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  1. #16
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    Re: The other war thread

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc

    Btw, are you calling the generals "of the left" for pointing out the realities of our current situation?
    wow, that could have beem me! if i had only taken up the us military's invitation to attend westpoint. i could have infiltrated the pentagon at an early age and be issuing press statements to the MSM. it may have been a little tough surviving as guest of honor, the twice a week blanket parties.





    general bb, "bush is clueless when it comes to the war on terror".

    ....but i'll have to settle for, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery!


    The revenge of Baghdad Bob

    With Blair at his side, Bush trotted out his usual talking points on Iraq, speaking of freedom and remarking, "This is the vision chosen by Iraqis in elections in January." Bush added, "We'll support Iraqis as they take the lead in providing their own security. Our strategy is clear: We're training Iraqi forces so they can take the fight to the enemy, so they can defend their country, and then our troops will come home with the honor they have earned." He again trumpeted his alleged policy of spreading democracy in the region as a way of combating the "bitterness and hatred" that "feed the ideology of terror."
    "policy of spreading democracy in the region". that's going to stand up as well as the "domino theory" 40 years ago.



    Today, many of his predictions, such as the one that the Iraqis would hurl "bullets and shoes" at the invading U.S. military, not bouquets of roses, have come true. But if imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, Sahhaf has been honored on a higher plane. His rhetorical strategy, of simply denying reality, has now been taken over by his arch-nemesis, George W. Bush.









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  2. #17
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    Re: The other war thread

    the game before the last dance, the pep rally, the forgotten war!

    instead of a sure win, we'll end up 0 & 2.




    NATO general: More troops needed in Afghanistan

    NATO's top commander on Thursday urged allied nations to send reinforcements to war-ravaged southern Afghanistan.

    Taliban militants are inflicting heavy casualties on foreign forces there and captured a remote town from police for the second time in two months.

    Speaking in Belgium after visiting Afghanistan this week, Gen. James L. Jones said the coming weeks could be decisive for thousands of troops fighting Taliban in southern provinces, amid the worst upsurge in violence since the hard-line regime's ouster in late 2001 for hosting Osama bin Laden.

    NATO had been surprised by the intensity of Taliban attacks since the alliance moved into the volatile region and by insurgents' willingness to stand and fight rather than hit-and-run, he said.



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    Last edited by baghdad bob; 10-08-2006 at 11:31 PM.

  3. #18
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    Re: The other war thread



    Rumsfeld Cites Progress in Afghanistan

    Rumsfeld, in an opinion piece in Saturday's edition of The Washington Post, said Afghanistan's economy has tripled in five years, its forces have grown by 1,000 soldiers a month, the number of students in school has grown fivefold and 80 percent of the population has access to basic health care, up from 8 percent.

    Ticking off more progress, he cited the building of 25 courthouses, a 70 percent jump in revenue and even Coca-Cola's opening of a $25 million bottling plant in Kabul.

    ``Building a new nation is never a straight, steady climb upward,'' he wrote. ``Today can sometimes look worse than yesterday - or even two months ago. What matters is the overall trajectory.''

    Rumsfeld touched on only a few of the setbacks, including a surge in the drug production that the Taliban had almost wiped out five years earlier.

    But the defense secretary glossed over other dangers: The Taliban has taken control large parts of the countryside, more than 3,000 people have been killed in rising violence this year, and militants have been assassinating political figures, burning down schools and creating havoc with roadside bombs.

    Afghans May Back Taliban, General Warns

    NATO's top commander in Afghanistan warned on Sunday that a majority of Afghans would likely switch their allegiance to resurgent Taliban militants if their lives show no visible improvements in the next six months.

    Gen. David Richards, a British officer who commands NATO's 32,000 troops here, told The Associated Press that he would like to have about 2,500 additional troops to form a reserve battalion to help speed up reconstruction and development efforts.

    He said the south of the country, where NATO troops have fought their most intense battles this year, has been ``broadly stabilized,'' which gives the alliance an opportunity to launch projects there. If it doesn't, he estimates about 70 percent of Afghans could switch their allegiance from NATO to the Taliban.

    ``They will say, 'We do not want the Taliban but then we would rather have that austere and unpleasant life that that might involve than another five years of fighting,''' Richards said in an interview.

    ``We have created an opportunity,'' following the intense fighting that left over 500 militants dead in the southern provinces of Kandahar and Helmand, he said. ``If we do not take advantage of this, then you can pour an additional 10,000 troops next year and we would not succeed because we would have lost by then the consent of the people.''



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  4. #19
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    Re: The other war thread

    http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...0.html?cnn=yes

    World

    How NATO Chose to Fail in Afghanistan

    Analysis: The Riga summit was meant to turn around an Alliance mission in trouble. But its a mission for which there's little political will

    By JAMES GRAFF/PARIS

    Posted Monday, Dec. 04, 2006


    The yardstick by which the success of NATO's summit in the Latvian capital of Riga would be measured was always going to be Afghanistan. By engaging 32,000 troops there - its first full-scale military action outside of Europe - against a now resurgent Taliban, the Western alliance had posed itself a cruel test of solidarity in one of the world's most historically ungovernable patches. Last week it effectively failed the test.

    President George W. Bush and his key allies — Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair, Canadian leader Stephen Harper and NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer — wanted a greater sharing of the burden, and to give ground commanders full authority to deploy troops as they see fit, rather than be required to refer back to defense ministries in Europe's capitals. But the caveats that keep Italian, French, German and Spanish troops out of the heavy combat zones in the south of the country were not significantly relaxed. The Poles offered up an additional 1,000 troops toward the 2,500 reserve force that NATO military staff consider crucial to prosecute the war, and the French were among the allies promising to deploy troops to trouble spots in the event of "an emergency." But the sum effect was cold comfort for the Canadian, British, American and Dutch governments whose troops are bearing the brunt of the conflict. Canadian Foreign Minister Peter McKay, whose country has lost 40 soldiers this year, expressed concerns that an already jittery Canadian public could begin to balk at its commitment if its allies aren't seen as pulling their weight.

    NATO in Afghanistan has become an institutional fig leaf for an ad-hoc and unstable coalition of the willing. The crux of the Atlantic alliance is its mutual defense clause, the all-for-one principle, in which an attack on any member is considered an attack on them all. But that clause's limitations were first displayed after Sept. 11, 2001, when it was invoked in the immediate aftermath of the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, only to be spurned by a Bush administration set on keeping tight reins on its response.

    U.S. skepticism over the efficacy of the alliance, however, didn't start with President Bush. Clinton administration officials had bitterly complained of the political meddling and command confusion that hampered NATO's 1999 air war to push Serb troops out of Kosovo.

    Now the rebuff is coming from the other side, for equally understandable reasons. Mutual defense of NATO territory is one thing; the call to stand shoulder-to-shoulder in a bedeviled country thousands of miles away from Europe is a more troublesome proposition. It isn't simply a question of resources: Canada is on the front line despite an anemic defense budget. For all the lip-service paid to Afghanistan as a war that cannot be lost, there seems to be a lack of political will to do what is necessary to win it.

    The French are right that military action in the south of Afghanistan isn't making many friends for the West, and they at least have been consistent in counseling against NATO taking on a war-fighting role. But the Taliban isn't going to yield peacefully to the economic aid and civic encouragement aimed at bolstering the embattled government of Hamid Karzai. Security comes first. At Riga the alliance underwrote a still vague plan for a "Contact Group' that would involve neighboring countries and international organizations in the search for a solution for Afghanistan. But Washington's velvet-gloved relationship with Pakistan — and its non-existent relationship with Iran — augurs poorly for that effort. Robust and dangerous military action is a still unavoidable task, and NATO after Riga is in no better shape to manage it fairly than before.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  5. #20
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  6. #21
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    Re: The other war thread

    Commander Wants Afghan Tours Extended

    The top U.S. commander in Afghanistan said Tuesday he wants to extend the combat tours of 1,200 soldiers amid rising violence, and Defense Secretary Robert Gates said he was ``strongly inclined'' to recommend a troop increase to President Bush if commanders believe it is needed.
    The U.S. intelligence officer disclosed for the first time full-year statistics on insurgent attacks in Afghanistan. Suicide attacks in 2006 totaled 139, up from 27 in 2005, and the number of attacks with roadside bombs more than doubled, from 783 in 2005 to 1,677 last year. The number of what the military calls ``direct attacks,'' meaning attacks by insurgents using small arms, grenades and other weapons, surged from 1,558 in 2005 to 4,542 last year.
    Pentagon chief Gates suggests he'll request more U.S. troops in Afghanistan

    Defense Secretary Robert Gates suggested Wednesday he would ask President George W. Bush to send more troops to Afghanistan, an increase that could intensify pressure on a U.S. military already straining to wage the war in Iraq.

    After two days of talks with American, NATO and Afghan officials, Gates said he was impressed with progress toward stabilizing and rebuilding Afghanistan. Yet he also said military commanders want to add U.S. troops to the 24,000-strong American force now there, the highest level of a 5-year-old war.



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  7. #22
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    Re: The other war thread

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0021011-3.html


    October 11, 2002

    Starting with the Tokyo Conference last January, the United States and 60 other countries have pledged $4.5 billion over five years to work on reconstruction projects. America is delivering on our pledge; we're writing our checks. We're currently implementing more than $300 million worth of reconstruction and recovery projects. The nations who have made pledges, the other nations, they need to be good on their pledges. If you say you're going to help the Afghan people, do it. If you've made a pledge, write your check. It's important.

    America and our partners are helping rebuild roads and bridges and waterways and buildings. Last month, the United States and Japan and Saudi Arabia committed $180 million to rebuild the highway connecting Kabul, Kandahar and Herat. It's an important project.


    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    08-06-2006 10:23 AM

    Actually I have been consistent in this forum about the lack of focus and how Afghanistan was a true mission that was not completed. A search of this forum is all that it takes to disprove your Hillary tirade. Where have we moved resources to Iraq away from Afghanistan? Where is bin-ladel, the guy most wanted who would be brought in dead or alive. Why is the Afghan situation still in infrastructure mode? Why are rotations being cancelled?


    While I always appreciate an opinion I do wish you would explain your optimism that we "We will continue to take necessary steps to ensure what you and the rest of the left seem to be wishing happens does not come true."

    It was 3 generals that pointed out the current situation is not good and anarchy or civil war is where those countries teeter in spite of the "necessary steps" that have been taken during the past years.

    Btw, are you calling the generals "of the left" for pointing out the realities of our current situation?
    Bush to pump another $8bn into Afghanistan

    Friday January 26, 2007

    The White House announced a major shift in its strategy towards Afghanistan yesterday that will see more aid and military help for the country after four years in which it has suffered from Washington's overwhelming focus on Iraq.

    Facing failure in Iraq, where violence is worsening, the US is anxious to avoid a similar catastrophe in Afghanistan.

    Billions of dollars are to be pumped into Afghanistan to help build up the army and for reconstruction projects such as roads, water, schools and clinics.

    About 3,200 US troops in Afghanistan from the 3rd Brigade, 10th Mountain Division who were due to return home are to remain for a further 120 days to help Nato counter an expected Taliban spring offensive.

    The White House is to ask Congress next month for $8bn (£4.1bn) in new funds, which is more than half the $14.2bn Washington has spent on Afghanistan since the US-led invasion in 2001.


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  8. #23
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    Re: The other war thread

    Commandos Go After Taliban Leaders

    <SPAN id=content><B>

    Sorry bout that

    http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/afgh.../20070126.aspx

  9. #24
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    Re: The other war thread

    So. In Afganistan...the Shia are our friends...backed by Iran.?
    My eyes are glazing over.

  10. #25
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    Re: The other war thread

    ^^ Screwed up part of the world, eh?

    I have a headache…

  11. #26
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    Re: The other war thread

    ^^Exactly what I got after reading.

    We dont like the Iranians messing in Iraq. OK. I get that.
    But when they mess in Afganistan its ok because we assume they arent as bad as the Taliban.

    I have agita not just the headache.

  12. #27
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    Re: The other war thread

    General calls for more troops

    The British general who has been commanding Nato forces has called for a major reinforcement of the multinational coalition efforts in Afghanistan, saying he has 'always been without the resources [he] would wish for' during his nine months in charge and calling a crucial battle against the Taliban last autumn 'a damned near-run thing'.
    This newspaper has been able to piece together an account of what happened at the critical battle at Panjway, close to Kandahar in the south of Afghanistan, late last year. The battle, in which it is estimated more than a thousand Taliban fighters were killed, is now described by Nato spokesmen as the engagement that established a crucial 'psychological ascendancy'. However, victory only came after five days of fierce fighting during which the Taliban came close to forcing heavily outnumbered Nato forces to give up their attack.

    With troops committed to essential operations around the country, only one company of Canadian soldiers was found to spearhead the assault. Fighting was so fierce that the ammunition reserves for the entire operation were almost exhausted within 24 hours. Successive attempts to cross the crucial Argandhab river and advance into Taliban positions failed, with casualties being inflicted both by enemy ambushes and by a friendly-fire incident involving a coalition jet.

    'We were trying to make up for a lack of people on the ground with air power,' said one Nato official. 'That can only go on for so long. We have a window of opportunity... that we have to exploit and we need more men to do it.'



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  13. #28
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    Re: The other war thread

    Army Redeploys Brigade to Afghanistan

    Wednesday February 14, 2007 9:46 PM

    WASHINGTON (AP) - An Army unit that had been scheduled to go to Iraq is being sent instead to Afghanistan, where fighting has increased and the U.S. troop level is at its highest of the war.

    The 173rd Airborne Brigade, based in Vicenza, Italy, was among several units the Pentagon said in November would go to Iraq as part of the normal rotation of forces. The department said in a statement Wednesday that the brigade of some 3,200 will deploy this spring to Afghanistan instead to relieve a unit overdue to go home.
    The big Afghanistan push comes to shove

    Washington's Afghan surge is a bid to head off a Taliban campaign, backed by al-Qaida, Pakistani and other foreign fighters, that claims to have 4,000 suicide bombers primed to attack - and comes after escalating violence last year. But it also draws on the Iraq experience and a resulting determination not to "lose" Afghanistan too.

    Anthony Cordesman, of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, said Washington had prioritised governance and democracy-building at the expense of development. "The US has grossly under-financed economic aid efforts and left far too much of the country without visible aid activity," he wrote last month.

    "The present central government [of president Hamid Karzai] is at least two or three years away from providing the presence and services Afghans desperately need. In Iraq the failure to honestly assess problems in the field, be realistic about needs [and] create effective long-term aid and force development plans may well have brought defeat. The US and its allies cannot afford to lose two wars. If they do not act now, they will."


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  14. #29
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    Re: The other war thread

    Britain switches tactics to undermine the Taliban

    Britain has launched a "reconciliation" drive to undermine support for the Taliban after Whitehall strategists concluded that a decisive military victory in Afghanistan cannot be won, the Guardian has learned.

    In a significant shift in tactics, senior British officials have stopped talking about winning a war. "We do not use the word 'win'," one said. "We can't kill our way out of this problem."

    The admission came as Des Browne, the defence secretary, announced a larger than expected 1,400 increase in British troops deployed in southern Afghanistan, with extra armour, artillery, and aircraft. It brings the total number there to 7,700, more than there are in Iraq.

    Officials say the new tactics are to identify "Talibs who are sick of fighting" and persuade them to rejoin their tribes and benefit from the human rights laws and state structures being set up in the country. Captured fighters may also be offered alternatives to incarceration, while more deals will be sought with tribal elders.

    They hope increasingly to damage the Taliban without relying on a shooting war, a tactic which has often proved counter-productive in the past, notably when Nato air strikes kill civilians. "We are convinced most people do not support the Taliban and want to take a route through it," said one source. British officials distinguish the Taliban from al-Qaida, describing it as a "more fluid" organisation.


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  15. #30
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    Re: The other war thread

    Cheney unhurt in blast outside Afghan base

    A suicide bomber killed at least 14 people and wounded about a dozen more outside the main U.S. military base in Afghanistan on Tuesday during a visit by Vice President •••• Cheney, officials said.

    The Taliban claimed responsibility and said Cheney was the target.

    Cheney's spokeswoman said he was fine, and the U.S. Embassy said the vice president later met with President Hamid Karzai in Kabul before leaving the country.

    Talking to reporters later, Cheney said he heard "a loud boom" and was informed by Secret Service agents that there had been an explosion.

    He was moved briefly to a bomb shelter, he said, but returned to his room "as the situation settled down."

    "I think [the Taliban] clearly try to find ways to question the authority of the central government," he said. "Striking at the Bagram [base] with a suicide bomber, I suppose, is one way to do that... It shouldn't affect our behavior."

    The blast happened outside the base at Bagram, north of the capital, Kabul.


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