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  1. #1
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    Afghanistan and Pakistan

    Yup... you know.. the other war that the Democrats voted yes to authorize.. ssshhhh... people are still dying in Afghanistan also...


    Market blast kills 21 civilians in Afghanista

    Market blast kills 21 civilians in Afghanistan
    Updated 8/3/2006 11:37 AM ET E-mail | Save | Print |
    KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (AP) — A suicide car bomb in a crowded market killed 21 civilians in southern Afghanistan Thursday and two roadside bombs in the same province killed a Canadian soldier and wounded four others.

    The soldier's death was NATO's fourth fatality since taking command of southern Afghanistan from the U.S.-led coalition Monday.

    Thirteen people were injured in the blast at the market in Kandahar province, provincial government spokesman Dawood Ahmazi said.

    A spokesman for NATO-led Canadian forces in Kandahar, Maj. Scott Lundy, said a NATO patrol was moving through the area where the blast occurred, but no troops were hurt.

    "They were close enough to hear the blast," he said, adding that it was impossible to determine if the convoy was the target.

    Some of the victims were children, Interior Ministry spokesman Yousef Stanezai said.

    Meanwhile, a pre-dawn blast killed Cpl. Christopher Jonathan Reid and wounded a fellow soldier patrolling a key highway on the outskirts of Kandahar city, Lundy said.

    Another explosion in the same spot three hours later wounded three other Canadian soldiers on the same patrol. All the wounded soldiers were expected to return to duty, Lundy said.

    Reid was the 18th Canadian killed in Afghanistan since 2002.

    In another part of the volatile south, police backed by NATO warplanes killed 10 suspected Taliban, a police chief said.

    The Taliban militia has stepped up attacks this year, sparking fighting with foreign and Afghan forces that has left more than 900 people, mostly militants, dead since May.

    Police acting with NATO air support killed 10 Taliban fighters in Helmand province late Wednesday, and were engaged in battle there Thursday with militants trying to recover the bodies from the battlefield, local police chief Ghulam Rasool said.

    The clashes happened in mountains near the village of Thakhatul in Garmser district. Rasool was transferred to Garmser and given an unusually large contingent of 200 police to fight the Taliban after insurgents briefly took over the district last month.

    In the southern Zabul province, 12 highway police manning a checkpoint abandoned their post overnight, said Yousef Stanezai, a spokesman for Interior Ministry.

    Stanezai said the men defected as the police were preparing to arrest them for extorting money from motorists and hijacking a fuel truck.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  2. #2
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    Re: The other war thread

    I am all for the war in Afghanistan!

    This is where the real "coalition" is.


  3. #3
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    Re: The other war thread

    Iraq in flux

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc

    The fact of the matter is there were many who thought the Iraq invasion was a utopian neocon diversion away from the true Afghan mission for terror.

    If we leave, it will be anarchy.
    couldn't pass up the catch word from the above link.


    i quess trying to maintain the status quo and moving on to the primary goal, wasn't such a good plan.

    Afghanistan close to anarchy, warns general


    The most senior British military commander in Afghanistan today described the situation in the country as "close to anarchy" with feuding foreign agencies and unethical private security companies compounding problems caused by local corruption.

    The stark warning came from Lieutenant General David Richards, head of Nato's international security force in Afghanistan, who warned that western forces there were short of equipment and were "running out of time" if they were going to meet the expectations of the Afghan people.





    bb

  4. #4
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    Re: The other war thread

    Quote Originally Posted by baghdad bob
    Iraq in flux



    couldn't pass up the catch word from the above link.


    i quess trying to maintain the status quo and moving on to the primary goal, wasn't such a good plan.

    Afghanistan close to anarchy, warns general









    bb
    hey there bb!

    WTF is with scooter? The one war that the entire nation was behind is now being spun something the Democrats have forgotten?

    Gee whiz, that hat of his must be getting too tight if he's trying to polarize the most non-partisan supported action we have seen in this country since Bush took office.

    The support for that war went across party lines, and even had the support of people like me: those with no party.

    I'm glad you posted this. I was wondering about how the poopy crop was this year, which to me is the true indicator of a successful insertion of Democracy:

    How to eradicate opium poppies - an issue repeatedly highlighted by ministers - was a problem that could only be tackled later.General Sir Mike Jackson, the head of the British army, said recently: "To physically eradicate [opium poppies] before all the conditions are right seems to me to be counter-productive." The government admits that Helmand province is about to produce a bumper poppy crop and is now probably the biggest single source of heroin in the world. Ministers are concerned about criticism the government will face if planting over the next few months for next year's crop - in an area patrolled by British troops - is not significantly reduced.
    So far the track record for accomplishments in the Bush neocon democracy parade don't seem to be doing so well except in the right wing blogs written by those who aren't actually living in those 2 countries.


    Hell, the American people are willing to wait another bunch of years to get Bin-Ladel and find those tons of threatening WMDs and mobile factories that Chalabi's guys were feeding us with, so I guess we'll be willing to wait another bunch of years for the infrastructure to be built in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    The question is will the people in those countries be just as willing to wait...

  5. #5
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    Re: The other war thread

    Another relevent question is how long will we put up with $3.00/Gal gasoline (and the inevitable inflation of all other energy costs) while paying (borrowing) billions to keep the US military occupying the worlds largest non-producing oil fields.
    Last edited by TheGlasMan; 08-04-2006 at 01:54 PM.


    "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."
    - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

  6. #6
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    Re: The other war thread

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc
    hey there bb!

    WTF is with scooter? The one war that the entire nation was behind is now being spun something the Democrats have forgotten?
    The Dems and MSM... where are your dire predictions and constant harping about Afghanistan OTOC? Oh, that's right. The dems and left "support" Afghanistan so there really are no issues there. People are still dying. But it's not GWB's Iraq so things must be all peaches and cream...

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc
    Gee whiz, that hat of his must be getting too tight if he's trying to polarize the most non-partisan supported action we have seen in this country since Bush took office.
    You sure sya "gee-wizz" a lot. Tinfoil hat cuttin off circulation to the last remaining operational brain cell? I'm trying to polarize... surely ye jest... hypocrite.

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc
    The support for that war went across party lines, and even had the support of people like me: those with no party.
    Right... still pushing the "centrist" bit in rather weak attempts to prop up your obviously left leaning viewpoint? Give it a rest already. No one is buying what ur selling.

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc
    I'm glad you posted this. I was wondering about how the poopy crop was this year, which to me is the true indicator of a successful insertion of Democracy:

    So far the track record for accomplishments in the Bush neocon democracy parade don't seem to be doing so well except in the right wing blogs written by those who aren't actually living in those 2 countries.
    But wait... your party supported Afghanistan also. What steps is the left taking to ensure success in Afghanistan? Or are we to cut and run from there also?

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc
    Hell, the American people are willing to wait another bunch of years to get Bin-Ladel and find those tons of threatening WMDs and mobile factories that Chalabi's guys were feeding us with, so I guess we'll be willing to wait another bunch of years for the infrastructure to be built in Afghanistan and Iraq.
    That's right, because the majority of Americans know these things take time to accomplish. They also understand that the "do nothing" left is not capable of mush more than tossing a well orchestrated tantrum every now and then. Which is why the repugs still control both houses and the presidency even though the left pissed and moaned about Iraq.. a war they support and don't support at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc
    The question is will the people in those countries be just as willing to wait...
    There is no question that under the Taliban and Saddam they had no hope for a change at all. I'd say the majority of them are more than willing. Afghanistan and Iraq police/army personnel die for this cause that they believe in also.

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  7. #7
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    Re: The other war thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter
    The Dems and MSM... where are your dire predictions and constant harping about Afghanistan OTOC? Oh, that's right. The dems and left "support" Afghanistan so there really are no issues there. People are still dying. But it's not GWB's Iraq so things must be all peaches and cream...



    You sure sya "gee-wizz" a lot. Tinfoil hat cuttin off circulation to the last remaining operational brain cell? I'm trying to polarize... surely ye jest... hypocrite.



    Right... still pushing the "centrist" bit in rather weak attempts to prop up your obviously left leaning viewpoint? Give it a rest already. No one is buying what ur selling.



    But wait... your party supported Afghanistan also. What steps is the left taking to ensure success in Afghanistan? Or are we to cut and run from there also?



    That's right, because the majority of Americans know these things take time to accomplish. They also understand that the "do nothing" left is not capable of mush more than tossing a well orchestrated tantrum every now and then. Which is why the repugs still control both houses and the presidency even though the left pissed and moaned about Iraq.. a war they support and don't support at the same time.



    There is no question that under the Taliban and Saddam they had no hope for a change at all. I'd say the majority of them are more than willing. Afghanistan and Iraq police/army personnel die for this cause that they believe in also.

    lol, someone woke up one the wrong side of reality today again.

    You post:
    Yup... you know.. the other war that the Democrats voted yes to authorize.. ssshhhh... people are still dying in Afghanistan also...
    like noone else supported it and pretend that non-supporters of this administration don't keep bringing up the lack of focus that Iraq did to Afghanistan and the hunt for Bin-Ladel.

    Tell me I'm wrong that your words don't imply that a non-supporter can only be a Democrat or a liberal and then explain to me how that is not polarizing.

    As to whether or not the people of Iraq or Afghanistan will have the patience:
    Quote Originally Posted by a general in Afghanistan
    The stark warning came from Lieutenant General David Richards, head of Nato's international security force in Afghanistan, who warned that western forces there were short of equipment and were "running out of time" if they were going to meet the expectations of the Afghan people.
    and

    Quote Originally Posted by a couple more generals
    "Iraq could move toward civil war" if the violence is not contained, Gen. John Abizaid, the top U.S. commander in the Middle East, told the Senate Armed Services Committee.

    "I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I have seen it," he said, adding that the top priority in Iraq is to secure the capital, where factional violence has surged in recent weeks despite efforts by the new Iraqi government to stop the fighting.

    Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the panel, "We do have the possibility of that devolving into civil war."
    if that shows a situation of patience in those countries I shudder to think what it would be like if the people were getting tired of us.

  8. #8
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    Re: The other war thread

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc
    lol, someone woke up one the wrong side of reality today again.
    Yup.. you met him at the mirror again this morning.

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc
    like noone else supported it and pretend that non-supporters of this administration don't keep bringing up the lack of focus that Iraq did to Afghanistan and the hunt for Bin-Ladel.
    Lack of focus pitch eh? Taking notes from Hillaries tirade yesterday? Show me where we diverted resources from Afghanistan to Iraq. There were many issues common to all wars we encountered. But please... do provide some evidence as to this lack of focus. Your tendency to make untrue statements precedes your claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc
    Tell me I'm wrong that your words don't imply that a non-supporter can only be a Democrat or a liberal and then explain to me how that is not polarizing.
    Oh, you are wrong.. and on nearly every point you try to make. That you actually believe anyone who has read the whole of your published "works" in this forum can walk away with and conclusion OTHER than you are a bleeding heart Liberal Democrat is rather humorous. I'd have an easier time convincing people I am black and 6'7. (I'm 5'9 and Oriental).

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc
    As to whether or not the people of Iraq or Afghanistan will have the patience:
    and

    if that shows a situation of patience in those countries I shudder to think what it would be like if the people were getting tired of us.
    Again... you see only what you like. Continue to focus on what "could" happen as if it has already occurred. We will continue to take necessary steps to ensure what you and the rest of the left seem to be wishing happens does not come true.

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  9. #9
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    Re: The other war thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter
    The Dems and MSM... where are your dire predictions and constant harping about Afghanistan OTOC? Oh, that's right. The dems and left "support" Afghanistan so there really are no issues there. People are still dying. But it's not GWB's Iraq so things must be all peaches and cream...
    Ok, now you're comparing Iraq to Afghanistan?! There's a HUGE difference between the two. Afghanistan houses, or at least we hope still houses that guy and his terrorist organization that attacked our country. You know, his name is...um...let me think for a while as I haven't heard it now in months...Oh yes, Osama bin Laden! Contrary to what Bush would have you believe, it was NOT Saddam who ordered his henchmen to fly the planes into the buildings on September 11th. The smart money is on the A-hole who came on tv and said he did it.

    I simply can NOT understand why Americans would vote again for the idiot who lets Osama live and doesn't even consider him an objective anymore! Yea, Kerry sucked too but at least LOOK at a third party as an option. Stay the course! Icebergs spotted in the area? Who cares? Full steam ahead! Oh but that's ok 'cause we're gonna free the Iraqi's. But I thought we were going in because Iraq was actually a threat to the American way of life, you know to find WMD's and make sure they don't have... Cue "Team America" theme. Hell Yea! It's only going to cost an indefinite amount of money and lives, and the big bonus here is that it really never has to end. Who's to say when Iraqi's are truly free. Of course we'll use Iraqi oil to help pay for the war, umm, someday after we've stabilized the entire region and inserted a free democracy in the heart of the ME.
    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”

    ― George Orwell, 1984

  10. #10
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    Re: The other war thread

    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  11. #11
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    Re: The other war thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kbohip
    Ok, now you're comparing Iraq to Afghanistan?! There's a HUGE difference between the two. Afghanistan houses, or at least we hope still houses that guy and his terrorist organization that attacked our country. You know, his name is...um...let me think for a while as I haven't heard it now in months...Oh yes, Osama bin Laden! Contrary to what Bush would have you believe, it was NOT Saddam who ordered his henchmen to fly the planes into the buildings on September 11th. The smart money is on the A-hole who came on tv and said he did it.

    I simply can NOT understand why Americans would vote again for the idiot who lets Osama live and doesn't even consider him an objective anymore! Yea, Kerry sucked too but at least LOOK at a third party as an option. Stay the course! Icebergs spotted in the area? Who cares? Full steam ahead! Oh but that's ok 'cause we're gonna free the Iraqi's. But I thought we were going in because Iraq was actually a threat to the American way of life, you know to find WMD's and make sure they don't have... Cue "Team America" theme. Hell Yea! It's only going to cost an indefinite amount of money and lives, and the big bonus here is that it really never has to end. Who's to say when Iraqi's are truly free. Of course we'll use Iraqi oil to help pay for the war, umm, someday after we've stabilized the entire region and inserted a free democracy in the heart of the ME.
    I made the comparison as it pertained to partisan support.. perhaps you should read the post again. And please do keep asking yourself why the conservatives are able to control the presidency and both houses despite the MSM and Lefts claims, you might have a moment of clarity. Hint: The majority in this country do not trust the left with their media driven agenda to run the country.
    Last edited by AMDScooter; 08-04-2006 at 04:18 PM.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  12. #12
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    Re: The other war thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter
    And please do keep asking yourself why the conservatives are able to control the presidency and both houses despite the MSM and Lefts claims, you might have a moment of clarity.
    Fear, ignorance, deception, greed, and money. It's just that the current Republican puppet-masters are more adept than their opponents.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  13. #13
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    Re: The other war thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    Fear, ignorance, deception, greed, and money. It's just that the current Republican puppet-masters are more adept than their opponents.
    We will not try to take credit for the fact that the voting American public can plainly see the opposition's incompetence. It would appear that the voters are a damn sight smarter than any of their supposed "intellectual superiors" on the left would have us believe. If you start thinking everyone else is dumb, the stupid one is probably you.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  14. #14
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    Re: The other war thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan
    Fear, ignorance, deception, greed, and money. It's just that the current Republican puppet-masters are more adept than their opponents.
    Yeah, that's about what it comes down to.

  15. #15
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    Re: The other war thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter
    Yup.. you met him at the mirror again this morning.



    Lack of focus pitch eh? Taking notes from Hillaries tirade yesterday? Show me where we diverted resources from Afghanistan to Iraq. There were many issues common to all wars we encountered. But please... do provide some evidence as to this lack of focus. Your tendency to make untrue statements precedes your claims.



    Oh, you are wrong.. and on nearly every point you try to make. That you actually believe anyone who has read the whole of your published "works" in this forum can walk away with and conclusion OTHER than you are a bleeding heart Liberal Democrat is rather humorous. I'd have an easier time convincing people I am black and 6'7. (I'm 5'9 and Oriental).



    Again... you see only what you like. Continue to focus on what "could" happen as if it has already occurred. We will continue to take necessary steps to ensure what you and the rest of the left seem to be wishing happens does not come true.

    Actually I have been consistent in this forum about the lack of focus and how Afghanistan was a true mission that was not completed. A search of this forum is all that it takes to disprove your Hillary tirade. Where have we moved resources to Iraq away from Afghanistan? Where is bin-ladel, the guy most wanted who would be brought in dead or alive. Why is the Afghan situation still in infrastructure mode? Why are rotations being cancelled?


    While I always appreciate an opinion I do wish you would explain your optimism that we "We will continue to take necessary steps to ensure what you and the rest of the left seem to be wishing happens does not come true."

    It was 3 generals that pointed out the current situation is not good and anarchy or civil war is where those countries teeter in spite of the "necessary steps" that have been taken during the past years.

    Btw, are you calling the generals "of the left" for pointing out the realities of our current situation?

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