Iran: It's getting serious (merged)

[mostholycerebus]

Well, we wanted them to have "our style" of democracy, looks like they got it!!!

Nah. I've been all over this country, and this sort of thing as a regular occurance is usually restricted to Illinois, and in some cases New York. Sounds like mayor Daley is working for Iran on the side as a political advisor...

[Orangutan]

Were both too smart Orang to waste time with a semantic battle. How would you deal with this guy....since he doesnt seem to represent Iranian thought?

Isolate him and demonstrate his accusations incorrect. "Be the bigger person", if you will. If you act in a manner contrary to his assertions, his words lose weight. When people stop believing his words, his power evaporates.

[[LYL]Homer]

The Iranian president is mouthing off because he can, and he knows that he US won't do a thing about it. Makes him look good to his people, it's politics.

He sees how the insurgency is going in Iraq and knows that we know that if we had some illusions of going in to Iran next that we'd find ourselves in a worse insurgency. Plus if we used Iraq as a staging ground for an invasion of Iran then the insurgency in Iraq would explode and feel even more justified in thier bombings.

So, no, we won't to anything about this.

[jimzinsocal]

Related article. Why does this guy sound like the British equivilent of Bill Clinton? Ive never understood guys that bash their own countries first. Maybe they are more interested in being "popular"

http://www.iribnews.ir/Full_en.asp?news_id=203731&n=33

[smoked trout]

bump

U.N. nuclear seals removed in Iran

[Enmore]

Related article. Why does this guy sound like the British equivilent of Bill Clinton? Ive never understood guys that bash their own countries first. Maybe they are more interested in being "popular"

http://www.iribnews.ir/Full_en.asp?news_id=203731&n=33

George Galloway is currently in Celebrity Big Brother over here. Other inmates include Dennis Rodman, some bint off Baywatch, a guy called Maggot and various other non-entities.

He's up for eviction. I might vote him off myself.

http://www.channel4.com/bigbrother/n...ry.jsp?id=1180

[RatboyX]

Okay how many of you actually know any Iranian people in real life? How many of you have worked with them and gotten their opinion of what’s going on? I’m sure some of you may have I definitely have.

Based on the contact I have had with Iranians and what they tell me the general population believes I’m confident that Scooter has it right. Most of the population would love to see a more open and democratic Iran. They are still very influenced by their religious beliefs, which often conflicts with the “Western” idea of a democratic society especially in regards to women and women’s rights. However given a chance I believe that their stance on many issues would soften.

Remember that prior to the deposing of the Shaw, Iran was one of the more progressive countries in the region. I believe there is a desire in most of the population to return to those progressive ways but it must be on their own terms. They are also a very proud and nationalistic people not unlike most Americans. If they feel their country is threatened they will put aside their differences and fight.

I place the current problems squarely at the feet of poor leadership in Iran. A situation that, I’m sad to say, is not unheard of in the west either. Remember also that a lot of the media in Iran will push only the government’s view of a situation. Another astounding similarity to America? And while other sources of information are available to the people there, it’s human nature to start believing something if you hear it enough times.

There are lots of reasons why I don’t believe that we will be sending troops into Iran but the overriding one is time. I’m sure that Bush would LOVE to invade Iran but he’s simply running out of time in his presidency. The administration simply underestimated the amount of time they would have troops in Iraq, not that it would have stopped them. So Iran and a few other countries where Bush would have liked to invade will slip from his fingers.

Now before you label me as a “Pacifist”, or a “left wing” don’t bother. I’ve long said that I supported sending troops into a foreign country if it was warranted. I thought Bush did the right thing going into Afghanistan, however I believe he was wrong to go into Iraq.

Will the war in Iraq end up to have been an overall positive? Perhaps, but I believe it was unnecessary at the time, or perhaps done at the wrong time is a better way to put it. It was rushed and blundered, perhaps because the administration saw a narrow window of opportunity where they could lead the congress and the American people where they wanted them to be.

What is clear is that Bush destroyed any and all good will that was focused on America after the attack on 9-11 with the way he handled Iraq. I contend that Bush had it in his power to be a great leader but he just doesn’t have what it takes.

Edit: Sorry for straying off topic there at the last, but most of it was on topic.

[BlackDragon24]

Okay how many of you actually know any Iranian people in real life? How many of you have worked with them and gotten their opinion of what’s going on? I’m sure some of you may have I definitely have.

Based on the contact I have had with Iranians and what they tell me the general population believes I’m confident that Scooter has it right. Most of the population would love to see a more open and democratic Iran. They are still very influenced by their religious beliefs, which often conflicts with the “Western” idea of a democratic society especially in regards to women and women’s rights. However given a chance I believe that their stance on many issues would soften.

Remember that prior to the deposing of the Shaw, Iran was one of the more progressive countries in the region. I believe there is a desire in most of the population to return to those progressive ways but it must be on their own terms. They are also a very proud and nationalistic people not unlike most Americans. If they feel their country is threatened they will put aside their differences and fight.

I place the current problems squarely at the feet of poor leadership in Iran. A situation that, I’m sad to say, is not unheard of in the west either. Remember also that a lot of the media in Iran will push only the government’s view of a situation. Another astounding similarity to America? And while other sources of information are available to the people there, it’s human nature to start believing something if you hear it enough times.

There are lots of reasons why I don’t believe that we will be sending troops into Iran but the overriding one is time. I’m sure that Bush would LOVE to invade Iran but he’s simply running out of time in his presidency. The administration simply underestimated the amount of time they would have troops in Iraq, not that it would have stopped them. So Iran and a few other countries where Bush would have liked to invade will slip from his fingers.

Now before you label me as a “Pacifist”, or a “left wing” don’t bother. I’ve long said that I supported sending troops into a foreign country if it was warranted. I thought Bush did the right thing going into Afghanistan, however I believe he was wrong to go into Iraq.

Will the war in Iraq end up to have been an overall positive? Perhaps, but I believe it was unnecessary at the time, or perhaps done at the wrong time is a better way to put it. It was rushed and blundered, perhaps because the administration saw a narrow window of opportunity where they could lead the congress and the American people where they wanted them to be.

What is clear is that Bush destroyed any and all good will that was focused on America after the attack on 9-11 with the way he handled Iraq. I contend that Bush had it in his power to be a great leader but he just doesn’t have what it takes.

Edit: Sorry for straying off topic there at the last, but most of it was on topic.

A very well thought out, strikingly accurate post.....wish there were more like ya in TLR

[cyberguy]

A very well thought out, strikingly accurate post.....wish there were more like ya in TLR

I agree totally - Excellent post RatBoyX Well done!

[h_a_]

There are lots of reasons why I don’t believe that we will be sending troops into Iran but the overriding one is time. I’m sure that Bush would LOVE to invade Iran but he’s simply running out of time in his presidency. The administration simply underestimated the amount of time they would have troops in Iraq, not that it would have stopped them. So Iran and a few other countries where Bush would have liked to invade will slip from his fingers.

You are forgetting a certain small nation state in the region with a hella-lotta weapons that is likely to become more and more nervous the closer Iran gets to going nuclear and whose nerves aren't exactly soothed by the offensive rubbish that the new Iranian PM spouts out at every opportunity.

[RatboyX]

You are forgetting a certain small nation state in the region with a hella-lotta weapons that is likely to become more and more nervous the closer Iran gets to going nuclear and whose nerves aren't exactly soothed by the offensive rubbish that the new Iranian PM spouts out at every opportunity.

Nope I haven’t forgotten Israel. They may try and play a trump card to get us into Iran and there is a good possibility of it. It all depends on what happens after the Sharon situation gets cleared up. Also a timing issue there with Israel in the middle of trying to work out something with the Palestinians.

I do have to say that they have an even bigger stake in Iran than we do.

[Trekari]

I forsee military action in the near future if Iran continues down this road.

Why? Because sanctions won't work. There's no possible way the world economy would handle an embargo against Iran if it included their oil as well. Without including their oil in the embargo, it would have little impact.

That being said, the 'free world' if you will, will not tolerate the idea of Iran having nuclear weapons. If Iran is determined to pursue that course of action, frankly speaking: They'll get their ass handed to them.

The US as a country knows exactly where the reactors are and the research being done. We have the technology to strike them without being detected on radar, and Iran certainly is not in a position to counter us. If an 'all-out' war is not deemed a viable option, a tactical strike to cripple their 'research' certainly would be considered.

The crux of the UN problem, once again, is that Russia has a huge financial interest in Iran and would likely look towards their own outcome rather than world security when negotiating any possible UN resolutions against Iran.

But again I assure you: Iran will NOT be permitted to create a nuclear weapon.

[/\/\adGamer]

I forsee military action in the near future if Iran continues down this road.

Why? Because sanctions won't work. There's no possible way the world economy would handle an embargo against Iran if it included their oil as well. Without including their oil in the embargo, it would have little impact.

That being said, the 'free world' if you will, will not tolerate the idea of Iran having nuclear weapons. If Iran is determined to pursue that course of action, frankly speaking: They'll get their ass handed to them.

The US as a country knows exactly where the reactors are and the research being done. We have the technology to strike them without being detected on radar, and Iran certainly is not in a position to counter us. If an 'all-out' war is not deemed a viable option, a tactical strike to cripple their 'research' certainly would be considered.

The crux of the UN problem, once again, is that Russia has a huge financial interest in Iran and would likely look towards their own outcome rather than world security when negotiating any possible UN resolutions against Iran.

But again I assure you: Iran will NOT be permitted to create a nuclear weapon.

omg I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH YOU

[Enmore]

If they do attack Iran it won't be a full scale invasion. It will probably be a strike similar to the Israeli attack on Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor back in 1981. That put Saddam out of the game for 10 years+. Not many people know this, but about 6 months earlier, two Iranian Phantom jets bombed the same facility and caused minor damage.

These large scale facilities aren't easy to totally destroy though. In 1991 the USAF attacked the Osirak complex several times with numerous aircraft before they'd damaged it enough to their satisfaction.

[jimzinsocal]

Update:

http://www.nysun.com/article/25796