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  1. #31
    Joined
    Feb 2002
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    Plainfield, IL
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    5,177

    Re: Iran Its Getting Serious

    Quote Originally Posted by Soundforbjt
    Well, we wanted them to have "our style" of democracy, looks like they got it!!!
    Nah. I've been all over this country, and this sort of thing as a regular occurance is usually restricted to Illinois, and in some cases New York. Sounds like mayor Daley is working for Iran on the side as a political advisor...

  2. #32
    Joined
    Oct 2003
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    8,887

    Re: Iran Its Getting Serious

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal

    Were both too smart Orang to waste time with a semantic battle. How would you deal with this guy....since he doesnt seem to represent Iranian thought?
    Isolate him and demonstrate his accusations incorrect. "Be the bigger person", if you will. If you act in a manner contrary to his assertions, his words lose weight. When people stop believing his words, his power evaporates.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  3. #33
    Joined
    May 2001
    Location
    Seattle
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    46
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    522

    Re: Iran Its Getting Serious

    The Iranian president is mouthing off because he can, and he knows that he US won't do a thing about it. Makes him look good to his people, it's politics.

    He sees how the insurgency is going in Iraq and knows that we know that if we had some illusions of going in to Iran next that we'd find ourselves in a worse insurgency. Plus if we used Iraq as a staging ground for an invasion of Iran then the insurgency in Iraq would explode and feel even more justified in thier bombings.

    So, no, we won't to anything about this.

  4. #34
    Joined
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    74,684

    Re: Iran Its Getting Serious

    Related article. Why does this guy sound like the British equivilent of Bill Clinton? Ive never understood guys that bash their own countries first. Maybe they are more interested in being "popular"

    http://www.iribnews.ir/Full_en.asp?news_id=203731&n=33

  5. #35
    Joined
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    Montana
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    7,744

    Re: Iran Its Getting Serious

    Tyan S5397 2x X5450 16GB - SuperMicro H8DCI 2x 275 8GB - Iwill DK8X 2x Opteron 250 2GB


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  6. #36
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    Re: Iran Its Getting Serious

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal
    Related article. Why does this guy sound like the British equivilent of Bill Clinton? Ive never understood guys that bash their own countries first. Maybe they are more interested in being "popular"

    http://www.iribnews.ir/Full_en.asp?news_id=203731&n=33
    George Galloway is currently in Celebrity Big Brother over here. Other inmates include Dennis Rodman, some bint off Baywatch, a guy called Maggot and various other non-entities.

    He's up for eviction. I might vote him off myself.

    http://www.channel4.com/bigbrother/n...ry.jsp?id=1180

  7. #37
    Joined
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    Re: Iran Its Getting Serious

    Okay how many of you actually know any Iranian people in real life? How many of you have worked with them and gotten their opinion of whatís going on? Iím sure some of you may have I definitely have.

    Based on the contact I have had with Iranians and what they tell me the general population believes Iím confident that Scooter has it right. Most of the population would love to see a more open and democratic Iran. They are still very influenced by their religious beliefs, which often conflicts with the ďWesternĒ idea of a democratic society especially in regards to women and womenís rights. However given a chance I believe that their stance on many issues would soften.

    Remember that prior to the deposing of the Shaw, Iran was one of the more progressive countries in the region. I believe there is a desire in most of the population to return to those progressive ways but it must be on their own terms. They are also a very proud and nationalistic people not unlike most Americans. If they feel their country is threatened they will put aside their differences and fight.

    I place the current problems squarely at the feet of poor leadership in Iran. A situation that, Iím sad to say, is not unheard of in the west either. Remember also that a lot of the media in Iran will push only the governmentís view of a situation. Another astounding similarity to America? And while other sources of information are available to the people there, itís human nature to start believing something if you hear it enough times.

    There are lots of reasons why I donít believe that we will be sending troops into Iran but the overriding one is time. Iím sure that Bush would LOVE to invade Iran but heís simply running out of time in his presidency. The administration simply underestimated the amount of time they would have troops in Iraq, not that it would have stopped them. So Iran and a few other countries where Bush would have liked to invade will slip from his fingers.

    Now before you label me as a ďPacifistĒ, or a ďleft wingĒ donít bother. Iíve long said that I supported sending troops into a foreign country if it was warranted. I thought Bush did the right thing going into Afghanistan, however I believe he was wrong to go into Iraq.

    Will the war in Iraq end up to have been an overall positive? Perhaps, but I believe it was unnecessary at the time, or perhaps done at the wrong time is a better way to put it. It was rushed and blundered, perhaps because the administration saw a narrow window of opportunity where they could lead the congress and the American people where they wanted them to be.

    What is clear is that Bush destroyed any and all good will that was focused on America after the attack on 9-11 with the way he handled Iraq. I contend that Bush had it in his power to be a great leader but he just doesnít have what it takes.

    Edit: Sorry for straying off topic there at the last, but most of it was on topic.
    Last edited by RatboyX; 01-10-2006 at 12:08 PM.
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  8. #38
    Joined
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Oregon
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    38
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    6,499

    Re: Iran Its Getting Serious

    Quote Originally Posted by RatboyX
    Okay how many of you actually know any Iranian people in real life? How many of you have worked with them and gotten their opinion of whatís going on? Iím sure some of you may have I definitely have.

    Based on the contact I have had with Iranians and what they tell me the general population believes Iím confident that Scooter has it right. Most of the population would love to see a more open and democratic Iran. They are still very influenced by their religious beliefs, which often conflicts with the ďWesternĒ idea of a democratic society especially in regards to women and womenís rights. However given a chance I believe that their stance on many issues would soften.

    Remember that prior to the deposing of the Shaw, Iran was one of the more progressive countries in the region. I believe there is a desire in most of the population to return to those progressive ways but it must be on their own terms. They are also a very proud and nationalistic people not unlike most Americans. If they feel their country is threatened they will put aside their differences and fight.

    I place the current problems squarely at the feet of poor leadership in Iran. A situation that, Iím sad to say, is not unheard of in the west either. Remember also that a lot of the media in Iran will push only the governmentís view of a situation. Another astounding similarity to America? And while other sources of information are available to the people there, itís human nature to start believing something if you hear it enough times.

    There are lots of reasons why I donít believe that we will be sending troops into Iran but the overriding one is time. Iím sure that Bush would LOVE to invade Iran but heís simply running out of time in his presidency. The administration simply underestimated the amount of time they would have troops in Iraq, not that it would have stopped them. So Iran and a few other countries where Bush would have liked to invade will slip from his fingers.

    Now before you label me as a ďPacifistĒ, or a ďleft wingĒ donít bother. Iíve long said that I supported sending troops into a foreign country if it was warranted. I thought Bush did the right thing going into Afghanistan, however I believe he was wrong to go into Iraq.

    Will the war in Iraq end up to have been an overall positive? Perhaps, but I believe it was unnecessary at the time, or perhaps done at the wrong time is a better way to put it. It was rushed and blundered, perhaps because the administration saw a narrow window of opportunity where they could lead the congress and the American people where they wanted them to be.

    What is clear is that Bush destroyed any and all good will that was focused on America after the attack on 9-11 with the way he handled Iraq. I contend that Bush had it in his power to be a great leader but he just doesnít have what it takes.

    Edit: Sorry for straying off topic there at the last, but most of it was on topic.
    A very well thought out, strikingly accurate post.....wish there were more like ya in TLR

  9. #39
    Joined
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    Toronto burbs, Canada
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    61
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    99

    Re: Iran Its Getting Serious

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24
    A very well thought out, strikingly accurate post.....wish there were more like ya in TLR
    I agree totally - Excellent post RatBoyX Well done!
    Cheers!


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    "Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly." Albert Einstein, quoted in New York Times, March 13, 1940

  10. #40
    Joined
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    816

    Re: Iran Its Getting Serious

    Quote Originally Posted by RatboyX
    There are lots of reasons why I donít believe that we will be sending troops into Iran but the overriding one is time. Iím sure that Bush would LOVE to invade Iran but heís simply running out of time in his presidency. The administration simply underestimated the amount of time they would have troops in Iraq, not that it would have stopped them. So Iran and a few other countries where Bush would have liked to invade will slip from his fingers.
    You are forgetting a certain small nation state in the region with a hella-lotta weapons that is likely to become more and more nervous the closer Iran gets to going nuclear and whose nerves aren't exactly soothed by the offensive rubbish that the new Iranian PM spouts out at every opportunity.

  11. #41
    Joined
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    Location
    Long Beach CA
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    4,773

    Re: Iran Its Getting Serious

    Quote Originally Posted by h_a_
    You are forgetting a certain small nation state in the region with a hella-lotta weapons that is likely to become more and more nervous the closer Iran gets to going nuclear and whose nerves aren't exactly soothed by the offensive rubbish that the new Iranian PM spouts out at every opportunity.
    Nope I havenít forgotten Israel. They may try and play a trump card to get us into Iran and there is a good possibility of it. It all depends on what happens after the Sharon situation gets cleared up. Also a timing issue there with Israel in the middle of trying to work out something with the Palestinians.

    I do have to say that they have an even bigger stake in Iran than we do.
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  12. #42
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Fort Collins, CO
    Posts
    1,235

    Re: Iran Its Getting Serious

    I forsee military action in the near future if Iran continues down this road.

    Why? Because sanctions won't work. There's no possible way the world economy would handle an embargo against Iran if it included their oil as well. Without including their oil in the embargo, it would have little impact.

    That being said, the 'free world' if you will, will not tolerate the idea of Iran having nuclear weapons. If Iran is determined to pursue that course of action, frankly speaking: They'll get their ass handed to them.

    The US as a country knows exactly where the reactors are and the research being done. We have the technology to strike them without being detected on radar, and Iran certainly is not in a position to counter us. If an 'all-out' war is not deemed a viable option, a tactical strike to cripple their 'research' certainly would be considered.

    The crux of the UN problem, once again, is that Russia has a huge financial interest in Iran and would likely look towards their own outcome rather than world security when negotiating any possible UN resolutions against Iran.

    But again I assure you: Iran will NOT be permitted to create a nuclear weapon.

  13. #43
    Joined
    Jun 2004
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    In a house
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    5,755

    Re: Iran Its Getting Serious

    Quote Originally Posted by Trekari
    I forsee military action in the near future if Iran continues down this road.

    Why? Because sanctions won't work. There's no possible way the world economy would handle an embargo against Iran if it included their oil as well. Without including their oil in the embargo, it would have little impact.

    That being said, the 'free world' if you will, will not tolerate the idea of Iran having nuclear weapons. If Iran is determined to pursue that course of action, frankly speaking: They'll get their ass handed to them.

    The US as a country knows exactly where the reactors are and the research being done. We have the technology to strike them without being detected on radar, and Iran certainly is not in a position to counter us. If an 'all-out' war is not deemed a viable option, a tactical strike to cripple their 'research' certainly would be considered.

    The crux of the UN problem, once again, is that Russia has a huge financial interest in Iran and would likely look towards their own outcome rather than world security when negotiating any possible UN resolutions against Iran.

    But again I assure you: Iran will NOT be permitted to create a nuclear weapon.
    omg I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH YOU

  14. #44
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    Re: Iran Its Getting Serious

    If they do attack Iran it won't be a full scale invasion. It will probably be a strike similar to the Israeli attack on Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor back in 1981. That put Saddam out of the game for 10 years+. Not many people know this, but about 6 months earlier, two Iranian Phantom jets bombed the same facility and caused minor damage.

    These large scale facilities aren't easy to totally destroy though. In 1991 the USAF attacked the Osirak complex several times with numerous aircraft before they'd damaged it enough to their satisfaction.

  15. #45
    Joined
    Aug 2001
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    74,684

    Re: Iran Its Getting Serious


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