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  1. #16
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    Re: Enermax Enlobal 120mm fan check it out!

    Quote Originally Posted by SuBX3r0 View Post
    now i'm all about quiet.
    That's why I finally went to watercooling and moving the farm out in the garage! i can actually hear my hard drive spinning now!
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  2. #17
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    Re: Enermax Enlobal 120mm fan check it out!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGlasMan View Post

    By the way, i think they over estimate the cfm, or the dB, or both.
    ThernalTake has been doing that for years n everything they sell. It's the reason I refuse to purchase or use any of their products. They just keep LIEING about their products.

    Mr. Novi
    R.I.P Brad (BWM). You will be missed.

  3. #18
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    Re: Enermax Enlobal 120mm fan check it out!

    Quote Originally Posted by MrNovi View Post
    ThernalTake has been doing that for years n everything they sell. It's the reason I refuse to purchase or use any of their products. They just keep LIEING about their products.

    Mr. Novi
    definatey do, but their silent cats are good fans, use one on my xp90, more air than a panaflo m1 but with less noise. not the db they advertise for sure, but less noise.
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  4. #19
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    Re: Enermax Enlobal 120mm fan check it out!

    Leave it to Enermax to advertise a low-end fan as something special.

    The PCToys items are particularly deceptive:

    "Auto Restart function to prevent system damage"

    Nonsense, any modern fan does this.

    "Patent speed regulator provides you the optimal balance between heat-dissipation and noise control"

    More nonsense, the greater the level of regulation, the less flexible the fan is to run at different RPMs. Regardless, it has no feature that yields a gain for this purpose.

    "Rotation without oil and simple structure for easy assembly"

    Translation- the cheapest way to make it, with no benefit in use, operation.

    "High mechanical precision for running smoothly"

    If they are implying it's higher precision than other good name-brand fans, it's a deception onto the point of lying. If they are implying it's a higher level of precision than a hand wood carving or a blob of mud on your shoe, sure, but it pretty much has to be just to keep from falling apart from vibration within a week.

    "Specific plastic material for anti-rusty "

    LOL. I suppose we should be thankful it doesn't use that other, non-specific type of plastic that rusts?

    Enermax is lying through their teeth when they claim things like friction-free. Frankly I think they should be sued over this marketing.

    Don't be fooled by the optimistic specs on noise and flow rate either, a Panaflo 120x38mm will have higher flow:noise ratio in most uses. Trust major fan manufacturer specs, not low-end relabeler specs. There is no ultra-cheap new way to make a fan magically longer lasting and quieter while moving same amount of air in same size fan.

    The answer is as always, to use a quality part and a technically correct way to throttle it, which is current limiting, not PWM or voltage reduction. The latter two will work to a certain extent but show their limitations sooner if you're trying for lowest noise.

  5. #20
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    Re: Enermax Enlobal 120mm fan check it out!

    i don't think you're giving them enough credit, i have the fan and i can't say i've seen one like it before.

    the blades are removable and that right there sets it apart from any other fan i've seen.

    it performs decently too, quiteter and smaller than the panaflo i have (m1 btw) and the panaflo doesn't have rpm sensing.

    until you've actually used it and have actually tested it scientifically you might want to hold off on comments based on what appears to me to be soley oppinion only.

    any manufacturer is going to use mumbo jumbo to hype their product, doesn't mean it sucks, it's all business.

    i haven't been impressed with either of the panaflo fans i've bought, the 90mm silent cat from thermaltake is quieter and puts out more air, and the 120mm m1 i have is too wide for me to even mount and i have 25mm fans that feel to me like they put out just as much airflow.

    also i didn't get the fan for it's built in speed control, i keep ity set to full and have it automatically variated through the bios and speed fan. not sure which method they use but it works for me.
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  6. #21
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    Re: Enermax Enlobal 120mm fan check it out!

    I can take the C-clip off any fan and it'll still work. Is it a wonderous thing to save even another fraction of a cent by omitting it?

    It has lower flow:noise ratio to the thicker Panaflo. If you prefer lower noise, any fan can be throttled down to attain it. If this fan randomly happened to have the exact flow:noise ratio you wanted, it might be a subjectively good choice if only considering that factor, but it isn't reasonable to assume others will want that exact flow:noise ratio.

    It does not appear to be my opinion, it's directly addressing the claims made.

    Any manufacturer does NOT use these nonsense marketing terms. Show us where Panasonic makes silly claims about plastic not rusting, or sellers quoting standard fan features as if they're unusual.

    Thermaltake fan are junk. If a 38mm fan is too wide, that is not something forcing you to pick one particular 25mm thick fan, there are plenty of them out there.

    If you're happy with this fan, great, but that doesn't objectively make it any better than it really is.

  7. #22
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    Re: Enermax Enlobal 120mm fan check it out!

    Quote Originally Posted by mindless1 View Post
    I can take the C-clip off any fan and it'll still work. Is it a wonderous thing to save even another fraction of a cent by omitting it?

    It has lower flow:noise ratio to the thicker Panaflo. If you prefer lower noise, any fan can be throttled down to attain it. If this fan randomly happened to have the exact flow:noise ratio you wanted, it might be a subjectively good choice if only considering that factor, but it isn't reasonable to assume others will want that exact flow:noise ratio.

    It does not appear to be my opinion, it's directly addressing the claims made.

    Any manufacturer does NOT use these nonsense marketing terms. Show us where Panasonic makes silly claims about plastic not rusting, or sellers quoting standard fan features as if they're unusual.

    Thermaltake fan are junk. If a 38mm fan is too wide, that is not something forcing you to pick one particular 25mm thick fan, there are plenty of them out there.

    If you're happy with this fan, great, but that doesn't objectively make it any better than it really is.
    are you some sort of fan scientist or something? you can have different air flow rates depending on the number of fan blades, their shape, angle, all sorts of factors can change that, not just the rpm's

    and you seem very biased, hardcore for panasonic, who really just sells their fans to oem's from what i can tell, while enermax and thermaltake sell them as retail products.

    the silent cat is a great fan reguardless of how you feel about thermaltake, it out performs the 92mm panaflo i have and is quieter, and since you're so hardcore for panaflos it's obviously a great fan if it beats the almighty panaflo.

    i don't see why you think all fans are exactly the same other than how fast they spin, if that were truely the case i think someone else besides yourself would have figured it out by now.

    suggesting you can get the same performance from any fan just by varying it's speed is ludacris at best. some fan designs just make more noise at a certain speed than others, also producing different amounts of airflow.

    and when i say the blades are removable i mean when you take them off you can also put them back on.
    Last edited by Brandito; 11-20-2006 at 10:00 PM.
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  8. #23
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    Re: Enermax Enlobal 120mm fan check it out!

    Quote Originally Posted by SuBX3r0 View Post
    are you some sort of fan scientist or something? you can have different air flow rates depending on the number of fan blades, their shape, angle, all sorts of factors can change that, not just the rpm's
    Generally speaking, no that's untrue though it might seem true initially. It's untrue because fan tech is quite mature now, fan manufacturers long ago worked out what little differences there were and when to go with fewer blades (for highest RPM) or more (for thinnest). In general, there is no practical difference in flow rate between two similar enough looking fans at same RPM. They have developed fans for decades and do achieve optimal flow and minimal noise. To suggest Enermax, a company that doesn't even MAKE fans has something better, is just too funny. What it is, is a fairly cheap fan and a load of BS marketing. That's how relabelers make their buck, they have to buy cheaper fans to add the middleman markup, else the retail price isn't competitive anymore.

    I was a distributor for awhile though and have sold fans by the case in many brands, still have them scattered around my basement.

    and you seem very biased, hardcore for panasonic, who really just sells their fans to oem's from what i can tell, while enermax and thermaltake sell them as retail products.
    Enermax and Thermaltake don't make fans. They are only PC parts relabelers. Panaflo certainly does make good fans, but there are many decent brands like Sunon, Delta, Papst, Comair, Nidec, NMB... it really depends on the particular use which to choose but they all beat Enermax and Thermaltake hands-down.

    As for selling at retail, the aforementioned brands sell at retail. Have you ever looked for a Panflo? They're certainly not only selling to OEMs, though Delta does sell most of their (non-fan) PC/Computer products like PSU, optical drives, brick switching supplies only to OEMs.

    the silent cat is a great fan reguardless of how you feel about thermaltake, it out performs the 92mm panaflo i have and is quieter, and since you're so hardcore for panaflos it's obviously a great fan if it beats the almighty panaflo.
    Define beat. You mean on paper, it doesn't have a lower flow:noise ratio, and it has a shorter lifespan.

    i don't see why you think all fans are exactly the same other than how fast they spin, if that were truely the case i think someone else besides yourself would have figured it out by now.
    Never claimed all fans are exactly the same, show me where I wrote it. I suspect you are not very knowledgeable about fans and now clinging to marketing blurbs.

    suggesting you can get the same performance from any fan just by varying it's speed is ludacris at best.
    To put it politely, you're ignorant. It's not an insult really, you may know a lot more than the average installer, that I won't judge, but I both know and have used fans towards the end of achieving the performance you allude to, and having it done with higher quality fans means they run for years longer. The vast majority of fans sold for or used in PCs can easily achieve similar levels of performance, but let's not use nonsense terms like performance, let's use the specific attributes like noise, lifespan, flow rate, static pressure.

    Ball bearing fans are louder though, particularly at higher RPMs but a good quality ball bearing fan is still called for in non-vertical orientations or when the intake air is heated. At low RPM, perhaps under 2200, the noise difference is too slight to consider for most uses unless it's a low quality fan which, all else being equal, I'd assume not a good choice regardless of the noise issue.

    some fan designs just make more noise at a certain speed than others, also producing different amounts of airflow.
    Trivial difference, not enough to discriminate by a human except the higher pitched noise of ball bearings. You might be mixing apples and oranges though, if you take two fans with the same default (at 12V) RPM rating but with different motor torque and/or static pressure and put them both into use in a chasssis, on a heatsink, wherever, then the resultant RPM may be different between the two, as is the flow rate even if they had same free air flow rating.

    Even then, given similar enough fan designs if the RPM stays the same the flow rate won't be significantly different, and none of this would in any way indicate your chosen fan is the tiniest bit better. Remember, I'm not pimping Panaflo, there are a half dozen brands that easily beat that linked fan at the same cost, let alone higher cost.

    There is one notible exception though, that each particular fan design (and default speed, chosen by the resistor biasing on the fan PCB) will have a threshold of minimal RPM, below which the motor torque starts producing a noticable pulsating noise. This is combatted by current limiting, because the current peaks at each 1/4 rotation are what causes the sudden torque increases. To understand this better, look at the fan power rail modulations on a 'scope. Because of these current peaks, PWM and especially voltage reduction will have higher RPM thresholds just prior to the pulsating.

    and when i say the blades are removable i mean when you take them off you can also put them back on.
    Woohoo? I hope you don't take it off except in a cleanroom, a bearing can't work as well if you let dust in. Even so, if you take the C-climp or friction fit washer off any fan you can do the same, pull it off and put it back on. It's a bit curious that this seems like a special feature to be able to remove it, as the other manufacturers could've left the clip off just as easily but knew to leave it in the design.
    Last edited by mindless1; 11-21-2006 at 12:59 AM.

  9. #24
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    Re: Enermax Enlobal 120mm fan check it out!

    Quote Originally Posted by mindless1 View Post
    Woohoo? I hope you don't take it off except in a cleanroom, a bearing can't work as well if you let dust in. Even so, if you take the C-climp or friction fit washer off any fan you can do the same, pull it off and put it back on. It's a bit curious that this seems like a special feature to be able to remove it, as the other manufacturers could've left the clip off just as easily but knew to leave it in the design.

    did you even look at the fan in question? what bearing are you talking about? are you familiar with mag-lev trains? similar thing happening in this fan. the fanblade/hub doesnt touch the shaft. zero friction. zero bearing noise. i think its pretty cool myself.

  10. #25
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    Re: Enermax Enlobal 120mm fan check it out!

    Quote Originally Posted by cwolv View Post
    did you even look at the fan in question? what bearing are you talking about? are you familiar with mag-lev trains? similar thing happening in this fan. the fanblade/hub doesnt touch the shaft. zero friction. zero bearing noise. i think its pretty cool myself.
    I agree that this portion of the fan is unique, but there is no evidence this significantly reduces noise as a supposed-quiet, lower RPM sleeve-bearing fan does not have audible bearing noise.

    This fan may be a novelty but the concept is greater than the actuality of implementing quiet fans, it was already quite obtainable. Turbulent noise increases with blade velocity, so this 25mm thick fan is at a disadvantage. If a case can only accept 25mm fans, or someone is trying for ultra-low RPM and can accept such a low flow rate, that isn't such a concession to make.

  11. #26
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    Re: Enermax Enlobal 120mm fan check it out!

    Quote Originally Posted by cwolv View Post
    did you even look at the fan in question? what bearing are you talking about? are you familiar with mag-lev trains? similar thing happening in this fan. the fanblade/hub doesnt touch the shaft. zero friction. zero bearing noise. i think its pretty cool myself.
    obviously he still hasn't even with his vast amounts of knowledge on fans.

    the reason i can't use a thicker fan is because an ultra 120, a hr-05 sli and an hr-03 all in one case makes for a whole lot of aluminum and heatpipes and not a lot of room to spare.

    very quiet and very cool though.
    Last edited by Brandito; 11-21-2006 at 08:11 PM.
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  12. #27
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    Re: Enermax Enlobal 120mm fan check it out!

    Yes I saw the picture of the bearing with the magnet in the bottom. Did you see the picture of the fan itself and understand what they meant when they wrote "no friction"?

    No friction and floating does not actually mean there is no friction, or that it's floating. They conveniently leave out the critical detail that they only mean in one area, an area that didn't matter much with any decent fan design.

    What it means, is that there is no thrust washer, that the thrust washer friction is gone. There is still bearing friction from their "Nano-technology composite", bearing.

    Look at the picture of the fan open, and think about the magnetic forces involved if you don't understand this. There still has to be a shaft stabilization near the top of the shaft, else when the motor energizes, it does not spin the fan, it would pull the magnet against the motor. That top stabilization is the bearing. They conveniently left it out of their little diagram, playing on lack of information (AKA consumer ignorance) to imply the fan is more special than it really is.
    Last edited by mindless1; 11-21-2006 at 09:08 PM.

  13. #28
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    Re: Enermax Enlobal 120mm fan check it out!

    point is you still haven't given credit for the fact that the blades are removeable, without causing problems either.
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    The member formerly known as SuBX3r0 HEAT

  14. #29
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    Re: Enermax Enlobal 120mm fan check it out!

    thx for that tip, kinda cool that they sleeve all their stuff, keep us updated about the noise levels, in the market for several 120 fans very soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by SuBX3r0 View Post
    i like performance pc;'s for a lot of things, they sleeve all your wireing free so that's why i like em. bought a couple scyth model 120's from them and a panaflo m1, and got the enermnax from pctoys. gonna be testing them on a ultra 120 whenever i buy that. wanna see which will perform best at a reasonable noise level.

  15. #30
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    Re: Enermax Enlobal 120mm fan check it out!

    Quote Originally Posted by RJ_Hythloday View Post
    thx for that tip, kinda cool that they sleeve all their stuff, keep us updated about the noise levels, in the market for several 120 fans very soon.
    got the enermax on there right now, doing good, not the quietest i bought but has some of the hiest performance without being overly loud when it does need to spin up to max, which is generally when i game so it's no big deal.

    btw performance pc's flubbed up today, sent me a package next day air that i had already recieved a week ago. guy called me today at work and left me a voice mail tlling me what happened and that i should tell ups to keep the package if i was ome. but i wasn't and now i have the package, not sure what thyey wanna do now, either let me keep it or pay for the return shipping, i'd assume i'd get some discount on a future purchase or something for the inconvenience but who knows.
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    The member formerly known as SuBX3r0 HEAT

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