Bush and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld have steadfastly refused to call the situation in Iraq a civil war, although Rumsfeld at a news conference on Wednesday acknowledged that the violence is increasing.

    Talking to reporters aboard Air Force One Thursday as Bush flew to Texas, press secretary Tony Snow said the generals had "reiterated something we've talked about on a number of occasions, which is the importance of securing Baghdad, which is why … you're going to see more and more of a troop presence in Baghdad. … Obviously, sectarian violence is a concern."

    Asked specifically to state the White House's reaction to the statements about a possible civil war, Snow replied, "Ok, well, I don't think the president is going to quibble with his generals on their characterizations."

    The commanders' remarks about the threat of a civil war came just three months before congressional elections in which Bush administration policy in Iraq looms as a defining issue. Many voters have tired of the 3-year-old war, which has cost more than 2,500 U.S. lives and more than a quarter trillion taxpayer dollars.
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2270566


  5. #35
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    Re: Iraq in flux

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html

    Thousands of Iraqis rally for Hezbollah

    Friday, August 4, 2006; Posted: 10:07 a.m. EDT (14:07 GMT)

    BAGHDAD (CNN) -- Tens of thousands of people marched through the streets of Baghdad on Friday, enthusiastically voicing support for Lebanon's Hezbollah militia.

    Angry protesters chanted slogans, burned Israeli flags and waved Lebanese and Hezbollah flags in the Iraqi capital's densely populated Shiite enclave of Sadr City. They also held up placards with the portrait of Hassan Nasrallah, head of Hezbollah.

    The Shiite militant group Hezbollah has been fighting Israel in a fierce cross-border war that so far has claimed the lives of 644 Lebanese and 68 Israelis. (Latest developments)

    Sunni-Shiite sectarian strife has plagued Iraq in recent months, but many Iraqis have been incensed over the recent fighting in Lebanon. Of Iraq's 26 million people, 60 percent are believed to be Shiite Muslims.

    Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, a Shiite, has criticized Israel over its assault on targets in Lebanon. Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr -- who has a strong following in the Shiite neighborhood -- also has denounced Israel.

    Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers sparked the fighting in a cross-border raid July 12.

    Baghdad's march came on the heels of Thursday's Senate testimony from the commander of U.S. forces in the Mideast warning that if Iraqi violence is not brought under control, particularly in the capital, the country could descend into civil war. (Full story)

    Car bombings, clashes in Mosul
    Insurgents and police slugged it out Friday across the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, leaving three police officers and an unknown number of insurgents dead.

    The clashes led officials to enforce a citywide curfew until dawn on Saturday.

    The violence erupted as 3,500 U.S. troops were being moved from the Mosul area to Baghdad to help bolster security in the capital.

    Fighting raged in at least eight neighborhoods in Mosul, the largest city in Iraq's northern tier about 250 miles (400 kilometers) north of Baghdad.

    At least 80 insurgents drove vehicles into several neighborhoods and attacked police patrols and checkpoints, police said.

    Two car bombs also went off. In one of the attacks, Col. Jassim Mohammed Bilal, a police battalion commander, and two other police officers were slain when attackers targeted his convoy in the eastern Noor neighborhood, said Nineveh province Gov. Duraid Kashmoula.

    Police and civilians were wounded in the blast. The bodies of an unknown number of insurgents were strewn on the ground across the city.

    South of Mosul, a suicide bomber in a pickup struck a police patrol near a sports field Thursday night, killing 10 people, according to a Mosul police official.

    Three police officers were among the dead, and 12 others, including seven police, were wounded in the attack in Hadhar, about 55 miles (88 kilometers) south of Mosul.

    Other developments

    U.S.-led coalition forces staged operations in Baquba and near Baghdad in the last 24 hours, leading to the killings and arrests of insurgents, the U.S. military said. Those targeted in the Baquba raid had ties to a senior leader in al Qaeda in Iraq, the military said. Coalition forces killed at least three insurgents in an airstrike and raids southeast of Baghdad. Nineteen people also were detained in raids Thursday near Ramadi and Falluja in the volatile Anbar province west of the capital.


    Six Marines have been charged with assaulting an Iraqi civilian in Hamdaniya in April, the U.S. military said Thursday. The case is separate from one involving allegations against Marines in the killing of an Iraqi man in the same town, also in April. (Full story)

    CNN's Mohammed Tawfeeq contributed to this report.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  6. #36
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    Re: Iraq in flux

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    More good news concerning the land between the rivers:

    http://today.reuters.com/news/newsar...News-newsOne-3
    Out of curiosity your point/position is?

  7. #37
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    Re: Iraq in flux

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker
    Out of curiosity your point/position is?
    I'm just posting news items about Iraq here.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  8. #38
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    Re: Iraq in flux

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    I'm just posting news items about Iraq here.
    ^^^ You'll notice an acute absence of any good news from Iraq in Orang's posts tucker, I'm sensing a theme. You make the call...
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  9. #39
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    Re: Iraq in flux

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    I'm just posting news items about Iraq here.
    Oh ok, I thought there might have been some kind of assumption like guilty until proven innocent.

  10. #40
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    Re: Iraq in flux

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter
    ^^^ You'll notice an acute absence of any good news from Iraq in Orang's posts tucker, I'm sensing a theme. You make the call...
    It certainly doesn’t seem to be a “measured response”. In fact it’s more similar to “carpet bombing”…

  11. #41
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    Re: Iraq in flux

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter
    ^^^ You'll notice an acute absence of any good news from Iraq in Orang's posts tucker, I'm sensing a theme. You make the call...
    Why don't you find me this "good news" that has come out of Iraq since I started the thread, then? Gumdrop smiles...



    Quote Originally Posted by tucker
    Oh ok, I thought there might have been some kind of assumption like guilty until proven innocent.
    Nope, just news there. If it's true, it certainly doesn't help our case in Iraq. If it's not true, it doesn't help our case either. Nothing is faster than rumor.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  12. #42
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    Re: Iraq in flux

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker
    It certainly doesn’t seem to be a “measured response”. In fact it’s more similar to “carpet bombing”…
    I'd question the motives of anyone who thinks the charging of 6 Marines is "Good news".

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  13. #43
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    Re: Iraq in flux

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    Why don't you find me this "good news" that has come out of Iraq since I started the thread, then? Gumdrop smiles...
    Look for yourself if you are genuinely interested, a point I seriously doubt. Google too difficult to manage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    Nope, just news there. If it's true, it certainly doesn't help our case in Iraq. If it's not true, it doesn't help our case either. Nothing is faster than rumor.
    And Orang loves nothing more than perpetuating bad rumors about Iraq.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  14. #44
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    Re: Iraq in flux

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    Nope, just news there. If it's true, it certainly doesn't help our case in Iraq. If it's not true, it doesn't help our case either. Nothing is faster than rumor.
    I reluctantly agree with that but it certainly doesn’t make it fair or balanced. It’s kind of like a political/media lynching if you were to ask me.

  15. #45
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    Re: Iraq in flux

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker
    I reluctantly agree with that but it certainly doesn’t make it fair or balanced. It’s kind of like a political/media lynching if you were to ask me.
    Well, I think we ought to make our investigations and trials of such things very public. We need to show people that we don't condone such behavior and do our best to keep it from happening. People need to trust us, and members of the military misbehaving only to have their actions 'swept under the rug' engender trust very little.

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter
    Look for yourself if you are genuinely interested, a point I seriously doubt. Google too difficult to manage?
    Yours is the burden of proof here. You make the assertion, you back it up.

    And Orang loves nothing more than perpetuating bad rumors about Iraq.
    I assume you aren't up on your Virgil.

    I'd question the motives of anyone who thinks the charging of 6 Marines is "Good news".
    Apparently you're not keeping the batteries in your sarcasm detector charged either.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

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