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  1. #2941
    Joined
    May 2002
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    Twain Harte, CA
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    17,095

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    This is not good...
    WASHINGTON – Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd is moving to allow the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. to temporarily borrow as much as $500 billion from the Treasury Department.

    The Connecticut Democrat’s effort – which comes in response to urging from FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner – would give the FDIC access to more money to rebuild its fund that insures consumers’ deposits, which have been hard hit by a string of bank failures.
    "temporarily borrow"... ya right. And if its used, it will be paid back how, exactly... and by who?

    I read yesterday that the FDIC is going to tag a "one time charge" on all banks to bolster their funds, which have fallen by more than half in one quarter. That was to the tune of about $40 billion. Banks complained that it would wipe out a full year's profits. Can't find the link... should have saved it... sorry.

  2. #2942
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,690

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    This is not good..."temporarily borrow"... ya right. And if its used, it will be paid back how, exactly... and by who?

    I read yesterday that the FDIC is going to tag a "one time charge" on all banks to bolster their funds, which have fallen by more than half in one quarter. That was to the tune of about $40 billion. Banks complained that it would wipe out a full year's profits. Can't find the link... should have saved it... sorry.

    This is a big catch 22. Let FDIC go bust and watch money fly out of banks. It is getting to the point where I am considering putting all of my money in a can in the back yard. Problem is if things go bust will the money be worth anything. Most likely guns and ammo will fetch the best for barter that is if you are not killed for them.
    Last edited by falcon_view; 03-06-2009 at 10:30 AM.

  3. #2943
    Joined
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    74,684

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by falcon_view View Post
    I done a little research and those shares would have had to be purchased prior to 6/72, but the cost average should be lower than $11 with the splits and dividends, then one would have to price in inflation to see where the true cost is. For the price drop cut more than in half from its most resent high is in line with most stocks on average. As we should all know stock price is what someone is willing to give for the stock and these days price in most cases does not reflect the value of the company. For years money has been chasing stocks higher with little reflection to the company value. The most likely reason the price drop is mutual funds being hit by people cashing out and no longer buying shares.
    Yup. All purchased when I worked for 3M back then.
    And yes. I am that old. Im coming up on 62 in the Fall.
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 03-06-2009 at 12:52 PM.

  4. #2944
    Joined
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    74,684

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    How pathetic is this. Billions later...bailout after bailout and the market cap for GM [the aggregate value of common shares outstanding] drops below a billion.

    http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=GM

    Handy comparison that illustrates the point

    http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=HOG
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 03-06-2009 at 01:47 PM.

  5. #2945
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    24,202

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Deception at Core of Obama Plans

    WASHINGTON -- Forget the pork. Forget the waste. Forget the 8,570 earmarks in a bill supported by a president who poses as the scourge of earmarks. Forget the "$2 trillion dollars in savings" that "we have already identified," $1.6 trillion of which President Obama's budget director later admits is the "savings" of not continuing the surge in Iraq until 2019 -- 11 years after George Bush ended it, and eight years after even Bush would have had us out of Iraq completely.

    Forget all of this. This is run-of-the-mill budget trickery. True, Obama's tricks come festooned with strings of zeros tacked onto the end. But that's a matter of scale, not principle.

    All presidents do that. But few undertake the kind of brazen deception at the heart of Obama's radically transformative economic plan, a rhetorical sleight of hand so smoothly offered that few noticed.

    The logic of Obama's address to Congress went like this:

    "Our economy did not fall into decline overnight," he averred. Indeed, it all began before the housing crisis. What did we do wrong? We are paying for past sins in three principal areas: energy, health care, and education -- importing too much oil and not finding new sources of energy (as in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and the Outer Continental Shelf?), not reforming health care, and tolerating too many bad schools.

    The "day of reckoning" has now arrived. And because "it is only by understanding how we arrived at this moment that we'll be able to lift ourselves out of this predicament," Obama has come to redeem us with his far-seeing program of universal, heavily nationalized health care; a cap-and-trade tax on energy; and a major federalization of education with universal access to college as the goal.

    Amazing. As an explanation of our current economic difficulties, this is total fantasy. As a cure for rapidly growing joblessness, a massive destruction of wealth, a deepening worldwide recession, this is perhaps the greatest non sequitur ever foisted upon the American people.

    At the very center of our economic near-depression is a credit bubble, a housing collapse and a systemic failure of the entire banking system. One can come up with a host of causes: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pushed by Washington (and greed) into improvident loans, corrupted bond-ratings agencies, insufficient regulation of new and exotic debt instruments, the easy money policy of Alan Greenspan's Fed, irresponsible bankers pushing (and then unloading in packaged loan instruments) highly dubious mortgages, greedy house-flippers, deceitful homebuyers.

    The list is long. But the list of causes of the collapse of the financial system does not include the absence of universal health care, let alone of computerized medical records. Nor the absence of an industry-killing cap-and-trade carbon levy. Nor the lack of college graduates. Indeed, one could perversely make the case that, if anything, the proliferation of overeducated, Gucci-wearing, smart-ass MBAs inventing ever more sophisticated and opaque mathematical models and debt instruments helped get us into this credit catastrophe in the first place.

    And yet with our financial house on fire, Obama makes clear both in his speech and his budget that the essence of his presidency will be the transformation of health care, education and energy. Four months after winning the election, six weeks after his swearing in, Obama has yet to unveil a plan to deal with the banking crisis.

    What's going on? "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste," said Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. "This crisis provides the opportunity for us to do things that you could not do before."

    Things. Now we know what they are. The markets' recent precipitous decline is a reaction not just to the absence of any plausible bank rescue plan, but also to the suspicion that Obama sees the continuing financial crisis as usefully creating the psychological conditions -- the sense of crisis bordering on fear-itself panic -- for enacting his "Big Bang" agenda to federalize and/or socialize health care, education and energy, the commanding heights of post-industrial society.

    Clever politics, but intellectually dishonest to the core. Health, education and energy -- worthy and weighty as they may be -- are not the cause of our financial collapse. And they are not the cure. The fraudulent claim that they are both cause and cure is the rhetorical device by which an ambitious president intends to enact the most radical agenda of social transformation seen in our lifetime.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  6. #2946
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Crazy AZ USA
    Posts
    3,516

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    You know, there a people who overhear what you say and you have to wonder if they listened. Past a certain point, you realize how close knit you are in an industry, no matter how different and far away your jobs are.

    Such is the case here. Jimz and I talked about it some here and I've talked a lot about it with the leadership in my industry. While it's not exactly what and how I would have said- I'll take it as a start:

    http://www.nata.aero/News.aspx?newsid=110&sectionid=0

    ....
    Some people say it's just politics. Three tin-ear auto executives perhaps needed to be criticized, but why shoot every personal airplane out of the sky? Others say its envy and a new form of class warfare. Don't they understand that not everyone has the same transportation requirements? Buses may be fine for some people to get to work, and bicycles, subways, and taxis for others, but millions of us need personal automobiles to be effective. It's the same with aviation. The airlines don't meet the needs of thousands and thousands of businessmen and women. They need more flexibility, more speed, more security, more availability, better schedules, and more control. Just as the President of the United States does!

    But it was the President of the United States who denigrated personal aviation in his address to Congress this week, as so many politicians have been doing lately. No one wants, as you said in your speech, "CEOs to use taxpayer money to … disappear on a private jet," but is anyone really doing that -- disappearing? What if the CEOs, when they get on that jet, are actually increasing sales, making investments, evaluating major projects, delivering speeches, building morale, motivating their troops, making new loans, expanding plants, exploring new markets, finding new resources, beating competitors, attracting investors, and saving their company? Are they allowed to do that – because most of the time that's what they're doing!
    ....

    Respectfully,


    James K. Coyne
    President
    National Air Transportation Association
    ....and keeping thousands of Americans well employed making, supporting and flying those birds.
    Last edited by AeroSim; 03-06-2009 at 02:14 PM.

  7. #2947
    Joined
    May 2002
    Location
    Twain Harte, CA
    Posts
    17,095

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal View Post
    And yes. I am that old. Im coming up on 62 in the Fall.
    But still like a kid, talking about the NEXT birthday.

  8. #2948
    Joined
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    74,684

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Heh. And Im still a weasel at heart. I still think its funny to take the batteries out of the remotes others use so I can make them think they did something wrong. I havent forgotten all those position games that I learned!

  9. #2949
    Joined
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    74,684

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Did Obama just speak on the tube? Or is this a response to the WH calling on twitter for advice?

    6,488.51 -105.93 / -1.61%
    Mar 6 2:52pm ET †


    Not to worry. Were covered

    http://twitter.com/jimzinsocal
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 03-06-2009 at 03:00 PM.

  10. #2950
    Joined
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    74,684

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Now look at the timestamp. Watch the buyers

  11. #2951
    Joined
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    74,684

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Modest gain for the day. Never fall for this crap

    Stock losses accelerate
    3:16pm: Wall Street retreats, with the Dow and S&P 500 hitting fresh 12-year lows. More

  12. #2952
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    24,202

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    ^^^



    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  13. #2953
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    West Richland, WA
    Posts
    6,397

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    But still like a kid, talking about the NEXT birthday.
    really old people do that too.
    Brian

  14. #2954
    Joined
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    74,684

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Yeah. Its something the casual investor has to guard against: The herd mentality. If you are gonna sell? Sell rationally. Never from a 3:16 PM article
    that suggests the world is ending at 4:03.
    Watch this stuff and its a bit clearer.
    So today? In about a 20 minute time span?
    Everything changed.

    Not that things are great...but an up day is always better than a ride down the toilet.

  15. #2955
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Crazy AZ USA
    Posts
    3,516

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal View Post
    Yeah. Its something the casual investor has to guard against: The herd mentality. If you are gonna sell? Sell rationally. Never from a 3:16 PM article
    that suggests the world is ending at 4:03.
    Watch this stuff and its a bit clearer.
    So today? In about a 20 minute time span?
    Everything changed.

    Not that things are great...but an up day is always better than a ride down the toilet.
    Yep. Especially if you're a youngster, like jimz, you're MUCH better served by studying the companies and industries your stock is involved in and listening for news that can affect the business. And this is becoming more critical as mutuals and gamblers head past the exits. I don't think I would be as involved with econo-politics if it weren't that I have liquidity looking for a place at the right time. I'm not wired up well enough to play the casino with shorts, etc.- I'm better off in Vegas for that sh*t- so I'm looking for whoever can make it count when it looks like their stock is down for the count.

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