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  1. #76
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    Im not gonna get stressed over it yet. Still several steps for the deal to become a law.

    At this point? I think its pie in the sky thinking.
    Like government will suddenly be able to locate 12 million folks.....and Im sure theyll all line up to get into a $5,000 fine. Yeah. Right.
    So it becomes another unenforceable deal that for me = amnesty.

    recall

    Two of the key players in the talks from each end of the political spectrum, Sen. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., and Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, walked away from the deal before it was announced.


    -------------------

    Mark at nro has this to say. Granted hes a tough one on Immigration...but hes hardly nuts.

    "Amnesty Was Already Going to Happen Regardless" [Mark Krikorian]

    JPod: Your correspondent's observation that conservatives have to cut a deal because otherwise the Dems would force an amnesty accurately reflects the thinking in some Senate offices, but is baloney nonetheless. If the Dems really could do that, they wouldn't mess around trying to get Jon Kyl on board, because the president will sign any amnesty bill that reaches his desk. And even if they could pass an amnesty with only Democratic votes, we should dare them to do so, and them attack them for the "Nancy Pelosi, San Francisco Democrat amnesty" next election — which is precisely what they fear, which is why they're begging us to protect them from the voters' ire. I don't remember seeing that in the job description of a Republican politician.

    When faced with a strong opponent, you can either follow Petain or DeGaulle. Kyl and Chambliss and Isakson have chosen Petain — I choose DeGaulle.
    05/19 06:47 PM

    With Enemies Like This, the Dems Don't Need Friends [Mark Krikorian]

    "The President's Job Approval has fallen to the lowest level ever recorded by Rasmussen Reports. ... The President's ratings have tumbled each time immigration reform dominates the news." As Mickey Kaus puts it, "Using advanced, high-tech tools, Karl Rove has found the last pocket of support for Bush and destroyed it with laser-like efficiency."
    05/19 06:47 PM
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 05-19-2007 at 07:00 PM.

  2. #77
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    From above article:

    The President’s ratings have tumbled each time immigration reform dominates the news. While the President advocates a “comprehensive” reform focused primarily on legalizing the status of illegal aliens, our most recent survey shows that most voters favor an enforcement first policy. Last year, following a nationally televised Presidential Address on immigration, just 39% of Americans agreed with the President’s position.

    Huh? No this can't be true! Everyone I know thinks the borders should just be opened up and all illegal aliens should get full amnesty. Vive La Presidente Bush!
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

    Edmund Burke

    RIP PCPER TLR
    7-14-19

  3. #78
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    Mission Impossible [Mark Steyn]

    Like Andy, I'm not a "restrictionist". I believe in efficient, secure legal immigration. But, having been through the system myself, I found this a bit of a jaw-dropper:
    Section 601(h) Treatment of Applicants
    (1) IN GENERAL —An alien who files application for Z-nonimmigrant status shall, upon submission of any evidence required under paragraphs (f) and (g) and after the Secretary has conducted appropriate background checks, to include name and fingerprint checks, that have not by the end of the next business day produced information rendering the applicant ineligible
    (A) be granted probationary benefits in the form of employment authorization pending final adjudication of the alien's application;
    B) may in the Secretary's discretion receive advance permission to re-enter the United States pursuant to existing regulations governing advance parole;
    (C) may not be detained for immigration purposes, determined inadmissible or deportable, or removed pending final adjudication of the alien's application, unless the alient is determined to be ineligible for Z nonimmigration status; and
    (D) may not be considered an unauthorized alien (as defined in Section 274A(h)(3) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1324a(h)(3))) unless employment authorization under subparagraph (A) is denied.
    Is that This-background-check-will-self-destruct-in-24-hours clause for real? If the entire "undocumented" population of, say, Falls Church, Virginia wanders into the local immigration office at 4pm on Monday, the clerks have got till 5pm on Tuesday to find anything on the guys or they've got no choice but to issue the Z visa? For the agency that takes the best part of a decade to process nanny applications and which sent Mohammed Atta his visa six months after he'd died, this is, to say the least, a massive cultural change.
    If the 24-hour dry-cleaner standard were to be mandated for every government agency, I might reconsider my position. But it seems curious, to put it at its mildest, that only the lucky members of the Undocumented-American community will get to enjoy the benefits of express service from the US government.

  4. #79
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    I havent gotten this far in my reading. But this gets at my doubts about actually enforcing this mess.

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa...al_immigrants/


    ^^anyone else want to sign up and get a special visa?

    Or put another way

    Whenever folks use this "living in the shadows" line, they assume that these 12-20-30 million people all have a burning desire to move out of the shadows and live under the klieg lights of officialdom. But, in fact, if you wanted to construct the perfect arrangement for modern life, it would be to acquire:
    a) just enough of an official identity to be able to function - open bank accounts, etc - and to access free education and health care; but
    b) not enough of an official identity to attract the attentions of the IRS and the other less bountiful agencies of the state.
    The present "undocumented" network structures provide this. For these Z visas to "work" (in Washington terms), they have to be attractive enough to draw sufficient numbers out of "the shadows". Right now, "living in the shadows" is a pretty good deal. Somerset Maugham famously called Monte Carlo a sunny place full of shady people. Undocumented America is a shady place full of sunny people.
    Instead of attempting to draw the undocumented out of the shadows, it might be fairer to allow the rest of us to "live in the shadows", too. My suggestion is that, on the day this bill comes into effect, all 300 million US citizens and legal residents should apply for a Z visa.
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 05-20-2007 at 12:00 PM.

  5. #80
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    I know a lot of you aren't Hugh Hewitt fans, but he seems to be doing a pretty good job of cutting through the legal mumbo-jumbo in this bill here:
    http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/

    This comment kinda confirms my earlier thoughts after reading through the first bunch of pages:
    A close read of Title I gives the impression that the drafters understood they'd be better off exhausting the reader with promises and declarations of good intentions before getting to the provisions of consequence.

  6. #81
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    ^^Agree Dutch. I read part 3 earlier.

    4 is up now

    http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/g/7c7...b-0a2b3df05ff4
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 05-20-2007 at 02:03 PM.

  7. #82
    Fluff n Stuff's Avatar
    Fluff n Stuff is offline ♫♪♫♪♪♫♪♫♫♪♫♪♪♫♪♫♪♪
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal and such View Post
    My suggestion is that, on the day this bill comes into effect, all 300 million US citizens and legal residents should apply for a Z visa.
    Hmmm.... I wonder. If a U.S. Citizen who is 'on the lamb' were to apply for a Z-Visa under a new name, would the Feds grant them a new identity?

    Hmmm....



  8. #83
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    ^^^ zimj enterprises?

  9. #84
    Fluff n Stuff's Avatar
    Fluff n Stuff is offline ♫♪♫♪♪♫♪♫♫♪♫♪♪♫♪♫♪♪
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    ^^^ zimj enterprises?
    DiegoZ Enterprises, I think...



  10. #85
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]




    Advocate, conman and part time bush butt-boy…^^^ Click


  11. #86
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    Summary Of The Fine Print Read
    Posted by Hugh Hewitt | 4:02 PM
    I have spent a lot of my weekend reading the draft immigration reform bill as was requested by both Jon Kyl and Tony Snow, and not just of me, but of all critics. Here are the relevant posts in order of their appearance:
    Part 1
    Part 2
    Part 3
    Part 4
    Part 5
    Part 6
    Part 7
    Part 8
    There are so many problems with this bill that it should not be introduced in the Senate absent a period of open hearings on it and the solicitation of expert opinion from various analysts across the ideological spectrum. Even were it somehow to improbably make its way to the president's desk, if it does so before these problems are aired and confronted, the Congress would be inviting a monumental distrust of the institution. There is simply too much here to say "Trust us," and move on. The jam down of such a far reaching measure, drafted in secret and very difficult for laymen much less lawyers to read, is fundamentally inconsistent with how we govern ourselves.

  12. #87
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    I was born in France on an American military base to an American soldier and a French mother.I had no rights in this country till my 16th birthday,when I became a naturalized citizen.Had to go to the fed building and swear the oath and pass the test.Had to do the whole rigamarol for a number of years.When i see the tons of illegals come here just over the border and squat out a legal citizen,usually at the taxpayers expense I get positively homicidal.My family cant get free healthcare in an emergency.$650 a pop in the emergency room,yet an illegal can get everything they want,evidently.
    And im paying for that too with my tax money.We have an illegal clown house in our neighborhood.4 families evidently bought a house and from the 10 cars they park around the house,and everyone elses house,they all live there.Property values WERE up to $675,000 in the area,mine at $695,000,I dont even want to know what the value is now.
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  13. #88
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    This is worth a bookmark as a reference

    http://truthlaidbear.com/immigrationbill0518.php?page=1

  14. #89
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    Been reading HH's shakedown on this bill.. the more I read.. the more I wanna choke the livin sh*t outta someone.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  15. #90
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]




    I cant find alot of fault with what he says

    http://www2.nationalreview.com/dest/...entforleah.mp3
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 05-21-2007 at 02:05 PM.

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