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  1. #1
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    Talking It looks like Prius drivers may be the biggest polluters of all.

    This article just reaffirms what I've always said about the Toyota Prius, and all hybrids for that matter. The gas mileage means very little if it's batteries, and the very environmentally unfriendly way in which they are made, not to mention transported around the world via fossil fuels, are such big polluters. Simply put, any battery powered hybrid vehicle is not a good answer to the global pollution problem. Until they can invent a more eco-friendly battery, hybrids are worse than SUV's imo.

    http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArti...59455997533377
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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  2. #2
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    Re: It looks like Prius drivers may be the biggest polluters of all.

    I agree. My son just bought a Corolla that got 44 mpg on a trip across the state. Seems like a better choice to me.
    Brian

  3. #3
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    Re: It looks like Prius drivers may be the biggest polluters of all.

    For me, it's more about sticking it to the oil companies, and robbing the ME barons. Though, i'll probably get a v6 sedan next time, which are getting in the 30's highway, and convert it to E85. It's plentifull here and people are saying it can generate mucho horsepower.

  4. #4
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    Re: It looks like Prius drivers may be the biggest polluters of all.

    this topic has been discussed to death on the priuschat forums. In this post is an article that is basicly the same as the one you referenced. It has been shown to be incorrect:

    http://priuschat.com/Hummer-better-t...le-t30898.html
    Just walk up to a girl and say "If you were x^2 I'd wanna be (1/3)x^3 cause I'd be the area under your curves." -salutethyshorts

  5. #5
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    Re: It looks like Prius drivers may be the biggest polluters of all.

    What's incorrect about the article? It uses nickel metal hydride batteries with 168 cells. Nickel Metal Hydride, although less destructive to the environment than Ni-Cd, are still nevertheless not something you can simply toss in the garbage when your done with them. Are they not mined in Canada and shipped all over the world during manufacturing? I ask this because I only have the quoted article to go by, but it makes sense to me.

    As far as E-85 goes, I have my doubts as to how good it is for the environment. E-85 produces less energy than regular gasoline and cars running it get worse mileage than regular gas. The good things about it are it very, very slightly reduces our dependence on foreign oil and that it helps our economy (read farmers) as well as reducing greenhouse gases, although I'd really like to know by how much considering what it takes to produce it.

    Personally I think it's a joke as even though it *may* save you a little bit of money at the pump, it's costing you more at the grocery store because of the inflated price of corn. Below is a good article stating the pluses and minuses of E-85.

    http://www.tbo.com/news/nationworld/MGBOFNC9JZE.html
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

    Edmund Burke

    RIP PCPER TLR
    7-14-19

  6. #6
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    Re: It looks like Prius drivers may be the biggest polluters of all.

    Quote Originally Posted by kbohip View Post
    What's incorrect about the article? It uses nickel metal hydride batteries with 168 cells. Nickel Metal Hydride, although less destructive to the environment than Ni-Cd, are still nevertheless not something you can simply toss in the garbage when your done with them. Are they not mined in Canada and shipped all over the world during manufacturing? I ask this because I only have the quoted article to go by, but it makes sense to me.

    As far as E-85 goes, I have my doubts as to how good it is for the environment. E-85 produces less energy than regular gasoline and cars running it get worse mileage than regular gas. The good things about it are it very, very slightly reduces our dependence on foreign oil and that it helps our economy (read farmers) as well as reducing greenhouse gases, although I'd really like to know by how much considering what it takes to produce it.

    Personally I think it's a joke as even though it *may* save you a little bit of money at the pump, it's costing you more at the grocery store because of the inflated price of corn. Below is a good article stating the pluses and minuses of E-85.

    http://www.tbo.com/news/nationworld/MGBOFNC9JZE.html
    the forum I posted a link to has a lot of information about hybrids and about prius in general. You should take a look at what some of the people wrote, I can quote them here if you like (the forum might require free registration in order to view the threads).


    edit: Found the following, might be interesting:

    http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center-...e2SAV1JNIF?s=1

    and this as an explanation:

    http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center-...4RDjNtJNIF?p=1

    The Green Rating covers all the major environmental costs of a motor vehicle, including:

    * Unhealthy smog that comes from tailpipes.
    * Emissions of greenhouse gases that cause global warming.
    * The fuel a vehicle consumes.
    * Pollution from manufacturing the vehicle and its components.
    Last edited by nark; 03-24-2007 at 03:03 AM.
    Just walk up to a girl and say "If you were x^2 I'd wanna be (1/3)x^3 cause I'd be the area under your curves." -salutethyshorts

  7. #7
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    Re: It looks like Prius drivers may be the biggest polluters of all.

    You know what is sad from that list?

    The first car from the big three is number 16. One of the many reasons I refuse to buy from the big three. I would much rather buy a Toyota, Honda, or Subaru. They all have plants in Indiana

  8. #8
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    Re: It looks like Prius drivers may be the biggest polluters of all.

    Quote Originally Posted by nark View Post
    The Green Rating covers all the major environmental costs of a motor vehicle, including:

    * Unhealthy smog that comes from tailpipes.
    * Emissions of greenhouse gases that cause global warming.
    * The fuel a vehicle consumes.
    * Pollution from manufacturing the vehicle and its components.
    I don't know, 'cause it sounds like they aren't considering the toxic waste created by making and disposing of the batteries for the Prius and as kbohip points out, that's a major environmental impact. Maybe I'm missing something, but they're pretty specific about what environmental impacts they're accounting for, none of which have anything to do with the metals used in batteries. For example, they say:
    Major pollutants covered in the ratings include:

    * Greenhouse gases, primarily carbon dioxide (CO2)
    * Fine particles (particulate matter, PM)
    * Nitrogen oxides (NOx)
    * Hydrocarbons (HC)
    * Carbon monoxide (CO)
    and:
    These pollutants are emitted from tailpipes as well as during the production and distribution of fuel. Environmental impacts from auto manufacturing are incorporated by basing part of the Green Rating's derivation on a vehicle's weight.
    ...which leads me to think those are the only polltants considered during the manufacturing of the vehicles, and that's simply not painting a realistic picture of the environmental impact of manufacturing an automobile, especially not one laden with lots of batteries. Besides, basing the environmental impact of manufacturing on wieght simply isn't a very realistic method, although, I'm sure it made their task easier. For example, some of the most complicated automobiles to manufacture and the most environmentally unfriendly are the lightest... like a carbon fiber bodied Ferrari.
    Last edited by Dutchcedar; 03-24-2007 at 07:55 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: It looks like Prius drivers may be the biggest polluters of all.

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidsoul View Post
    You know what is sad from that list?

    The first car from the big three is number 16. One of the many reasons I refuse to buy from the big three. I would much rather buy a Toyota, Honda, or Subaru. They all have plants in Indiana
    Too bad the big three won't make a vehicle that worth a f***


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  10. #10
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    Re: It looks like Prius drivers may be the biggest polluters of all.

    Too bad the big three won't make a vehicle that worth a f***
    I have had Good and bad luck from the big 3 Dodge,GM,and Ford I've drove quite a few pos rice and krout burners too

    Right now I'm having a good customer experience with a 2004 F250 super duty truck 100k miles and a 1995 GMC van 191k miles both run excelent and have had very few problems other than normal brakes and tune up maintenance work.
    Last edited by /\/\adGamer; 03-25-2007 at 01:32 AM.

  11. #11
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    Re: It looks like Prius drivers may be the biggest polluters of all.

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidsoul View Post
    You know what is sad from that list?

    The first car from the big three is number 16. One of the many reasons I refuse to buy from the big three. I would much rather buy a Toyota, Honda, or Subaru. They all have plants in Indiana
    You know whats even more sad than that?

    You can go buy an all gas combustion 1990 Geo Metro and get 58mpg freeway. Mine got 61 and about 55 towards the end of its life... But who's counting.... I'll let everybody else buy those hybrids.

    If you really want to know more about what these hybrids are and why we have them. Read back into the 90's and the attempts to make an eco friendly all electric car. I'm sure a lot of you already remember all that back then. Well just like Bush did with Hydrogen based funding a few years ago we did the same thing over a decade ago. But to agree with the terms and to get the billions you also get deadlines. At the end of the 'deadline' the auto makers are supposed to have such and such in production or pay a penalty. Enter stage hybrids. A lot of us already knew batteries weren't the answer back then and I am unconvinced that the heads of the auto makers thought differently. But as you probably already realized with non-profits, its pretty easy to shuffle things around.

    If you have a hybrid, start taking a log of every time you fill up, how much you put in, and the odometer reading... I do this on my cars out of habit and its pretty interesting looking back regardless. (which is how I know the Geo's MPG from 10 years ago first hand) Then get your sticker with the EPA rating back and I swear you'll find some interesting tidbits of realistic information about hybrids. Or just go to consumer reports, car and driver or actually get the EPA data itself. I know its available because I got it and used that as my data set for my semester project in a stats class back in college. If you look for yourself at the EPA data you'll probably have the same questions I had... How did you get to this number on the sticker?

    I don't know how to put too fine a point on Hybrids other than stating what they are. And they are the "failed ••••••• child of the ever promised all electric vehicle for the 21st century".
    Last edited by DustSmoke; 03-31-2007 at 04:58 AM.
    http://dustsmoke.com/images/dustsmoke_logo.gif

  12. #12
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    Re: It looks like Prius drivers may be the biggest polluters of all.

    Quote Originally Posted by DustSmoke View Post
    You know whats even more sad than that?

    You can go buy an all gas combustion 1990 Geo Metro and get 58mpg freeway. Mine got 61 and about 55 towards the end of its life... But who's counting.... I'll let everybody else buy those hybrids.

    If you really want to know more about what these hybrids are and why we have them. Read back into the 90's and the attempts to make an eco friendly all electric car. I'm sure a lot of you already remember all that back then. Well just like Bush did with Hydrogen based funding a few years ago we did the same thing over a decade ago. But to agree with the terms and to get the billions you also get deadlines. At the end of the 'deadline' the auto makers are supposed to have such and such in production or pay a penalty. Enter stage hybrids. A lot of us already knew batteries weren't the answer back then and I am unconvinced that the heads of the auto makers thought differently. But as you probably already realized with non-profits, its pretty easy to shuffle things around.

    If you have a hybrid, start taking a log of every time you fill up, how much you put in, and the odometer reading... I do this on my cars out of habit and its pretty interesting looking back regardless. (which is how I know the Geo's MPG from 10 years ago first hand) Then get your sticker with the EPA rating back and I swear you'll find some interesting tidbits of realistic information about hybrids. Or just go to consumer reports, car and driver or actually get the EPA data itself. I know its available because I got it and used that as my data set for my semester project in a stats class back in college. If you look for yourself at the EPA data you'll probably have the same questions I had... How did you get to this number on the sticker?

    I don't know how to put too fine a point on Hybrids other than stating what they are. And they are the "failed ••••••• child of the ever promised all electric vehicle for the 21st century".
    The prius is rated at 60/51. My dad gets anywhere between 48 and 50. Quite a few number on priuschat get around 55. The average for the car is 48. That is pretty close to epa numbers. You just need to know how to drive the car.
    Just walk up to a girl and say "If you were x^2 I'd wanna be (1/3)x^3 cause I'd be the area under your curves." -salutethyshorts

  13. #13
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    Re: It looks like Prius drivers may be the biggest polluters of all.

    Blaming the Prius for the enviromental disaster that is Sudbury, Ontario is a stretch.

    Sounds like an article written by an oil exec to get more people driving the big SUV again.
    Nuke em'.

  14. #14
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    Re: It looks like Prius drivers may be the biggest polluters of all.

    Quote Originally Posted by nark View Post
    The prius is rated at 60/51. My dad gets anywhere between 48 and 50. Quite a few number on priuschat get around 55. The average for the car is 48. That is pretty close to epa numbers. You just need to know how to drive the car.
    Its not clear if the 48 mpg you're touting is in place of the 60 or 51, but if its the 60, that's a healthy 20% smack in the arse. Either way, as usual, the numbers err in the wrong direction, meaning they're padded to peddle a product. Suckers.

    And... needing to know "how to drive the car", means what, exactly? How to get it to scoot around a corner quickly, or how to save gas? We know the answer to the save gas schtick... throw fun out the window and drive live a puss.

    Take my comments tongue in cheek, 'cause I think the Prius is a con job. I know it makes environmentally consious people who own them feel like they're "doing their part", but I think its a big-arsed PR stunt.

  15. #15
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    Re: It looks like Prius drivers may be the biggest polluters of all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    Its not clear if the 48 mpg you're touting is in place of the 60 or 51, but if its the 60, that's a healthy 20% smack in the arse. Either way, as usual, the numbers err in the wrong direction, meaning they're padded to peddle a product. Suckers.

    thats combined city and hwy. But then again, I dont know of any car (perhaps diesel) that gets the EPA estimates. Plus, the EPA estimates are calculated the same for all cars. Theres a standard, google it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    And... needing to know "how to drive the car", means what, exactly? How to get it to scoot around a corner quickly, or how to save gas? We know the answer to the save gas schtick... throw fun out the window and drive live a puss.
    it means pressing on the gas lightly, not flooring it. It also means let the car coast to a stop if possible. Keep it easy on the brakes, as the batteries are partly charged this way. And why did you come to the notation that driving a prius (or any hybrid for that matter) is not fun? Why is it that the customer satisfaction for a prius is one of the highest for any car? Oh let me guess.... its all a "big-arsed PR stunt"......riiiighttt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    Take my comments tongue in cheek, 'cause I think the Prius is a con job. I know it makes environmentally consious people who own them feel like they're "doing their part", but I think its a big-arsed PR stunt
    What led you to that conclusion? Let me guess, you probably drive a ford expedition or a GM Sierra with a ~300 hp engine that you need to get from 0 to 60 in 6 seconds instead of 7 or 8....
    Just walk up to a girl and say "If you were x^2 I'd wanna be (1/3)x^3 cause I'd be the area under your curves." -salutethyshorts

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