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  1. #46
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    Re: "Dictatorship of Idiots" triumphs over experience

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Read what I said and quit pulling words out of your butt.

    What I said is in the business world you can’t be mediocre and expect to succeed. In many parts of academia you can be mediocre and do just fine because in my opinion there is not enough peer pressure to cause failure.
    Quite the contrary, IMO. Do you know anyone with a doctorate? I actually talked with one professor for a good while about this sort of thing and the world of academia is extremely cutthroat, just like business. You've got to stay on top of your game to even have a shot at making a name for yourself. Peers will eat you alive. Consider also, outside pressure from universities, government officials, etc... Duke and Stanford don't pay guys with PhD's to play Tic Tac Toe all day. It all goes back to the dollar bill and the reputation which commands the dollar bill. Blogger hobbyists don't have this sort of pressure and have no reason to maintain standards.

    But hey, even if you are right-- I'd rather be mediocre than completely wrong and misleading.

    Speaking of little gems that one is a perfect example. Have you read the NY Times lately or the Washington Post? Have you watched any of the major networks or the big three cable networks? The quality of most of the journalists is far below par. Many of them are obviously biased and will write or say anything to push their agenda. That has been proven over and over again. Many of them flat don’t care about quality and reputation.
    All journalism is biased.

    What is "par"? Is par maintained by Wikipedia editors, wacky activist bloggers, and 12 year olds with a handle on an Internet forum? Who gets closest to par, as a collective-- journalists or Internet amateurs?

    I agree that newspapers and the media in general are biased and leave a lot to be desired-- but really, the blogosphere is no different, even worse actually.

    If want to have academia or so-called experts as your only source of information that is your prerogative. It certainly isn’t mine…
    I never said that, I just said that I'd trust one expert on a topic before I would 100 Wikipedia monkeys like myself. I don't ask my mom and my next door neighbor about my car, I consult experts (like a Haynes manual, an auto shop, etc).



    Consider this everyone: Do you know why our country is a democratic republic? Because our Founding Fathers did not want citizens making governmental decisions themselves (I guess they must have been elitist). Instead, they elect officials who (in theory) stay informed on these topics and make collective decisions that are the best for the country.

    Now, I know that politicians leave a lot to be desired-- but does the average American really know the first thing about big, serious decisions that need to be made, and can average Americans make big decisions like how to spend money or what policies and laws to set? The Founding Fathers didn't think so.

    Likewise, we as average people do have a voice in the world, but we entrust the expertise of knowledgeable people in a certain area to write about their topics. People like to say things like "journalism is being democratized", and that's a good thing if democracy and "elitists" can coexist as they do in government...but not a good thing if experts are being silenced by non-experts.

    What if pro directors stopped making movies because YouTube is so wonderful that nobody needs Spielberg anymore? YouTube is fun, but can you honestly tell me that a few B-movie-grade skits can replace professional cinema? Hey, Joe Video Camera can make a better flick than Spielberg...nobody needs directors anymore...
    Last edited by JungleMan; 06-04-2007 at 08:33 PM.
    PORTABLE: Intel Core 2 Duo P8600 2.4GHz | 4GB PC6400 DDR2 | 160GB 7200rpm HDD | ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4570 | 8x DVD±RW/Blu-Ray | 15.6" UltraSharp TrueLife display

  2. #47
    Joined
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    8,887

    Re: "Dictatorship of Idiots" triumphs over experience

    Good points, Jungle.
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  3. #48
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    Re: "Dictatorship of Idiots" triumphs over experience

    I think the problem is the topic is too broad. It needs to be broken down into categories. In this forum we generally talk about politics and all things political in nature.

    With that in mind I want to be able to express my opinion and be able to hear the opinions of everybody. I don’t want academia or experts to have the only say in things that directly affect my life or that of my family.

    In that sense academia and the experts only wish they could control everything. The fact is the average joe is what makes this country what it is today and what is has been since the very beginning. Right now we aren’t doing a particularly good job. The experts we have put in charge are miserable failures.

    By the way JM I know some very intelligent people that are highly educated, some family members and some friends. Actually all of them are modest in nature and are the first to say they aren’t experts in anything other than their particular field.
    Last edited by tucker; 06-04-2007 at 09:24 PM.

  4. #49
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    Twain Harte, CA
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    Re: "Dictatorship of Idiots" triumphs over experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangutan View Post
    ...What the hell? I am more educated on the subject than most people who "disagree with evolution". That doesn't make it "elitist", that makes it true. Jesus. You know more about architecture than the laity. According to your logic, that makes you "elitist".
    Were I to tell my clients that because I know more about architecture than they do, that makes their opinions moot, you would have a point (that's in effect what you're putting forward here). To be honest, some of my clients give me a lot of free reign and I can certainly get cocky about opinions... in those cases, yeah, there's some seriously elitist attitudes going on, whether they're "right" or not.

  5. #50
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    Re: "Dictatorship of Idiots" triumphs over experience

    Quote Originally Posted by JungleMan View Post
    Consider this everyone: Do you know why our country is a democratic republic? Because our Founding Fathers did not want citizens making governmental decisions themselves (I guess they must have been elitist). Instead, they elect officials who (in theory) stay informed on these topics and make collective decisions that are the best for the country.

    Now, I know that politicians leave a lot to be desired-- but does the average American really know the first thing about big, serious decisions that need to be made, and can average Americans make big decisions like how to spend money or what policies and laws to set? The Founding Fathers didn't think so.
    No shit. I might not have a college education but I am not an idiot, consider that.

    The trouble is the politicians of today now think the average joe is here to serve them. They have lost the concept of a government of the people, by the people and for the people. Take a good look at that POS illegal immigration legislation and that should be enough to convince anybody.

    Don’t ever talk down to me I deserve better than that…
    Last edited by tucker; 06-04-2007 at 10:47 PM.

  6. #51
    Joined
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    Re: "Dictatorship of Idiots" triumphs over experience

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    In that sense academia and the experts only wish they could control everything.
    Dude, nobody's trying to seize free speech away from the people. It's just that 10 years ago, the Internet and media were dominated by people who, for the most part, know what they're doing (whether they have good intentions, are biased, etc is not part of the equation...as those can apply to anyone).

    Today we have a plethora of information available, which is GREAT, but we need to keep in mind that since the barrier to entry is so low, that means there is a potential for a lot more misinformation and inaccurate/misleading/low-quality coverage than before, simply because there are more people who think they are qualified to write on a topic that are not. If this user-contributed info can coexist with and supplement professional writing, great, but when it starts to overtake and push out professional media/writers (as illustrated with the Britannica case...tell me those guys aren't smarter than the Wikipedia monkeys) is when it becomes a dangerous, unbridled tool of destruction. A "dictatorship of idiots" who level the playing field to a degree that the opinions of experts are buried in the mish-mash of the average Joe.

    By the way JM I know some very intelligent people that are highly educated, some family members and some friends. Actually all of them are modest in nature and are the first to say they aren’t experts in anything other than their particular field.
    I never said they were. I am not an expert in microbiology, just as Dr. Phil is not an expert on frogs, and Stephen Hawking is not an expert on automotive tuning. But they don't write about, or claim to know about, those topics either.

    What I am saying is, it is crucial that we as a collective community acknowledge the experts' knowledge in the topics that they DO know about, and keep their opinions and findings in higher regard than you would dubious and not-so-thorough "Web 2.0" sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    No shit. I might not have a college education but I am not an idiot, consider that.

    The trouble is the politicians of today now think the average joe is here to serve them. They have lost the concept of a government of the people, by the people and for the people. Take a good look at that POS illegal immigration legislation and that should be enough to convince anybody.

    Don’t ever talk down to me I deserve better than that…
    Dude, chill out. I wasn't talking to you only, I purposely spaced that paragraph away from my dialogue with you to distinguish it, and used the word "everybody" to denote that I was opening up a side topic for discussion by all. Besides, I wasn't implying that anyone was stupid or uneducated, I was just likening the example of our government to show that what you call "elitism" is actually what our country is based on.

    BTW, I 100% agree with you on the immigration legislation.
    Last edited by JungleMan; 06-04-2007 at 11:29 PM.
    PORTABLE: Intel Core 2 Duo P8600 2.4GHz | 4GB PC6400 DDR2 | 160GB 7200rpm HDD | ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4570 | 8x DVD±RW/Blu-Ray | 15.6" UltraSharp TrueLife display

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