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  1. #46
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    Re: Palestinian |Hamas | Fatah | Gaza |West Bank |

    ^- Thats been the problem far more then the big 2 factions.

  2. #47
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    Oregon
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    Re: Palestinian |Hamas | Fatah | Gaza |West Bank |

    I'm not sure what I really think of this.

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/...net/index.html

    But apprently we are now giving money to the terrorists again....

  3. #48
    Joined
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    Re: Palestinian |Hamas | Fatah | Gaza |West Bank |

    I hear that. I guess we figire hes our buddy. A more "moderate" terrorist.
    Sort of.
    I guess the reasong goes that at least were talking with him and he has indeed managed to have an ongoing relationship with Israel.
    Outlawing Hamas was a good move in that direction.[ he outlawed Hamas in West Bank]

  4. #49
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    Re: Palestinian |Hamas | Fatah | Gaza |West Bank |

    I think the better idea is to lend air support... to both sides. But we all know eventually Israel will get sucked back into this and blamed anyway.

    Israel plans attack on Gaza

    ISRAEL’s new defence minister Ehud Barak is planning an attack on Gaza within weeks to crush the Hamas militants who have seized power there.

    According to senior Israeli military sources, the plan calls for 20,000 troops to destroy much of Hamas’s military capability in days.

    The raid would be triggered by Hamas rocket attacks against Israel or a resumption of suicide bombings.

    Barak, who is expected to become defence minister tomorrow, has already demanded detailed plans to deploy two armoured divisions and an infantry division, accompanied by assault drones and F-16 jets, against Hamas.

    The Israeli forces would expect to be confronted by about 12,000 Hamas fighters with arms confiscated from the Fatah faction that they defeated in last week’s three-day civil war in Gaza.

    Details of the plan emerged as Fatah forces in the West Bank stormed Hamas-run buildings, including the parliament in Ramallah, where they tried to seize the deputy speaker.

    Israeli officials believe their forces would face even tougher resistance in Gaza than they encountered during last summer’s war against Hezbollah in south Lebanon.

    A source close to Barak said that Israel could not tolerate an aggressive “Hamastan” on its border and an attack seemed unavoidable.

    “The question is not if but how and when,” he said.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  5. #50
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    Re: Palestinian |Hamas | Fatah | Gaza |West Bank |

    Did Anyone Say Double Standards? [Tom Gross]
    If Israelis machine-gunned protesters at a peaceful demonstration, I think we can safely say that the BBC, New York Times, and others would cover it in a major way.
    From Ha'aretz:
    Before noon, two civilians were killed during a protest held in Gaza City under the banner "Stop the Killing." Some 1,000 Palestinians marched in the city, calling for an end to the fighting, but when they approached a Hamas position, militants fired at the protesters, killing two.
    06/18 04:58 PM

  6. #51
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    Re: Palestinian |Hamas | Fatah | Gaza |West Bank |

    ^^Back to Black Dragon post:

    The United States on Monday announced its willingness to resume hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to the new Palestinian government led by President Mahmoud Abbas. Last week, Fatah forces loyal to Abbas were routed in Gaza and the Fatah-Hamas government collapsed. "We are focusing... on helping this new government to find its footing," said Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.


    So? Maybe we have an opening here to be perceived as the "good guys"

    Either us or Iran.

    The real trip in this? Abbas is talking to Israel about help.

    I prefer us.

  7. #52
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    Re: Palestinian |Hamas | Fatah | Gaza |West Bank |

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal View Post
    Did Anyone Say Double Standards? [Tom Gross]
    If Israelis machine-gunned protesters at a peaceful demonstration, I think we can safely say that the BBC, New York Times, and others would cover it in a major way.
    From Ha'aretz:
    Before noon, two civilians were killed during a protest held in Gaza City under the banner "Stop the Killing." Some 1,000 Palestinians marched in the city, calling for an end to the fighting, but when they approached a Hamas position, militants fired at the protesters, killing two.
    06/18 04:58 PM
    No one is "saying" anything. Thank the NY Times/WaPo/LA Times/CNN/CBS/NBC/ABC/MSNBC and of course the AP for doing this best to let the Palestinians keep their victim status. Hamas/Fatwa chucking the opposition off tall buildings... okey... firing on unarmed protesters.. okey.. Israel takes out terrorists with an air-strike.... all front pages charge brutality.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  8. #53
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    74,684

    Re: Palestinian |Hamas | Fatah | Gaza |West Bank |

    via Johnson over at LGF

    As President Bush turns on the money taps for the moderate genocidal Fatah/PLO, our enemies in Saudi Arabia have been sending millions of shekels to Hamas.
    According to two indictments served Monday, millions of shekels have been transferred from a Saudi organization to Hamas operatives in Jerusalem. The money was received as charity although, in reality, it was earmarked for terrorist activities.

    Following a request from the Jerusalem prosecutor’s office, details of the affair were released for publication Monday after the Shin Bet and Police investigation was concluded. Two indictments were served on members of the organizations involved for breaking the law that prohibits funding terrorism.

    The millions of shekels were received from the Charity Coalition – an umbrella organization that encompasses Hamas charitable societies in Saudi Arabia.

    The money was transferred to non-profit organizations in the A-Ram neighborhood of Jerusalem to conceal its final destination – the Hamas movement in the city.

  9. #54
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    Re: Palestinian |Hamas | Fatah | Gaza |West Bank |

    ^^^ just unimaginable BS....it really is time for us to re-evaluate our relationship with the Saudi's....maybe when dumba$$ is out of the WH we can actually look at that relationship a little more objectively.

  10. #55
    Joined
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    74,684

    Re: Palestinian |Hamas | Fatah | Gaza |West Bank |

    Well of course we can again set our watches.
    All this happens? And who is there to bash the US.
    Jimmah

    via Powerline guys

    But Carter wasn't done yet. After his speech, he gave a press conference in which he defended Hamas and attacked the Bush administration for trying to isolate the terrorist group:
    The United States, Israel and the European Union must end their policy of favoring Fatah over Hamas, or they will doom the Palestinian people to deepening conflict between the rival movements, former US President Jimmy Carter said Tuesday. Carter said Hamas, besides winning a fair and democratic mandate that should have entitled it to lead the Palestinian government, had proven itself to be far more organized in its political and military showdowns with the Fatah movement of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas.
    Carter said the American-Israeli-European consensus to reopen direct aid to the new government in the West Bank, but to deny the same to the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, represented an "effort to divide Palestinians into two peoples."
    Most would say it was Hamas that divided the PA in half. Who, one might ask, committed crimes in connection with Hamas's coup? Was it Hamas, who murdered any number of fellow Palestinians in cold blood? Of course not:
    Far from encouraging Hamas's move into parliamentary politics, Carter said the US and Israel, with European Union acquiescence, has sought to subvert the outcome by shunning Hamas and helping Abbas to keep the reins of political and military power. "That action was criminal," he said in a news conference after his speech.
    So there you have it: in the perverse world of Jimmy Carter, the United States is a criminal nation that destroys civil liberties, tortures prisoners and oppresses Palestinians. But the Iran-controlled terrorists of Hamas? No problem.

  11. #56
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    Re: Palestinian |Hamas | Fatah | Gaza |West Bank |

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    ^^^ just unimaginable BS....it really is time for us to re-evaluate our relationship with the Saudi's....maybe when dumba$$ is out of the WH we can actually look at that relationship a little more objectively.
    I agree it's BS. The Saudi's are not our friends.. period. But I see our move to releasing funds to Fatwa as no different. Both parties are terrorist organizations. I say let them thin each others numbers a bit then when the "victor" eventually turns back to attacking Israel... Israel can go in and finish off what's left. It's no urban legend that the Palestinian populace in many areas are longing for Israel rule of law and stability.

    Dumping on GWB as if his relationship or dealings with the Saudis is unique is hardly fair. And... if you think the next president, regardless of party affiliation will do something that no other administration has done in respect to the Saudis I have some bad news for you.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  12. #57
    Joined
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    California
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    25,318

    Re: Palestinian |Hamas | Fatah | Gaza |West Bank |

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  13. #58
    Joined
    May 2002
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    Twain Harte, CA
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    18,621

    Re: Palestinian |Hamas | Fatah | Gaza |West Bank |

    Fatah = Hamas Light.

    Why would we send money to either? So the second can steal the weapons from the first? What a waste of energy and money.

  14. #59
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    Re: Palestinian |Hamas | Fatah | Gaza |West Bank |

    Western Fictions, Arab Realities

    Western Fictions, Arab Realities
    Getting real.

    By Jonah Goldberg

    I have been scouring eBay for the last couple of days, hoping to snag a one-of-a-kind item. But, alas, it hasn’t turned up yet. I’m looking for the late Yasser Arafat’s Nobel Peace Prize. It was looted from Arafat’s Gaza compound by the victorious forces of Hamas, a jihadist group backed by Iran and Syria that has routed the once-mighty forces of Fatah from power in Gaza. According to the Jerusalem Post, a Fatah spokesman added: “They stole all the widow’s clothes and shoes.”

    The widow in question would be Suha Arafat, Yasser Arafat’s photo-op wife. Who can blame the looters for wanting to grab as much of her swag as possible? First of all, she wasn’t using it. Suha hasn’t been to Gaza for years. And her favorite shoe designer is Christian Louboutin, whose wares can fetch about $1,000 a pair, which is more than many Palestinians make in a year.

    But it’s that peace prize, won by Arafat, Shimon Peres, and Yitzhak Rabin for agreeing to the 1993 Oslo accords, that really captures the lunacy of it all. It’s the perfect reminder for everyone, myself included, of the Arabs’ refusal to yield to idealism, hope, or good intentions — and the West’s refusal to recognize reality.

    “The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them which we are missing,” former Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser once said. But from the U.S. point of view, the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Maybe they just don’t want what we’re selling?

    For example, in 2005, Israel simply gave Gaza to the Palestinians. According to the international community’s land-for-peace mantra, a peaceful society should have sprouted like a stalk from Jack’s magic beans. Instead, the Palestinian people voted for a band of Islamic fanatics — even the European Union calls them terrorists, not that it matters much — dedicated to the destruction of Israel. But the diplomacy-uber-alles crowd has long been immune to contrary evidence. Remember when Arafat fanned the second intifada in response to an unprecedented peace offer? Members of the Nobel committee openly talked of revoking the peace prize — from Peres.

    Now, President Bush, the leaders of the EU and the editors of the New York Times all say this is the moment for Israel to offer more concessions to Arafat’s successor, Mahmoud Abbas. So much for the fresh-from-Iraq cliche that it’s pointless to choose sides in a civil war.

    Margaret Beckett, the British foreign secretary, lamented, “Once again, extremists carrying guns have prevented progress against the wishes of the majority who seek a peaceful two-state solution.” But how do you square this with the fact that Hamas, the party promising the destruction of Israel, won the Palestinian elections in 2005? Meanwhile, the leaders of Fatah — the “moderates” — had not long ago set the standard for Israel-hatred themselves.

    The great irony is that Hamas now labels members of Fatah as Jewish “collaborators,” a designation that apparently justifies even the execution of wounded Fatah prisoners in hospitals.

    The German foreign ministry went so far as to suggest that Hamas’s triumph necessitates increasing aid to Gaza because of the hardships Hamas rule will cause. It seems that if you choose terrorism, either at the ballot box or in the streets, the Europeans, like the good hands at Allstate, will be there to pay for the mess.

    But there’s another, perhaps more important, lesson to be drawn from the Hamas ascendancy. The Bush administration pushed for democracy in the Palestinian territories and got what it wished for — in spades. The assumption behind the push for democracy in Gaza and in Iraq is that Arabs can be trusted to handle political freedom. Even the Democrats demanding an immediate pullout from Iraq hope that with democracy, the Iraqis will be able to sort out their problems themselves via some euphemistic “political solution.” That is unless the antiwar Democrats are really advocating turning all of Mesopotamia into one giant Gaza Strip — the far more likely result of U.S. withdrawal.

    For many disciples of the “international peace process,” it’s a matter of faith that the Palestinians just have to want peace, because how else can you have a peace process? For many supporters of the Bush Doctrine, Iraqis have to want democracy, because if they don’t, what’s the point of having a freedom agenda? But what if these are just beloved Western fictions? We see a well-lighted path to the good life: democracy, tolerance, rule of law, markets. But what if the Arab world just isn’t interested in our path? As a believer in the freedom agenda, that’s what scares me most.

    © 2007 Tribune Media Services, Inc.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  15. #60
    Joined
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Montana
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    7,744

    Re: Palestinian |Hamas | Fatah | Gaza |West Bank |

    In answer to Jonah Goldberg, I'd say he should be very afraid.

    The freedom agenda sounds nice, but if the subjects don't want it as much as other forces want to abuse / kill it? Waste of time.
    Tyan S5397 2x X5450 16GB - SuperMicro H8DCI 2x 275 8GB - Iwill DK8X 2x Opteron 250 2GB


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