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  1. #1
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    ACLU defends terror supporters' right to U.S. access

    Huh?? Did a double take there myself.. So apparently according to the ACLU we need to welcome with open arms those who endorse and espoused terrorism.

    ACLU defends terror supporters' right to U.S. access

    NEW YORK (AP) — A civil rights group asked a judge Friday to find it unconstitutional for the federal government to exclude a prominent Muslim scholar or anyone else from the United States on the grounds that they may have endorsed or espoused terrorism.

    The American Civil Liberties Union filed the papers attacking the policy in U.S. District Court in Manhattan. The group included in its submissions a written declaration in which the scholar, Tariq Ramadan, said he has always “opposed terrorism not only through my words but also through my actions.”

    The ACLU said schools and organizations who want to invite Ramadan and others into the United States are concerned about what is known as the ideological exclusion provision.

    It said an entry in the State Department’s Foreign Affairs Manual says that the provision is directed at those who have voiced “irresponsible expressions of opinion.”

    The group said the provision violates the First Amendment and has resulted since 2001 in the exclusion from the United States of numerous foreign scholars, human rights activists and writers, barred “not for legitimate security reasons but rather because the government disfavors their politics.”

    The ACLU said some foreign scholars and writers are now reluctant to accept invitations to the United States because they will be subjected to ideological scrutiny and possibly denied entry.

    Rebekah Carmichael, a spokeswoman for government lawyers, said she had no comment Friday.

    In the case of Ramadan, a 44-year-old native of Switzerland, the ACLU said he was excluded last year for making small donations that totaled $1,336 to the Association de Secours Palestinien, an organization that the U.S. government said he should have known provided funds to Hamas, which the government has designated a foreign terrorist organization.

    Ramadan said in court papers the donation was for humanitarian aid and he would not have given it “if I had thought my money would be used for terrorism or any other illegal purpose.”

    Before his visa was revoked in 2004, Ramadan had spoken at Harvard University, Stanford University and elsewhere. He said he continues to decline numerous invitations to appear in the United States, including a request by The American Academy of Religion to speak next November at its annual meeting.
    Goes without saying that CAIR still supports him..

    CAIR Continues to Support Tariq Ramadan, Excluded From Entry For His Actions

    CAIR Continues to Support Tariq Ramadan, Excluded From Entry For His Actions
    By Andrew Cochran

    Tariq Ramadan, who was denied a visa to enter the U.S. last September, has written an article for "The Chronicle of Higher Education" in which he asserts once again that his denial was due to his criticism of American foreign policy and a general "fear of ideas." The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) chose to highlight a link to Ramadan's article on its home page and include more text on another page.

    Clearly CAIR management wanted to support Ramadan's efforts to show that the Administration excluded Ramadan for political reasons with no reference to his own actions. We've already been through Ramadan's own actions which merited his exclusion, but since CAIR and Ramadan choose to continue their propaganda campaign instead of living in reality, here is what I wrote on October 2 of last year, with links to numerous posts by our Contributing Experts:

    We have tracked Ramadan's repeated attempts to enter the U.S. and hide his past; I last wrote on them on August 30, with links to other entries by Doug Farah, Steven Emerson (who wrote of Ramadan's support for attacks against the U.S., Israel, and Russia), Olivier Guitta, Lorenzo Vidino, and Bill West. Then, in his post here on September 29, Doug Farah discussed European intel detailing contacts between Ramadan and numerous terrorists, including Al Qaeda #2 Ayman al-Zawahiri (when he was still running Egyptian Islamic Jihad), Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman (the 1993 WTC bombing), and others. Other terrorism experts have provided more details of Ramadan's statements or publications in support of terrorism. And far from being "humanitarian organizations," as Ramadan claims, the two groups to which he contributed "have appeared in several terrorist investigations since 1995..."

    After I posted that, Olivier Guitta wrote a Weekly Standard article with more information on Ramadan's association with known terrorists.

    CAIR's support of a man with known terrorist connections contradicts any claim that it opposes terrorism.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  2. #2
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    Re: ACLU defends terror supporters' right to U.S. access

    So

    “irresponsible expressions of opinion.”
    =

    Terrorist?

  3. #3
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    Re: ACLU defends terror supporters' right to U.S. access

    Money quote:

    endorsed or espoused terrorism
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  4. #4
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    Re: ACLU defends terror supporters' right to U.S. access

    Oh come on.....

    You really believe this?

    You really think the ACLU really wants terrorists to come into the country?

    This is about one thing: Define "espoused or endorsed terrorism"

    If the US government can come up with a legal definition for that, then the ACLU will back off.....guaranteed. This is all about language. Its about keeping control of big brother, because if we don't then someday we will all be considered terrorists in one context or another.

    And yes, my tin foil hat is firmly secured.

  5. #5
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    Re: ACLU defends terror supporters' right to U.S. access

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidsoul View Post
    So

    =

    Terrorist?
    I think I'm finally getting to understand the left... everything up to the bomb exploding, the plane being hijacked or the neck severed with a machette, is perfectly legal and shouldn't be interfered with, but its the Bushy's job to stop 'em all.

  6. #6
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    Re: ACLU defends terror supporters' right to U.S. access

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    I think I'm finally getting to understand the left... everything up to the bomb exploding, the plane being hijacked or the neck severed with a machette, is perfectly legal and shouldn't be interfered with, but its the Bushy's job to stop 'em all.
    So long as my actions and words infringe upon no one else's rights the government has no place regulating them. In fact, we have a Constitution that says so. You know, the document the president swears to uphold and defend? It tells us among other things that everyone under its laws has the right to free speech, regardless of their religion or national origin.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  7. #7
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    Re: ACLU defends terror supporters' right to U.S. access

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan View Post
    So long as my actions and words infringe upon no one else's rights the government has no place regulating them. In fact, we have a Constitution that says so. You know, the document the president swears to uphold and defend? It tells us among other things that everyone under its laws has the right to free speech, regardless of their religion or national origin.
    Please enter into the discussion elsewhere about fluorescant lighting.

  8. #8
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    Re: ACLU defends terror supporters' right to U.S. access

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    Oh come on.....

    You really believe this?

    You really think the ACLU really wants terrorists to come into the country?

    This is about one thing: Define "espoused or endorsed terrorism"

    If the US government can come up with a legal definition for that, then the ACLU will back off.....guaranteed. This is all about language. Its about keeping control of big brother, because if we don't then someday we will all be considered terrorists in one context or another.

    And yes, my tin foil hat is firmly secured.
    Don't let that hat cut off the circulation just yet. And yes.. I firmly believe the ACLU and their buddies at CAIR want to let terrorists into the country. The two work VERY closely together and are one in the same IMHO. Do a lil research on this fine fellow the ACLU is fighting to let back into the country. Then explain why anyone truly interested in "civil liberties" would be fighting to get him into the country... there is only one explanation that makes any sense at all to me.

    There is probably a damn sight more to this than the ACLU looking for the definition of "espoused or endorsed terrorism". Regardless, he is not a citizen.. therefore has no right to demand to know why his visa was denied. I take that back.. he and the ACLU can demand till they are blue in the face... we are not legally obliged to respond. As the below article states.. this may have just been the most "publicly releasable" reason. Either way, we reserve the right to say no to whoever we damn well please. While in my opinion I feel the ACLU would like to extend the protections guaranteed to “We the People” to every terrorist and terrorist enabler in the world... this is not how we roll.

    But by all means.. do a lil google'ing and tell me if YOU would let this guy into the country were you in a position to decide. Mind you, while there is a more than enough evidence out there to make me want to keep this guy out of the US.. my guess is there is probably much more not out in the public domain yet also.

    Tariq Ramadan Denied US Visa

    Tariq Ramadan, the controversial Swiss Muslim professor previously denied entry into the United States after he was offered a teaching position at Notre Dame two years ago, has officially been denied another US entry visa according to published media reports today as well as a release on Ramadan’s own Web site. Ramadan’s version seems to exculpate him from any links to supporting terrorism. He says the State Department denial letter claims the visa was not issued because he gave a small amount of money to a charity in France that helped Palestinians and this is evidence the US Government believes he does not support terrorism (and that he does not engage in “double-speak”). The media reports indicate a statement from the State Department noting otherwise; that the visa denial was in fact, "based solely on his actions, which constituted providing material support to a terrorist organization."

    It is possible the US Government gave the most "publicly releasable" reason in its denial letter. Especially for visa adjudication purposes under US immigration law, contributing money to a charity determined to be a funding funnel for Hamas could constitute support for terrorism no matter how Ramadan and his supporters might try to spin it. And for visa denial purposes, proof need not be anything close to criminal standards nor even court-use standards...it's all administrative action with virtually no due process rights accorded the foreign-based alien...something that still drives those apologists crazy. And this may be only one item of evidence the Government has against him. If so, it is merely what they chose to publicly release in the official denial document because in these visa adjudication proceedings all it takes is one such basis. Something else that drives the apologists nuts.

    Perhaps before the United States grants every person on planet earth that is involved in every and any legal proceeding that in any way involves the United States the full panoply of Constitutional and civil rights enjoyed by US citizens and residents living within the borders of America, “We the People” of the United States should grant our Government officials some degree of latitude in dealing with issues like keeping some foreign nationals out of this country. Ironically, at times the hue and cry over uncontrolled immigration seems to have been turned on its head in the Ramadan case.
    US visa denied to Tariq Ramadan for terrorism financing

    US visa denied to Tariq Ramadan for terrorism financing

    Following our recent press release on “New Information about Tariq Ramadan’s Links to Terrorism” exposing new evidence that Tariq Ramadan had links to many convicted terrorists in Europe, the USG finally denied a visa to the Islamic scholar “for providing material support to a terrorist organization”.

    The US State Department stated that, among other things, since year 2000, Ramadan donated about $765 to French and Swiss organizations, namely the Comité de Bienfaisance et de Secours aux Palestiniens (CBSP) and the Association de Secours Palestinien (ASP), both designated by the US Treasury Department on August 22, 2003 for their financial support to Hamas. The USG stated at the time that these organizations are “part of a web of charities raising funds on behalf of Hamas and using humanitarian purposes as a cover for acts that support Hamas”.

    Despite the fact that these organizations were not designated in Europe, the CBSP and ASP have appeared in several terrorist investigations since 1995, when the prosecution of the 1995 bombings in Paris revealed that Algerian GIA members were raising funds for the CBSP.

    Contrary to what Tariq Ramadan still claims, he was denied entry in the US not for his ideas or views. He is not the “victim” of any “ideological exclusion” but the sole responsible of his own actions in supporting terrorism.

    EDITOR's NOTE (10/01/2006): Tariq Ramadan has an op-ed in today's Washington Post in which he writes about his being banned from the USA. Notice that he does not address the issues first released here by Jean-Charles Brisard.

    Douglas Farah at the CT Blog also refers to Jean-Charles' original post here.

    The CT Blog has more on Tariq Ramadan here.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  9. #9
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    Re: ACLU defends terror supporters' right to U.S. access

    UC Berkeley coming attractions Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri.

  10. #10
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    Re: ACLU defends terror supporters' right to U.S. access

    Personally I want people to feel welcome here. I don't want people to be afraid that because they are different they will be shunned.

    I have no problem denying entry to a person who is a threat to the security and safety of this nation. But denying entry to a person and not telling them why doesn't help. Ramadan was not a member of Hamas or any terrorist organization that we know of, and besides, if someone were coming here to perform acts of terrorism, do you think they would accept highly publicized invitations to universities?

    As far as CAIR and the ACLU, what in god's name would these organizations have to gain by helping terrorists enter the US? It's ridiculous. The fact is people just love to hate.
    -soplcod

  11. #11
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    Re: ACLU defends terror supporters' right to U.S. access

    Quote Originally Posted by sopclod View Post
    Personally I want people to feel welcome here. I don't want people to be afraid that because they are different they will be shunned.
    He is being kept out due to terrorist ties, not because he is "different".

    Quote Originally Posted by sopclod View Post
    I have no problem denying entry to a person who is a threat to the security and safety of this nation. But denying entry to a person and not telling them why doesn't help. Ramadan was not a member of Hamas or any terrorist organization that we know of, and besides, if someone were coming here to perform acts of terrorism, do you think they would accept highly publicized invitations to universities?
    That WE know of? There is quite a bit of public information linking this guy to terrorists and terrorist funders. That alone is enough for me to want to keep him out. Would he accept highly publicized invitations to universities? Absolutely... nothing like being able to carry on the business of terrorism with universities footing the bill and adding some legitimacy to your visit.

    Quote Originally Posted by sopclod View Post
    As far as CAIR and the ACLU, what in god's name would these organizations have to gain by helping terrorists enter the US? It's ridiculous. The fact is people just love to hate.
    The fact is these organizations just love to hate the US... and are doing their best to destroy it from the inside out.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  12. #12
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    Re: ACLU defends terror supporters' right to U.S. access

    So Scooter, would you be so kind to sum up his terrorist activities for me? I seem to be confused as I don't seem to find any evidence at all.

    He has given 765$ to humanitarian organizations who might have ended up giving something to Hamas. 765$ is not enough for me to upgrade my rig and even then, this so called evidence is speculation and circumstantial.

    He is not admitted to the US because of his ethnic origin and opinion, imo.
    Educated opposition, certainly from a Muslim. Can't have that
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  13. #13
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    Re: ACLU defends terror supporters' right to U.S. access

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf2000me View Post
    So Scooter, would you be so kind to sum up his terrorist activities for me? I seem to be confused as I don't seem to find any evidence at all.
    If you truly seek information(which I doubt), do a bit of research on your own.. ther is plenty of information out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf2000me View Post
    He has given 765$ to humanitarian organizations who might have ended up giving something to Hamas. 765$ is not enough for me to upgrade my rig and even then, this so called evidence is speculation and circumstantial.
    Nice spin... "humanitarian organizations"...lol, you could work for the ACLU and CAIR. They were financial fronts for Hamas, does the actual dollar amount make a difference? Ok... so he only gave enough for the down payment on a roadside bomb... I guess that makes it ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf2000me View Post
    He is not admitted to the US because of his ethnic origin and opinion, imo.
    Do you even know what is "ethnic origin" is? And by that standard can you explain the number of his "ethnicity" in the us if there were a systematic plot to keep them out? Your conspiracy theory is not passing the smell test.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf2000me View Post
    Educated opposition, certainly from a Muslim. Can't have that
    Contrary to what Tariq Ramadan still claims, he was denied entry in the US not for his ideas or views. He is not the “victim” of any “ideological exclusion” but the sole responsible of his own actions in supporting terrorism.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  14. #14
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    Re: ACLU defends terror supporters' right to U.S. access

    Give up his immigration slot to a Belgian on the waiting list... problem solved.


    And yes, the blue eyed blonde svelte Christian one named Hedda.

  15. #15
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    Re: ACLU defends terror supporters' right to U.S. access

    Just consider this boys.....

    If I call up my drug dealer right now and get an ounce of weed, then the US government would officially classify me as supporting terrorism.

    The ACLU and CAIR in bed together in order to help bring terrorists into this country? Man and I thought I was the one wearing the tin foil hat.

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