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  1. #91
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]


  2. #92
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    Senate puts off immigration action

  3. #93
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal View Post
    Senate puts off immigration action
    ... and JimZ enterprises runs out of Links. Film at Eleven!



  4. #94
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluff n Stuff View Post
    ... and JimZ enterprises runs out of Links. Film at Eleven!
    Sorry about that. It was from Matt Drudge's joint[the headline/usually they link]

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070522/D8P960OG1.html

  5. #95
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    Among the first changes to be debated will be a proposal by Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., to shrink the temporary worker program created by the compromise plan. Some lawmakers in both parties consider the initiative, which would provide at least 400,000 guest worker visas annually, too large.

    Others charge it's impractical and unfair to immigrants, because it would allow them to stay only temporarily in the U.S. without guaranteeing them a chance to gain legal status.
    Yeah, I could snipe all day at this junk, but some things just jump off the page as being so incredibly schtupid, it makes one want to scream. Here we have some of our elected Senators not liking part of a guest worker program, because it only allows the workers to be guests.

    Its just mind boggling. I'd love to see these goofs go back and read the Senate bill from 1986 and declare which parts of this new bill are "do-overs" and which parts of the old bill were never acted on.

    And about that fence.

  6. #96
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    I think the "Guest Worker" thing is a REALLY bad idea... if we want 'em to come work here, grant 'em a green card. Let everybody you let into the Country come in under the same rules, have the same opportunities, be part of the same culture.

    Creating a second official culture will only backfire in the end, as folks SEE how rich the country is, and are told that they cannot participate. MS13, AlQueda, other criminal groups... they'll all have very fertile recruiting grounds from folks who know in their hearts that they too have been granted these inalienable rights by their Creator... but that Congress had decided they weren't good enough. They'll just decide to take it by force.

    That kind of criminal activity will always be a problem, but an official underclass will ruin our Nation.



  7. #97
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    ^^Dutch's comment. The fence. Recall the big deal last year? Best info I can find is only two miles of it have been constructed.
    But with this new iniative? We can take the promises of the crooks.
    Theyll really follow thru this time.
    Promise.[implied rolleyes]

  8. #98
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    Amnesty Fraud
    A political solution destined to create bigger problems.

    By Thomas Sowell

    Nothing is more common than political “solutions” to immediate problems which create much bigger problems down the road. The current immigration bill in the Senate is a classic example. The big talking point of those who want to legalize the illegal immigrants currently in the United States is to say that it is “unrealistic” to round up and deport 12 million people


    Back in 1986 it was “unrealistic” to round up and deport the three million illegal immigrants in the United States then. So they were given amnesty — honestly labeled, back then — which is precisely why there are now 12 million illegal immigrants.
    As a result of the current amnesty bill — not honestly labeled this time — will it be “unrealistic” to round up and deport 40 million or 50 million illegal immigrants in the future?
    If the current immigration bill is as “realistic” as its advocates claim, why is it being rushed through the Senate faster than a local zoning ordinance could be passed?
    We are, after all, talking about a major and irreversible change in the American population, the American culture, and the American political balance. Why is there no time to talk about it?
    Are its advocates afraid that the voting public might discover what a fraud it is? The biggest fraud is denying that this is an amnesty bill.
    Its advocates’ argument is that illegal immigrants will have to meet certain requirements to become citizens. But amnesty is not about how you become a citizen.
    The word is from the same root as “amnesia.” It means you forget or overlook some crime, as if it never happened. All this elaborate talk about the steps illegal immigrants must go through to become citizens is a distraction from the crime they committed when they crossed the border illegally.
    Instead, all attention is focused on what to do to accommodate those who committed this crime. It is a question that would be recognized as an insult to our intelligence on any other issue.
    For example, there are undoubtedly thousands, perhaps millions, of unsolved crimes and uncaught criminals in this country, and we cannot realistically expect to find and prosecute all these fugitives from justice.
    But does anyone suggest that our focus should be on trying to normalize the lives of domestic fugitives from justice — “bring them out of the shadows” in Ted Kennedy’s phrase — and develop some path by which they can be given an acceptable legal status?
    Does anyone suggest that, if domestic criminals come forward, pay some fine, and apply to have their crimes overlooked, they can be put on a path to be restored to good standing in our society?
    Just as we don’t need to solve every crime and catch every criminal in order to have deterrents to crime, neither do we have to ferret out and deport every one of the 12 million illegal aliens in this country in order to deter a flood of new illegal aliens.
    All across this country, illegal aliens are being caught by the police for all sorts of violations of American laws, from traffic laws to laws against murder. Yet in many, if not most, places the police are under orders not to report these illegal aliens to the federal government.
    Imprisoning known and apprehended lawbreakers for the crime of illegally entering this country (in addition to whatever other punishment they receive for other laws that they have broken) and then sending them back where they came from after their sentences have been served would be something that would not be lost on others who are here illegally or who are thinking of coming here illegally.
    Just as people can do many things better for themselves than the government can do those things for them, illegal aliens could begin deporting themselves if they found that their crime of coming here illegally was being punished as a serious crime, and that they themselves were no longer being treated as guests of the taxpayers when it comes to their medical care, the education of their children, and other welfare-state benefits.
    Incidentally, remember that 700-mile fence that Congress authorized last year? Only two miles have been built. That should tell us something about how seriously they are going to enforce other border-security provisions in the current bill.

  9. #99
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    There are plenty of things in this bill that we can find fault with, but one thing just keeps rising to the top. It legitimizes and in truth, rewards, the sneaking into the United States.

    I came here from Holland, along with two of my brothers, Mom and Dad. Mom and Dad planned for a few years before crossing the Atlantic. Both of them spent a lot of time learning English and other stuff related to the United States and Canada. We had three hundred bucks when we got to Vancouver. We lived in Canada for a few years before getting permission to immigrate to the United States. Dad had a job lined up before we left Canada. The whole process took something like five years. It was a major commitment. Once here, our family NEVER dipped into the government assistance dole. But we did have help... from fellow Dutch friends and the Dutch Christian Reformed Church.

    Our politicians want to erase the challenge to foreigners of the same ilk and replace them with people who would rather ask for forgiveness instead of permission. I don't blame the border sneaks for doing what they're doing, but our politicians are really missing the point and I'm really irked by their grandiose plans to "solve" the problem with a solution that does little more than create a number of new problems while keeping the existing problem intact.

    What we're missing is how important it should be to keep the process of immigration rather difficult. It should be a challenge that requires some quality effort on the immigrant's part. It should not be just a "go there and see what happens" kinda deal, but that's exactly what our idiot politicians are making it into.

    I would like to see a plan that broadens the scope of legitimate immigrants by maybe three or four fold. On the flip side, one that stops the "let's go try it and see" folks dead in their tracks.

    Here's my plan... any politician who supports this crap loses my vote. Border security first advocates get my vote. Dang, I wish I could vote more often.

  10. #100
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    An interesting four part article, with some real background work done, describing how the sneakers crossing the southern border aren't all what they seem to be: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/met...e.359e190.html

    And some more breaking news on the fence...
    Border Patrol: No border fence in Texas until 2008
    James Osborne
    May 21, 2007 - 6:41PM


    McALLEN — Seventy miles of border fence will be built by the end of the year, but none of it in Texas, U.S. Border Patrol Chief David Aguilar told local officials on Monday.

    “One 34-mile section will be built in Arizona in the Barry M. Goldwater range (a U.S. military artillery range in the southwest corner of that state),” he said.

    “Several other chunks will be built in New Mexico, California and in other parts of Arizona. They’re seeing a combination of illegal incursions, and we will address these areas of vulnerability first.”

    The rest of the 370 miles of proposed fence, which includes 135 miles in Texas, is still in the design phase but won’t be built until the end of 2008, the nation’s top border patrol official said.

    Aguilar’s comments came three weeks after a U.S. Department of Homeland Security map laying out the future sites of the fence was leaked to the media, infuriating local officials up and down the border who said they’d been left out of the loop.

    Since that time, Border Patrol and other federal agencies have called the map “preliminary” and participated in a series of public information sessions assuring leaders they will have a say when it comes to construction of the fence.

    Aguilar was speaking on Monday during a Washington-based video conference U.S. Rep. Henry Cuellar, D-Laredo, transmitted to his McAllen and Laredo offices, where local city officials and business people, as well as Border Patrol representatives participated.

    Aguilar also addressed a recent report from the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service that estimates a 370-mile fence would cost between $6 billion and $25.9 billion over a 25-year period.

    “The numbers we’re working with are a lot less,” Aguilar said. “As we go forward, cost is one of the factors we’re considering.”
    It makes you wonder how they ever establish a perimeter around penetentiaries...

    And do some quick math... the estimates for the cost of these fences range between $3,070. and $13,250 per FOOT!!!

    DiegoZ Enterprises better get crackin' on that grubberment contractor paperwork...

  11. #101
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    Diego Z is at your service...and examanig these estimates.

    "Aguilar also addressed a recent report from the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service that estimates a 370-mile fence would cost between $6 billion and $25.9 billion over a 25-year period."

    DiegoZ likes math. Juicy cost per mile. I could pay an armed guard every 3' and pay him 50,000 a year and beat the high end.

    What...something on the order of >80+ million a mile?
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 05-22-2007 at 10:24 PM.

  12. #102
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    Well... there's one more repug I can agree with on this issue..

    Boehner: Immigration Bill Is "Piece Of Sh*t"

    May 23, 2007
    Boehner: Immigration Bill Is "Piece Of Shit"

    House Minority Leader John Boehner, speaking to a private gathering of Republican activists last night, called the Senate's immigration compromise bill a "piece of shit" but said that he had promised President Bush earlier in the day that he would let his teeth be a barrier to such thoughts in public.

    Boehner spoke last night at a small reception for the Republican Rapid Responders on Capitol Hill.

    "I promised the President today that I wouldn't say anything bad about ... this piece of shit bill," he said, according to two attendees.

    Earlier in the day, Boehner released a statement saying that "The Senate agreement appears to recognize that additional border security measures and more effective immigration law enforcement must come before any other issues are addressed, but I have significant concerns about parts of the Senate proposal -- particularly provisions that would reward illegal immigrants who have consistently broken our laws."

    A senior Republican official said yesterday that while the chances of the bill, which opens pathways to citizenship for most of the U.S.'s 12 million illegal immigrants, are "50/50" in the House and that the White House would spend its time lobbying Democrats, rather than Republicans, to achieve a majority.

    Yesterday, the Senate beat back an amendment by Sen. Byron Dorgan that would have scrapped the bill's new guest worker program. The defeat of that effort was interpreted as a sign that a solid majority of Senators are prepared to support the bill's main tenets, for now.

    What happens when they hear from constituents over Memorial Day is unknown and unknowable.

    A Boehner spokesman was not able to comment.

    Boehner's tendency towards candor occasionally irks his staff, a fact that Boehner brought up with last night's audience. In 2006, Boehner called an idea put forth by then. Sen. Maj. Leader Bill Frist to provide Americans with a $100 rebate on gasoline "stupid." [MARC AMBINDER]
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  13. #103
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post



    What we're missing is how important it should be to keep the process of immigration rather difficult. It should be a challenge that requires some quality effort on the immigrant's part. It should not be just a "go there and see what happens" kinda deal, but that's exactly what our idiot politicians are making it into.
    Exactly. When it's far, far easier to sneak into the US illegally than it is to sneak into Disney World, there's a huge problem. On that subject, why did Disney ever even put up a fence around his place? Everyone knows it doesn't stop anyone from getting in right?
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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  14. #104
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    Earlier in the day, Boehner released a statement saying that "The Senate agreement appears to recognize that additional border security measures and more effective immigration law enforcement must come before any other issues are addressed, but I have significant concerns about parts of the Senate proposal -- particularly provisions that would reward illegal immigrants who have consistently broken our laws."
    That (for some reason) gave me an idea... Let's make a provision that we'll only grant one of these XYZ-Visas to illegal immigrants who can prove who their illegal employer was! Seems to me we take these illegal employers out of the equation we'll actually get somewhere. Because these employers who knowing hire illegal aliens are every bit as much of the problem as the illegal aliens.
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  15. #105
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    Re: The Senate's "Grand Bargin" [Immigration Debate]

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal View Post
    DiegoZ likes math. Juicy cost per mile. I could pay an armed guard every 3' and pay him 50,000 a year and beat the high end.

    What...something on the order of >80+ million a mile?
    Yea, we're pretty much FUBAR now. Lol, if only we had a few million people around (maybe even 12 million) that are good at building fences and cheap too.
    Last edited by kbohip; 05-23-2007 at 03:10 PM.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

    Edmund Burke

    RIP PCPER TLR
    7-14-19

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