The Great Global Warming Thread (merged)

[Enmore]

More scammers scammed:

Carbon Thieves Force European Union to Improve Security, Close Spot Market

By Ewa Krukowska and Mathew Carr - Jan 21, 2011

The European Union, whose decision to suspend registries halted the region’s spot carbon-emissions market following the theft of permits, said it won’t lift restrictions until member states step up identification checks.

The European Commission, the Brussels-based regulator, was discussing new security measures today with the bloc’s 27 national governments. It suspended most operations at Europe’s 30 registries for greenhouse-gas emissions on Jan. 19 after a Czech trader reviewing his $9 million account found “nothing was there.” The EU estimates permits worth as many as 29 million euros ($39 million) may be missing

I'm sure its sister market in papal indulgences is still running though.

This is another story going unreported in the MSM. The Daily Telegraph was obviously 'got at' and pulled their story.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...t-markets.html

[AMDScooter]

I don't understand. You seem to be in a habit of reposting the same thing over and over again as if you need attention.

And yes, I have stopped discussing things when they run their course. What's your point with that quip?

Confusion as to why I post is a rather odd position for a guy who continues to ask the same questions.

You know the use of religious adjectives towards me when I ask for results to charges only makes me wonder if this is another example of projection. Certainly it does nothing for discussion. So to my question of results to the charges made against the scientists hacked?

Nothing. But they said it. Fine.

Results to charges... lol. Only the true believers like yourself buy the whitewash your cults priests have bestowed upon themselves. The rest of us are doomed to believing our lying eyes.

Really. That explains to you why the list of international organizations of science all have written position statements that don't support your side? It's all a conspiracy of bad science with the university system in cahoots with the nasty government? Fine scoot.

That's why you can't name one science organization that supports your side?

One side blocks the other? You act like there aren't papers written that explore other forcing influences besides man. You act like there are no skeptics in universities getting funds.

My point here, is that your adjectives of religion and ridicule towards anyone looking at the science and waiting for proof against the overwhelming evidence is pretty feeble. If anything, your side is looking more like a cult with nothing other than conspiracies and need to rely on the science of non-scientists.

I'd say funding and intimidation goes a long way with the evidence provided. Conspiracy? Yes. I have firsthand written emails as to how your cult handles dissenters who stray from the flock. As to my comments about your cult. "Faith" seems the only possible reason for one to have seen how the purveyors of MMGW have gone about the business of creating MMGW from whole cloth and defending itself from inquiry...

I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd (sic) from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.

We have to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period.

I'll delete the file rather than send it to anyone

Don't any of you three tell anyone the UK has a Freedom of Information Act

Think I've managed to persuade the UEA to ignore all further FOI requests if they come from Climate Autit (Sceptics website)

Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4? (The IPCC's fourthassessment report) Keith will do likewise. Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? We will be getting Caspar to do likewise.

So my feeble suggestion is to indeed cast aspersions on their motives and throw in some counter rhetoric. Labeling them as lazy with nothing better to do seems like a good thing to do.

^^^ Ya.. that's Science BABY!! "Peer reviewed" science at that! Er.. no. Actually those conversations are a good example of a scienific FAIL.

Anyone interested in science would have run screaming from your cult as if their hair was on fire were it not for the fact their very livelihood were dependent on towing the MMGW line IMHO. Face it otoc, the way your false prophets have treated dissenters is much like the church treated Galileo. The only difference being their "faith" is based on MMGW.. their "god". And you my leftist pal might as well go out and buy a purple robe and pair of Nike's. The evidence does point to a conspiracy.. and on a global level.

[AMDScooter]

More scammers scammed:



I'm sure its sister market in papal indulgences is still running though.

This is another story going unreported in the MSM. The Daily Telegraph was obviously 'got at' and pulled their story.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...t-markets.html

Who knew selling ghost farts would be so difficult.

[otoc]

Confusion as to why I post is a rather odd position for a guy who continues to ask the same questions.

No, scoot, the question was about your repeat posts containing the same thing. Or what your point was about me ending conversations for thought lines that repeat the same thing in relation to me simply answering you.

How about answering my questions or letting it drop.

Results to charges... lol. Only the true believers like yourself buy the whitewash your cults priests have bestowed upon themselves. The rest of us are doomed to believing our lying eyes.

The cult response again with nothing to prove your point. Am I calling you doomed? No. I'm asking you for results beyond the same thing posted over and over again. And there are none, are there.

I'd say funding and intimidation goes a long way with the evidence provided. Conspiracy? Yes. I have firsthand written emails as to how your cult handles dissenters who stray from the flock. As to my comments about your cult. "Faith" seems the only possible reason for one to have seen how the purveyors of MMGW have gone about the business of creating MMGW from whole cloth and defending itself from inquiry...

Right, that conspiracy you can't put your finger on. We covered that.

To repeat the point, you call anyone having a different opinion a cult. That's my point. I'm basing my opinion on papers and interpretations by experts. All you can do is project what you are doing. Where are the organizations that back your position? Any?

If this is all about a conspiracy, then well, have your opinion. I'm done debating smoke.

^^^ Ya.. that's Science BABY!! "Peer reviewed" science at that! Er.. no. Actually those conversations are a good example of a scienific FAIL.

Anyone interested in science would have run screaming from your cult as if their hair was on fire were it not for the fact their very livelihood were dependent on towing the MMGW line IMHO. Face it otoc, the way your false prophets have treated dissenters is much like the church treated Galileo. The only difference being their "faith" is based on MMGW.. their "god". And you my leftist pal might as well go out and buy a purple robe and pair of Nike's. The evidence does point to a conspiracy.. and on a global level.

So that's your opinion. I disagree. I guess we are done since all you can do is blow smoke and can't answer two simple questions.

What has resulted with the release of the hacked cherry picked emails to support the accusations that peer review is FAIL?

What scientific organizations back your position to give any support to your terrific and wordy insults?

None. Just smoke, conspiracies, and name calling. No content. Have a nice day, scoot. If this is what your side backs your position on, well, have your opinion.

And note, I didn't have to call any skeptic or even you a name other than to wonder why there is a need to call names when this is about science.

And dude. I know I'm to the left of you. So is 98% of the world. What's your point other than to divert the conversation away from the topic we were discussing? And no. We aren't friends. Your pet wisecrack about my parents both passing away ended any possibility of that. You really do have trouble with reality, don't you?

[AMDScooter]

No, scoot, the question was about your repeat posts containing the same thing. Or what your point was about me ending conversations for thought lines that repeat the same thing in relation to me simply answering you.

How about answering my questions or letting it drop.

Are you going to keep questioning why I keep responding to you? I am answering your questions. Go boo hoo elsewhere that the responses don't jibe with the points your cult want's perpetuated.

The cult response again with nothing to prove your point. Am I calling you doomed? No. I'm asking you for results beyond the same thing posted over and over again. And there are none, are there.

Right, that conspiracy you can't put your finger on. We covered that.

Ya.. it's a me thing. There's nothing here to indicate a conspiracy. Nope.. nuthin' to see here.. keep moving.



We've covered that according to otoc. The "OMFG cherry picked and hacked!" emails obviously mean something other than what they actually say.. and that's that. There is obviously nothing left to discuss because otoc says so. Good work Officer Barbrady.

To repeat the point, you call anyone having a different opinion a cult. That's my point. I'm basing my opinion on papers and interpretations by experts.

Ya.. "peer reviewed" papers and interpretations by experts at that right??

Hide the decline

Nature trick

get rid of the Medieval Warm Period

Sh*t... who could argue with that "logic"? I'd like to see someone try that defense in court. And I mean it.. I'd love to see your cult leaders brought up on charges of outright fraud.

All you can do is project what you are doing. Where are the organizations that back your position? Any?

If this is all about a conspiracy, then well, have your opinion. I'm done debating smoke.

So that's your opinion. I disagree. I guess we are done since all you can do is blow smoke and can't answer two simple questions.

What has resulted with the release of the hacked cherry picked emails to support the accusations that peer review is ?

What scientific organizations back your position to give any support to your terrific and wordy insults?

None. Just smoke, conspiracies, and name calling. No content. Have a nice day, scoot. If this is what your side backs your position on, well, have your opinion.

And note, I didn't have to call any skeptic or even you a name other than to wonder why there is a need to call names when this is about science.

Back to the boilerplate cultist "prove me wrong" bit eh? To borrow a train of thought again.. it's still comical to still see you habitually pimping the idea I have to prove my case. I don’t. Your cult is proposing the theory, not me. It’s asymmetrical. All I have to do is keep pointing out where the theory and the predictions in particular do not fit the facts. Falsification. On the basis of prediction, your cult has failed dismally. The theory is wrong.

Roll it up and smoke it for all I care. It ain't a me thing or an opinion. You are convinced the facts are other than what they are. Sorry to continue to burst you bubble. It's not my issue that you cannot scrape together a logical or coherent response as to why data should be hidden & destroyed other than to keep asking what the "Results to charges" were. As if there was ever any question your cult members would once again self check themselves and find no wrongdoing.

Or why Using tricks to hide the decline and get rid of the Medieval Warm Period is good scientific practice. Well.. other than to repeat the stance that the very same like minded individuals that "peer reviewed" that "work" also "peer reviewed" the work that supported the initial bad work and said "it's all cool".

The hockey stick is still a broke arsed POS based on code so biased to mining hockey stick supporting data it can be fed red noise or phone numbers and still produce the same results. As are Caspar and Wahl's mind numbing papers that supposedly replicated it by inventing from whole cloth the calibration/verification RE ratio. Invented catastrophes proved by invented statistics. That pretty much sums up the MMGW cult in a nutshell.

And dude. I know I'm to the left of you. So is 98% of the world. What's your point other than to divert the conversation away from the topic we were discussing? And no. We aren't friends. Your pet wisecrack about my parents both passing away ended any possibility of that. You really do have trouble with reality, don't you?

The forums most prolific "centrist"/"registered libertarian" and defender of the lefts ideology accusing me of having reality issues.

As an aside. You should simply drop the "otoc is the victim" bit. Your accusation that I in any way shape or form belittled your parents passing did not fly at the time you made it. Nor does it help lend creditability to your post today. Matter of fact it's patently stupid for the same guy who used his mothers Alzheimer's as a cheap prop for a forum response to be claiming to be hyper sensitive to his parents passing to begin with. No.. we are not friends. Nor do I see a beer summit in the immediate future.

[kbohip]

And yes, I have stopped discussing things when they run their course. What's your point with that quip?

I got that far when I had to laugh. To say that things have "run their course" in this thread is an understatement, yet you still ignore the mountains of evidence Scooter, Enmore, Dutch, Steve, Hell, just about everyone has offered showing that the whole "MMGWClimatechange" scam is just that. No offense otoc but I get the idea that if Al Gore and all of the top experts in the MMGW movement had a press conference tomorrow saying the whole thing was just a way to get easy research grant money you'd immediately start providing evidence that the Republicans made them do it and they are all working for big oil now.

[otoc]

I got that far when I had to laugh. To say that things have "run their course" in this thread is an understatement, yet you still ignore the mountains of evidence Scooter, Enmore, Dutch, Steve, Hell, just about everyone has offered showing that the whole "MMGWClimatechange" scam is just that. No offense otoc but I get the idea that if Al Gore and all of the top experts in the MMGW movement had a press conference tomorrow saying the whole thing was just a way to get easy research grant money you'd immediately start providing evidence that the Republicans made them do it and they are all working for big oil now.

Since you don't read my posts due to the supporting links then how would you know whether or not I respond to your list?

[Dutchcedar]

Show of hands, please...

Anyone who reads all of otoc's posts and supporting links...

[SteveW]

^ Ok, now what's with the re-alignment of the signature block? Do I get FULL credit this time? (For removal of the "Idiot" section) Or, just credit for the "I"?

I was a little dissapointed last time.

[SteveW]

Show of hands, please...

Anyone who reads all of otoc's posts and supporting links...

Anybody.......anybody.......anybody.........Bueller.......Beuller..........Beuller....

Ok, new poll - Who reads the first line, then speed scans the rest while mentally working out the basic framework to hammer him?

BONUS QUESTION: Has otoc ever lost his lunch money? If so, how many times?

[AMDScooter]

To otoc: seeing as my use of "hacked cherry picked emails" to prove the conspiracy are an issue. I invite you.. otoc... to please put them in context so we may all understand why they do not indicate a conspiracy.

con·spir·a·cy   
[kuhn-spir-uh-see] Show IPA
–noun, plural -cies.
1. the act of conspiring.
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4. Law . an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.

I won't even ask you to defend all the emails... just the few in this img I've used:



Here is an archive of all the emails so you may "contextualize" your responses:

http://www.climate-gate.org/

This should be an easy task for one who continues to call my posting of the emails as facts proving a conspiracy "smoke". Simple explanations in your own words backed up with supporting non-cherry picked emails will suffice nicely. Thanks in advance.

[kbohip]

Since you don't read my posts due to the supporting links then how would you know whether or not I respond to your list?

Don't need to read your posts anymore otoc. You never change.

[Enmore]

Danish enviro-weeny Bjorn Lomborg (who I'm pretty sure has been mentioned before on this thread) was on a new late night British comedy/chat show called 10 O'Clock Live last Thursday.

He's a believer in man made global warming (of course) but realises that efforts to reduce CO2 outputs aren't making a damned bit of difference. Therefore, he'd like us to spend more on green scientific R&D and take measures to counter the effects of climate change.

One of his big ideas is to create a sort of man-made volcano and spew sulphur dioxide into the atmosphere. Sulphur dioxide it seems, reflects sunlight and has a cooling effect. This is evident for a few years after real volcanos erupt such as Mt Pinatubo in 1991.

Now I seem to remember sulphur dioxide being blamed for causing acid rain a decade or two ago, so I guess he's either got a very short memory, or he's utterly nuts. The comedian who interviewed him made him look a bit of a looney and the audience were definitely laughing at him rather than with him.

He was also laughed at when he suggested we paint our rooftops white. And again when he said we need to make clouds whiter.


I can't find the exert on You Tube etc, but the program is available to view online from the Channel 4's On Demand service.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/1...ve/4od#3156825

You'd probably have to spoof you IP to a UK one (using something like Tor). If you can be bothered it starts about 20 minutes in.

[SteveW]

^^^^^ He's got plenty spewing straight out his a$$ right now - what more is needed????

[Enmore]

Dat da daa......Dat da da........Hold the front page....this just in:

Latest on the ice-trapped Russian ships rescue:

Icebreakers to lead ship out of ice as weather improves

22.01.2011

VLADIVOSTOK, January 22 (Itar-Tass) -- In the Sea of Okhotsk icebreakers are expected to begin to lead the transport refrigerator Bereg Nadezhdy ("Coast of Hope") to the clear water this Saturday. Near the ice-blocked ship, the icebreakers Krasin and Admiral Makarov are in readiness to begin moving. The convoy will start out as the weather improves, the Far Eastern shipping company reported.

On Friday, in the rescue operation area in the Sakhalin Gulf, a strong cyclone raged with heavy snow and wind gusts of up to 15 m/sec. There was strong compression of ice with more than 1,5-metre hummocks. According to Sakhalin meteorologists, a snowstorm hits the bay again on Saturday, but the cyclone is gradually subsiding, and it snows intermittently.

The ships have about 30 miles ahead to reach the clear water. The tanker Victoria is planned to come to the convoy at the clearer area to refuel the icebreakers, and then they will return to the mother ship Sodruzhestvo left in the ice.

The rescue operation began in the Sea of Okhotsk on December 31 when ships trapped in the ice in the Sakhalin Gulf sent a distress signal asking for help. There were the mother ship Sodruzhestvo, the refrigerator Bereg Nadezhdy, the scientific research ship Professor Kizevetter and the trawler Mys Yelizavety. Two vessels have already been brought to a safe area.

I now return you to reports that President Obama is using Just For Men...


http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2....9027&PageNum=0