Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 66
  1. #1
    Joined
    May 2003
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,001

    Exclamation Artical about Vista Eula by Koroush Ghazi Owner/Author www.TweakGuides.com

    http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase...sing_reply.asp

    Windows Vista's Enthusiastic Licensing Restrictions

    My name is Koroush Ghazi, and I run the site TweakGuides.com. As you can probably guess by the site's name, I like to tweak and tinker with hardware and software. I'm what you might call a 'PC enthusiast': one of those guys who builds his own PC, regularly upgrading it to keep up with the demands of modern gaming. When Paul asked me to write a reply to his Licensing Changes to Vista article I jumped at the chance, given that this issue really affects guys like me. I know from the emails I've received, and from comments I've read by other enthusiasts across the Net that Vista's explicit limitation on transferring only once to another machine in particular has caused genuine frustration, confusion and anger. I'm here to try to put across the enthusiast's point of view, something which both Paul's original article and Microsoft may have lost sight of.

    Let's be clear about one thing before we go any further: I'm not here to get into an endless legal debate over End User License Agreement (EULA) wording. I have neither the legal training nor the patience. Both Paul and Microsoft have admitted that XP's EULA wording does not state clearly enough the conditions under which it restricts the transfer of Windows XP from one machine to another by the same owner. Given the EULA is a binding legal document, this is an oversight which seems careless in my opinion, and the confusion has only been reinforced over the years. Case in point: I've successfully transferred my copy of Windows XP Professional through 3 completely different new systems over the past 5 years, along with several hardware upgrades, activating it many times along the way, at least one of these by phone. At no point did I ever encounter anything or anyone telling me that what I was doing was wrong, nor was I ever asked to explain my need to reactivate.

    You might say that this only demonstrates how generous Microsoft have been in the past, and that having picked up on the confusion, they have now simply clarified their position on transfer rights in the Vista EULA to avoid future problems. I would argue otherwise. To me and many other people this move has only served to open our eyes to just how draconian the Windows licensing arrangements are - and this is what all the fuss and bother is about.
    The truth about PCs

    At the heart of this issue is the concept that Windows is bound to a particular 'device', and not to a particular human owner. This means that when you buy and install Windows, you're buying it specifically for one fixed PC (device), and should that PC change significantly over time, you no longer have the same device, and thus you eventually forfeit your Windows license given enough changes.

    Let's think about the implications of that for a minute. Twenty years ago when computers were rather standardized pieces of equipment with little variance from one unit to the next, and little scope (or need) for significant modification or upgrading, it may have been valid to refer to them as a discrete device and license software this way. Yet here we are in the 21st Century, at a point in time when the PC hardware market is probably at its most prolific, churning out dozens of brands of a large variety of different components, all of which can be used to create completely unique computers which can in turn be reconfigured many times over during the course of their life. It seems absurd to me to license an OS to a fixed device.

    Paul Thurrott argues that "...fewer than 5 percent of PC users ever open a PC case let alone perform major hardware surgery." I'd be interested in knowing firstly where this statistic comes from, but more importantly, what the trend line looks like - my observations would suggest that if anything the trend for PC users opening their cases and upgrading components is rapidly increasing. But OK, let's stick with the 5 percent figure. A couple of years ago Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft, predicted that the number of Windows PC users across the world would reach over 1 billion by 2010 with other estimates placing it closer to 1.3 Billion. I'm not sure how we're tracking right now, but given these estimates, even at 5 percent that converts to roughly 50-65 million people. So it's not just me and a couple of mates whipping the cover off our PCs, it's actually a fairly large group of people.

    Furthermore, it is this 5 percent of the Windows PC market that plows vast sums of money into the PC hardware industry and drives high-end hardware sales. Most pre-built systems do not come with expensive high-end graphics cards, fancy motherboards, low-latency RAM, fast hard drives or aftermarket coolers for example. These are all usually purchased as upgrades, at significant cost. Entire companies base their business models on catering to aftermarket purchases of standalone components.

    But why should Microsoft pander to these hardware junkies who have more dollars than sense? Why do they upgrade so often anyway, are they nuts? It's a bit more complex than that. Let's look at one common reason for upgrades: gaming. Take for example Microsoft's much-touted new DirectX 10 (DX10) graphics API for Vista. Upcoming games such as Crysis and Microsoft's own Flight Simulator X are going to take advantage of DX10's capabilities to produce enhanced graphics. Yet to utilize DX10, PC owners will need to buy a DirectX 10-capable graphics card. And since these will only be available with a PCI Express interface, that likely means a fair few people will have to upgrade their motherboards as well, which in turn may mean RAM and even CPU upgrades will be needed, if only because of CPU socket and RAM architecture changes.

    So a Vista user who started out with one 'device' prior to the release of DirectX 10 hardware, may well wind up with a new device after necessary upgrades to take advantage of a core feature of Vista. In return they've just used up their one and only Vista license transfer. Heaven forbid they decide to upgrade their system again in the coming years - which is quite likely given the existing pace of upgrades for gaming - they will be faced with either lying about having a 'catastrophic failure', or buying a new Vista license. And at $399 for Vista Ultimate (the likely OS choice for enthusiasts), this isn't just a couple of bucks we're talking about here.
    How did we ever get to this point?

    I am neither pro- nor anti-Microsoft. I'm old enough to realise that Microsoft is a large corporation that invests millions of dollars into software development, producing applications and Operating Systems which have greatly increased productivity around the world. I'm certain that nowhere in their Mission Statement does the phrase "screw over the customer" appear. Yet strangely enough that's exactly what seems to be occurring with Vista right now.

    I don't want to launch into a lengthy product review of Vista, as it is neither a finalized piece of software, nor could I do a better job that Paul's own Sticking with Windows XP in a Windows Vista World article. The bottom line is that at the moment I am quite underwhelmed with what Vista has to offer the end consumer. I'm sure over time its feature set will mature and its advantages become more effectively utilized and streamlined, but to me right now it feels like a dumbed-down, prettier yet more annoying version of Windows XP. To be fair, when Windows XP came out in 2001, it too was accused of being a similar variation on Windows 98, but is now well-liked by most users. So only time will tell on that front.

    The key point however is that Vista is not all we expected it to be. It is well overdue, is going to be more expensive than ever, has increased Digital Rights Management (DRM) and Anti-Piracy measures (read Windows Genuine Advantage Notifications), and as we now know it will have a very restrictive license.

    My training as an Economist tells me that only a company with significant market share, when faced with little competition in said market, can get away with a scenario like this. The games I buy don't have all of these measures or restrictions. The third party applications I buy don't have all these measures or restrictions. Yet apparently I am forced to accept that the one key piece of software my system cannot do without comes with all these added goodies, and at a premium price to boot.

    Microsoft has had aggressive competition on a variety of fronts, and this has resulted in the revamping of key components of their software. For example it was only under the challenge of the Mozilla Firefox browser that Internet Explorer is being transformed into a much better product in its 7th iteration; the popularity of iTunes has automatically resulted in an upgrade of Windows Media Player's feature set; and Windows Live Search bears an uncanny resemblance to Google's famous search portal.
    good artical that

  2. #2
    Joined
    May 2003
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,001

    Re: Artical about Vista Eula by Koroush Ghazi Owner/Author www.TweakGuides.com

    But Linux and Mac OS X have not made large enough inroads into the Windows-dominated world of operating systems. While fine products in their own right, and certainly a source of shall we say 'inspiration' for Windows Vista's new features, they just don't present most PC users with a viable alternative given the investment most people have made in familiarizing themselves with Windows. The truth is we live in a Windows world, and enthusiasts, particularly gamers, are virtually forced to upgrade to Windows Vista if they want to continue using all their favorite games and applications - and indeed their hardware - with a minimum of fuss and bother in coming years.
    Where do we go from here?

    On its own, the restrictive licensing arrangements for Windows are not a deal breaker for me. I'd still happily buy Windows Vista with its current proposed license, if it were not for the many other aspects of this operating system which combine to really sour things. At the moment Vista is looking like a real money pit for PC enthusiasts, and XP is looking more and more attractive to hold onto at least for the coming year. Or to put it another way, piracy of Vista is looking more and more attractive to an even larger group of people now.

    It genuinely surprises me that Microsoft and Paul Thurrott have marginalized PC enthusiasts over this issue. I don't get it. PC enthusiasts have been diligently testing the Windows Vista Beta and Release Candidates for Microsoft absolutely free of charge, providing valuable feedback for example. PC enthusiasts drive key hardware markets, which in turn drives innovation. Yet currently we're being treated like an unwanted step child.

    Why are enthusiasts being ignored? Aside from the fact that we're talking about tens of millions of people being affected, there also seems to be a bit of a contradiction. If Microsoft genuinely believes the clarified restrictions only affect a small group of people, then honestly why change them in the first place? It seems to me it only disenchants an influential group of users, unfairly targeting their legitimate need to upgrade often to keep pace with gaming and other requirements. PCs are no longer a 'box' that you buy, keep for 3 years and never upgrade or tinker with. An increasingly large group of people do upgrade their machines often, and in fact companies like Microsoft, Nvidia, AMD and Intel do everything in their power to encourage it.

    To me there seems to be a relatively easy way out of this dilemma for Microsoft: raise the transfer limit to at least three additional new devices if not more. This will give enthusiasts plenty of headroom in the coming years, it should ensure a reduction in piracy and an increase in sales - particularly for the enthusiast-orientated Vista Ultimate, and will be a sign of good faith on Microsoft's part. And as Microsoft and Paul claim, it should have no impact on the 'vast majority' of users who apparently don't upgrade often.

    --Koroush Ghazi
    Owner/Author
    www.TweakGuides.com
    October 16, 2006
    good read

    sorry had to dbl post to get all of it, stupid charictor limmit, didnt have to dbl post in techpowerup

  3. #3
    Joined
    May 2002
    Location
    Connecticut
    Age
    63
    Posts
    12,900

    Re: Artical about Vista Eula by Koroush Ghazi Owner/Author www.TweakGuides.com

    Quote Originally Posted by PF Prophet View Post
    good read

    sorry had to dbl post to get all of it, stupid charictor limmit, didnt have to dbl post in techpowerup
    Excellent read ,BUT what are we 5% going to do about it? Maybe it's time to let our 5% be heard at the Corporate offices at Microsoft, in the form of E-mails and petitions. It wouldn't be all that hard to turn out an OEM license for DIYs. As you have said, I've yet to be told NO when asked to reactivate a copy of XP. I wonder if the same will be said of Vista?
    http://forums.pcper.com/trading.php TRADING RULEZ!! BIGDADDY51 I've joined the QUAD CROWD! ASUS M3A78 & a 9850

  4. #4
    Joined
    May 2003
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,001

    Re: Artical about Vista Eula by Koroush Ghazi Owner/Author www.TweakGuides.com

    they plan a HARD LIMIT with vista, to many hardware changes/reinstalls and you MUST buy a new copy, this is to prevent people from taking windows with them from upgrade to upgrade, stupid but true ms wants to molest you.

    the 5% you speek of are the most vocal group on the net and in the market, we have the power to creat change, look at what happened when MS desided that Vista wouldnt support opengl except thru a wraper layed over dx9.0L it didnt fly, ms had to give in and give FULL opengl support to vista even under areo you can use Opengl now, b4 it was IMPOSSABLE to get true opengl support because ms didnt want it in vista(cad designers and such NEED it as well as gamers)

    if we slap ms with email after email, artical after artical, not just from us, but from game developers as well, we will see some action, it will likely be desigsed as if they planed it the whole time OR just changed their mind out of the kindness of their harts but it will come.

    if somebody here has the skill and webspace it would be great if we could start compiling a site with links/articals about vista to show the world why we need to avoid it, i would try but 56k=i cant upload sh!t, also a couple of those online potitions would be good, a way to get some more attention for us, and show support for "our cause" as my buddys now calling it(hes posting on german forums from what he says, i dont speek/read dutch so i cant help :P

  5. #5
    Joined
    May 2002
    Location
    Connecticut
    Age
    63
    Posts
    12,900

    Re: Artical about Vista Eula by Koroush Ghazi Owner/Author www.TweakGuides.com

    I have asked about a petition ,I'll let you know what the answer is. Bruce D. AKA Bigdaddy51. I have a website that's idle right now.
    http://forums.pcper.com/trading.php TRADING RULEZ!! BIGDADDY51 I've joined the QUAD CROWD! ASUS M3A78 & a 9850

  6. #6
    Joined
    May 2003
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,001

    Re: Artical about Vista Eula by Koroush Ghazi Owner/Author www.TweakGuides.com



    glad to see support forming, i can help spred the word around the net when/if we can get an online patition going

  7. #7
    Joined
    Feb 2003
    Location
    SE Wisconsin
    Age
    60
    Posts
    376

    Re: Artical about Vista Eula by Koroush Ghazi Owner/Author www.TweakGuides.com

    And what's going to happen when W2K and XP reach their END of LIFE and support which has already been set for some time in 2008? Only 2 yrs away!

    Have also just read a statement by a M$ rep that MB and even Harddrives will be concidered a major change under Vista. So for all us folks that still have 80 and 100gig drives are going to be hosed when we have to replace a drive and it's now 300gigs because that's what is being marketed by the manf. And at the rate that new drives are failing, many after only a yr, what are we supposed to do?
    Biostar P4M900-M7 FE, Inte Core 2 Duo E7400, Win7

  8. #8
    Joined
    May 2002
    Location
    Connecticut
    Age
    63
    Posts
    12,900

    Re: Artical about Vista Eula by Koroush Ghazi Owner/Author www.TweakGuides.com

    Nothing is set in stone yet. I'm thinking that the activation process is going to be very similar to what they have now, and reformats and hardware changes will be decided on a case by case basis.Also I think you will find they changed the wording to "device" to cover pdas cellphones and usb flash drives, and not necessarily hardware. I've already seen XP PRO for as little as $79 online. If you really think that Vista will be as bad as is speculated, buy yourself an OEM copy of XP and load that. Do you REALLY think that MS will want to lose that 1.5 million beta testers ,when the cd keys for Vista beta stops working in June 2007?However. NOW is the time to let MS know just how you feel about the new EULA changes. There's power in numbers, and MS can't just ignore 5% of the pc users out there, that are PC gurus like all of us in the many forums accross the net. www.microsoft.com aint hard to find. Neither are the many forum/feedback pages there.
    http://forums.pcper.com/trading.php TRADING RULEZ!! BIGDADDY51 I've joined the QUAD CROWD! ASUS M3A78 & a 9850

  9. #9
    Joined
    May 2003
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,001

    Re: Artical about Vista Eula by Koroush Ghazi Owner/Author www.TweakGuides.com

    the EULA i posted in the other thred is the finnal one, ms stated as much, it is set in stone as far as their marketing people are concerned.

    as i understand it if you reinstall on the exect same system your probbly ok for 2-3 installs, but if ANTHING changes between installs you may have to use up your one device transfer to re-acctovate, once thats used up if your mobo dies, or hdd dies, well ms dosnt plan to allow you to just call to get the copy unlocked anymore, they plan to offer to sell you a new copy of windows for your new device(computer is being called device here)

    they dont want enthusists like us using the same copy of windows thru many system upgrades, they want a new sale for each "system" we build.

    now most of US see a system as being the same system even if we swap out the board/chip/ram and keep the other parts, or swap out the hdd/videocard/nic/burner's for better ones, but thats now how ms sees it, they see each time you make a "major change" as being a new system.

    its stupid but its im sure writen by people who dont understand the 5% of us that upgrade our system regularly, they dont care to understand us eather, they only care about making as much $ for their company and themselves as possable.

    i just worrie that the 5% of us "guru's" as BD put it will endup being screwed by "big brother" because we change our parts like some rednecks change their underware(every 4-6 months )

    and i dont need xp here, i got 2k and 2k3 so im set.

    could somebody show the EOL dates for each os please.

    ms has stated that XP will be disscontinued 24months after vista is releced on the market.......
    they also put off the xp sp3 till mid 2008, a nice way of saying nobodys ever gonna see an sp3 for xp.
    it will be windows 2000 allover again, ms will say they are gonna support it, then dump us with a pathetic rollup if that......

  10. #10
    Joined
    May 2003
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,001

    Re: Artical about Vista Eula by Koroush Ghazi Owner/Author www.TweakGuides.com

    http://twit.sjc.cachefly.net/WW-003.mp3

    thats a podcast about vista, listen all the way thru, its alot of propaganda and bs but some of the info is intresting, like about xp sp3

  11. #11
    Joined
    May 2002
    Location
    Connecticut
    Age
    63
    Posts
    12,900

    Re: Artical about Vista Eula by Koroush Ghazi Owner/Author www.TweakGuides.com

    Maybe you should read this http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase..._licensing.asp It states in here that Vista will require fewer reactivations than XP did.
    http://forums.pcper.com/trading.php TRADING RULEZ!! BIGDADDY51 I've joined the QUAD CROWD! ASUS M3A78 & a 9850

  12. #12
    Joined
    May 2003
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,001

    Re: Artical about Vista Eula by Koroush Ghazi Owner/Author www.TweakGuides.com

    With Windows Vista, the EULA has been clarified. It now explicitly states that a user may "reassign the [Windows Vista] license to another device one time." This, the pundits say, is a huge restriction that wasn't present in Windows XP. Many people incorrectly believe this to be the case.

    What's more amazing is that the number of people who actually try to do this is incredibly small. Since you can't transfer a copy of Windows that comes with a new PC anyway, less than 10 percent of all Windows licenses are transferable at all. And of those, only a tiny percentage of users have ever tried to even transfer a Windows license once. The only people that really need to do this regularly are hardcore PC enthusiasts who change their machine configurations regularly. In short, this new restriction isn't all that new and it won't affect any mainstream users.
    so us "hardcore pc enthusiasts" get to try and convence ms to let us keep using something we payed to much for(a decent copy of vista is gonna run 399bucks) or buy another copy after one device transfer.

    vista will have to call home when reinstalled if anything changes windows must be reactovated, hell if you change ram ammount/type, nic card,soundcard from the time you installed it first to the next time they can make you use up your activations to beable to keep using it.

    i know what that artical says, and the one posted here was in large a responce to it, listen to the podcast, its of the guy form the site u just linked, its how i found the articals the first time.

    even he has started to comearound to the thinking of the "geeks like us" who dont want to have to buy 300 copys of vista over the years its avalable because we upgrade out "devices" to offten.

    ms needs to change the retail policy on at least the higher end versions like ultimet.
    maby make an ultimet enthusist/gamer edition that dosnt hassle us if we change out parts all the time.

    that or ms could offer us geeks a limmited msdn like licence that dosnt need acctivation just key checkins every so offten.

    i could live with it calling home A. if it didnt send anything but key varrification back and forth, and b. if it dosnt dissable windows/windows fetures if you loose your internet connection for some reasion.

    ms need to hear from real enthusists about why we dont like this current EULA, its for good reasion.

    hell i may endup going with 2 of my buddys and getting MSDN just go avoid the licencing hassles(they are programers and devs, im just a geek )

  13. #13
    Joined
    May 2002
    Location
    Connecticut
    Age
    63
    Posts
    12,900

    Re: Artical about Vista Eula by Koroush Ghazi Owner/Author www.TweakGuides.com

    You also need the rest of the article, There ,it states that Vista is going to be a lot more tolerent of hardware changes than XP was. It also states that "catastrophic failures" will be handled by a live rep on a reactivation call, exactly the same way they did with XP. I really don't think there's to much to worry about at this point, but it would be nice if they did something a little different for DIYs . E-mails ,especially to those Video card Mfgs, that get $500-$1000 a clip for a high end card, might help. If they hear from us, they might just put a little pressure on MS to do something a little different. Same goes with MB mfgs. and The Harddrive people. Don't believe one or 2 articles as golden. There are a lot of rumors flying around at this point, even within Tech-net forums at MS backroom. Maybe an E-mail from each of us to Paul would be noticed.
    http://forums.pcper.com/trading.php TRADING RULEZ!! BIGDADDY51 I've joined the QUAD CROWD! ASUS M3A78 & a 9850

  14. #14
    Joined
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    654

    Re: Artical about Vista Eula by Koroush Ghazi Owner/Author www.TweakGuides.com

    yea 5 percent but when the 95 percent of population has a problem with their pcs and they are too cheap to call or dont have the patience to call a tech up who do they turn to? US! I would say i fix about 3 PCs though RADMIN for my online BF2 clan mates every week then i clean up my friends' computers a few times a year. Any time one of my relatives or friends or even friends of my parents consider buying a new computer they will ask me for an advice on what to get. So i think even though we are only 5 percent, we can incluence at least 90% of population by simply telling them to not buy vista and go for XP. Microsoft should feel that punch. Of cause then there are the other 5% that are dumb as bricks and make the human species look bad. The 5% that will read a manual to figure out how to use a power button to turn a pc on or use a DVD drive as a cup holder or buy those stupid AOL- brand computers in CompUSA . But i'm going to disregard these people and pretend they dont exist.

    So not only that but by trying to be more greedy and make more money they will loose money. Most of the piracy online happen because the software licencing is unfair. Vista will become another photoshop. Photoshop is very cool but costs around $800 ( $200 for upgrade) and yet if you would ask most people on varrious gaming or tech forums if they have photoshop they will say yes. Do you think everyone there paid $800 for photoshop? Adobe would be freaking rich if eveyone did. Now if adobe was more reasonable made made it suit cost $100 with free upgrades for home users ( non commercial, bla bla ) i'm sure they would be much more prosperous in the end. Vista is sure to share the same fate. Be assured that within hours of its release you would find Vista on torrents with a crack.

    Then there is the rest of the world where they have a salary of $100 a month. I've been to russia last year and everyone there uses XP Professional but no one bought it from microsoft. You can pick up a hacked XP in a proffesional looking store ( not some stand in the street ) for about $5, maybe even less. It comes with a CD label of a real disk and even a case that has a semi- professional print out of an XP cover. Its now just XP written with a marker on a CDR. Actually at the same time they were showing movies that just came out in our theater on their public television. Of cause some of them were kinda bad where you would realize that the movie was filmed by someone sitting in the american movie theater with a camera and then horribly translated into russian but the rest of the world really wont give a shit and crack anything that comes to them so in the end this is aimed to only hurt the 5% of enthusiasts in US.

    But hey, right now i have 2 copies of XP installed on 2 of my PCs that i upgrade almost monthly and linux on the 3rd pc and as long as i wont like vista, i'm going to stick with XP and Linux and each time somebody will ask me if they should buy a new computer with vista i'm going to tell them honestly that i dont approve of vista and they will listen to me. I'm sure that most of you have a similar influence in your community and just tell who ever asks you for an advice not to get Vista.
    Last edited by Kul; 10-25-2006 at 01:14 PM.

  15. #15
    Joined
    Jul 2001
    Location
    UK
    Age
    46
    Posts
    20,230

    Re: Artical about Vista Eula by Koroush Ghazi Owner/Author www.TweakGuides.com

    Quote Originally Posted by BIGDADDY51 View Post
    Nothing is set in stone yet. I'm thinking that the activation process is going to be very similar to what they have now, and reformats and hardware changes will be decided on a case by case basis.Also I think you will find they changed the wording to "device" to cover pdas cellphones and usb flash drives, and not necessarily hardware. I've already seen XP PRO for as little as $79 online. If you really think that Vista will be as bad as is speculated, buy yourself an OEM copy of XP and load that. Do you REALLY think that MS will want to lose that 1.5 million beta testers ,when the cd keys for Vista beta stops working in June 2007?However. NOW is the time to let MS know just how you feel about the new EULA changes. There's power in numbers, and MS can't just ignore 5% of the pc users out there, that are PC gurus like all of us in the many forums accross the net. www.microsoft.com aint hard to find. Neither are the many forum/feedback pages there.
    I agree with BD51 here. I suspect very little will change in reality. Microsoft isn't going to trash your investment in their OS just because your HD or MB failed. I suspect a simple phone call will get you reactivated, but only time will tell. Personally though, I don't think MS give two hoots about the lot of you - it's the corporate markets with open and volume licencing agreements where they make their bucks, and these customers don't have to put up with all the activation crap!

    But I tell you right now, if my OS supplier treated me like that, I'd drop them in a flash and look for an alternative *cough*

    ~ Want to try Linux - check out the PC Perspective Linux FAQ ~
    ~ Please take some time to read the Forum Rules ~
    ~ Feed the spamb0tz, don't mail me here: B7Trz4568254@nirvana.admins.ws ~


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •