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  1. #31
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    Re: Very Disturbing

    Quote Originally Posted by BY97 View Post
    Since Bush became US President, gas prices have tripled. That's enough for me.
    Sounds like a KOS/DU "factoid" to me..... every researched bit on the price of gas I have read... adjusted for inflation.. shows we are not. But please do show how gas is 3x more expensive than it was in 2000.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  2. #32
    Joined
    Aug 2001
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    74,684

    Re: Very Disturbing

    From our friends at newsbusters a "flying pig" alert!!


    Flying Pigs at 'Today': Booming Economy Benefits Many Americans Lauer introduced a segment on the booming stock market by asking "is the rising tide lifting all boats?" I braced myself for another MSM excursion into class warfare. But surprise, surprise . . .
    CNBC's Erin Burnett narrated the segment, and her opening also made me figure we were in for more bash-the-rich rhetoric. "Another day, another record on Wall Street . . . As stocks rise, it is time to finally ask, who is really making all the money? Who are the winners of the global economic boom?"
    Cut to clips of the Dem presidential contenders, including Hillary offering up this bit of class warfare at its pandering worst: "while productivity and corporate profits are up, the fruits of that success just hasn't [sic] reached many of our families. It's like trickle-down economics but without the trickle."
    But then came the surprising shift of gears.
    CNBC'S ERIN BURNETT: But while the rich are getting richer, you may be too. Here's why: more than half of Americans are invested in the market, whether through a 401(k) plan or buying stocks or mutual funds, and many of those investments are surging. The Dow Jones Industrial Average is up 12% so far this year, and if your retirement plan invested in oil, that alone is up 21%. It's also worth noting that while politicians talk about "two Americas" [get ready to duck, John Edwards] virtually all Americans are seeing wages rise, and unemployment is at an historic low.
    Throwing things back to Matt, Erin took a shot at Hillary's complaint about the boom's failure to trickle down to workers.
    BURNETT: That's an interesting point indeed about wages. You know for a while, Matt, wage growth had lagged inflation for most Americans. Right now, though, that's not the case. Wages are growing more quickly than they have over the last few years.
    Burnett even let a dirty little secret about taxes out of the bag.
    BURNETT: You've been talking so much about whether the tide raises all boats. The issue of taxes is important here. The top 1% of Americans, Matt, pay 30% of taxes in this country. The bottom 20% of wage-earners pay only 5%. So while we do have a lot of income inequality, it is fair to say we still have one of the most progressive systems in the world.
    View video here.
    Was Matt stunned into silence? He offered only an "alright, Erin," before moving on.
    Note: Last week, I had written here about how Burnett, appearing on "Morning Joe," admitted to a schoolgirl crush on Dan Rather. She claimed that she had gotten over her infatuation. Looks like she wasn't kidding.
    Contact Mark at mark@gunhill.net

  3. #33
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    Re: Very Disturbing

    ^^^ Only took them what... 4 years to admit that the economy is on a tear...? Not bad by the MSM's standards...
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  4. #34
    Joined
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    Location
    Not the end of the world, But they sell pictures of it
    Posts
    6,430

    Re: Very Disturbing

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal View Post
    From our friends at newsbusters a "flying pig" alert!!


    Flying Pigs at 'Today': Booming Economy Benefits Many Americans Lauer introduced a segment on the booming stock market by asking "is the rising tide lifting all boats?" I braced myself for another MSM excursion into class warfare. But surprise, surprise . . .
    CNBC's Erin Burnett narrated the segment, and her opening also made me figure we were in for more bash-the-rich rhetoric. "Another day, another record on Wall Street . . . As stocks rise, it is time to finally ask, who is really making all the money? Who are the winners of the global economic boom?"
    Cut to clips of the Dem presidential contenders, including Hillary offering up this bit of class warfare at its pandering worst: "while productivity and corporate profits are up, the fruits of that success just hasn't [sic] reached many of our families. It's like trickle-down economics but without the trickle."
    But then came the surprising shift of gears.
    CNBC'S ERIN BURNETT: But while the rich are getting richer, you may be too. Here's why: more than half of Americans are invested in the market, whether through a 401(k) plan or buying stocks or mutual funds, and many of those investments are surging. The Dow Jones Industrial Average is up 12% so far this year, and if your retirement plan invested in oil, that alone is up 21%. It's also worth noting that while politicians talk about "two Americas" [get ready to duck, John Edwards] virtually all Americans are seeing wages rise, and unemployment is at an historic low.
    Throwing things back to Matt, Erin took a shot at Hillary's complaint about the boom's failure to trickle down to workers.
    BURNETT: That's an interesting point indeed about wages. You know for a while, Matt, wage growth had lagged inflation for most Americans. Right now, though, that's not the case. Wages are growing more quickly than they have over the last few years.
    Burnett even let a dirty little secret about taxes out of the bag.
    BURNETT: You've been talking so much about whether the tide raises all boats. The issue of taxes is important here. The top 1% of Americans, Matt, pay 30% of taxes in this country. The bottom 20% of wage-earners pay only 5%. So while we do have a lot of income inequality, it is fair to say we still have one of the most progressive systems in the world.
    View video here.
    Was Matt stunned into silence? He offered only an "alright, Erin," before moving on.
    Note: Last week, I had written here about how Burnett, appearing on "Morning Joe," admitted to a schoolgirl crush on Dan Rather. She claimed that she had gotten over her infatuation. Looks like she wasn't kidding.
    Contact Mark at mark@gunhill.net
    Sounds pretty rosey unless you are in the 50% that are not invested in stocks and while their wages may have grown some...they are paying more in gas prices and health insurance, etc. Wages for those people have still not caught up to the inflation. Also the higher paying jobs that have been lost were replaced by low wage jobs in the service industry.
    The Heat 99-0-0

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  5. #35
    Joined
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    California
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    Re: Very Disturbing

    Quote Originally Posted by Soundforbjt View Post
    Sounds pretty rosey unless you are in the 50% that are not invested in stocks and while their wages may have grown some...they are paying more in gas prices and health insurance, etc. Wages for those people have still not caught up to the inflation. Also the higher paying jobs that have been lost were replaced by low wage jobs in the service industry.
    ^^^ Seeing as the lower 50% pays virtually noting in federal taxes and uses the lions share of the social services MY taxes pay to keep afloat... ya.. feeling bad... not so much.

    Educate yourself and get a better job is my advise. Or to quote a great movie line "Learn to f*cking type"......
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  6. #36
    Joined
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    California
    Posts
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    Re: Very Disturbing

    Quote Originally Posted by BY97 View Post
    Since Bush became US President, gas prices have tripled. That's enough for me.
    Nope.. still not seeing this 300% increase you claim. Matter of fact, adjusted for inflation... I'm only seeing about a 51% increase.... since 1970.


    Historical Gasoline Pump Prices (USA) - Average, adjusted to 2006 dollars


    1970 $1.44
    1971 $1.43
    1972 $1.34
    1973 $1.40
    1974 $1.76
    1975 $1.79
    1976 $1.76
    1977 $1.75
    1978 $1.65
    1979 $2.09
    1980 $2.63
    1981 $2.64
    1982 $2.30
    1983 $1.98
    1984 $1.93
    1985 $1.85
    1986 $1.42
    1987 $1.40
    1988 $1.38
    1989 $1.43
    1990 $1.55
    1991 $1.58
    1992 $1.47
    1993 $1.60
    1994 $1.55
    1995 $1.55
    1996 $1.63
    1997 $1.62
    1998 $1.40
    1999 $1.61
    2000 $1.93
    2001 $1.85
    2002 $1.68
    2003 $1.99
    2004 $2.25
    2005 $2.24
    2006 $2.81
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  7. #37
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,761

    Re: Very Disturbing

    Ron Paul and I have the same concerns

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8pLp...elated&search=

  8. #38
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    Re: Very Disturbing

    Quote Originally Posted by falcon_view View Post
    Ron Paul and I have the same concerns

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8pLp...elated&search=
    Shared in part and explained by Ben.
    Dont misunderstand. Alot to like by Dr Paul.
    But my presonal opinion? Hes a tad over the edge with some economic conclusions/assumptions.
    Hes abit too mercantile for me.

    Edit: I forgot this blurb. It wont link but it goes to an earlier discussion we had

    Big homes, large loans raise rate of foreclosure NEW

  9. #39
    Joined
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    Posts
    74,684

    Re: Very Disturbing

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal View Post
    Shared in part and explained by Ben.
    Dont misunderstand. Alot to like by Dr Paul.
    But my presonal opinion? Hes a tad over the edge with some economic conclusions/assumptions.
    Hes abit too mercantile for me.

    Edit: I forgot this blurb. It wont link but it goes to an earlier discussion we had

    Big homes, large loans raise rate of foreclosure NEW
    Let me expand.
    We talked about the relationship way back bwtween savings and the current trade deficit.
    Did you take in that exchange in the linked video?
    Its exactly as I suggested early on in this thread.

    But take that notion apart. Save rather than spend on foreign goods.
    Which is the basic relationship [less corporate savings].
    What policies or conditions make one thing more attractive than the other?
    Think for a minute. Think about the underlying positive attitude that really
    is basic to the relationship.

    JimZ simple economics: Buy shit verses save.
    We need look no further than ourserlves.
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 07-21-2007 at 11:18 PM.

  10. #40
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    Aug 2001
    Posts
    74,684

    Re: Very Disturbing

    ^^I could make the arguement that the macro good might be served by buying cheap goods verses saving at a rate that is less than the relative attractiveness of domestic savings.

    Assuming

    Savings - Investment = Exports - Imports

    And Im not suggesting its sustainable over the long haul.

    Nor am I trying to oversimplify.
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 07-21-2007 at 11:36 PM.

  11. #41
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    1,761

  12. #42
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    Posts
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    Re: Very Disturbing

    Bill Gross. Im enjoying all this Falcon. I am. But careful who you attribute "insight" to. Particularly Gross.

    http://www.ocbj.com/industry_article...72&aID2=115802

    I remember his joint from Newport Beach. Also? I recall all this

    In November 2001 Gross defaulted on a $50 million personal loan he had taken from the Bank of America. In March 2006 the board of directors of Idealab voted to pay off the loan, protecting Gross from bankruptcy. Gross's efforts to use Idealab to bail out his personal finances were the subject of a minority shareholder lawsuit filed in 2002, which was eventually settled.[1] Court documents filed by the plaintiffs allege that the funds were used in part to finance Gross's purchase of a Gulfstream personal jet.[2]


    Not saying he wrong. But ya really gotta sift thru all these guys and scrape of the self serving angle.
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 07-27-2007 at 09:31 PM.

  13. #43
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,761

    Re: Very Disturbing

    This is what you have to look out for---from your link.

    -----Gross often is credited with the ability to move markets with his words. He also has a reputation for quickly changing his mind in lieu of new data.


    We're not heading towards a recession. There's nothing wrong so I'm not a buyer or seller at this point but I'm not a panic seller," said Gross.--------


    Don't you think that Gross would make his move before telling anyone else about it. Those in this position will pump after they have already made their move then dump while the rest are still buying. Then comes a change in direction.

  14. #44
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,761

    Re: Very Disturbing

    How is your pension fund? They have spread the risk around so you take the hit also.

    Without the agencies' (Moody's Investors Service (MCO), Fitch Ratings, and Standard & Poor's) stamp of approval, many big investors like pension funds and university endowments wouldn't be allowed to buy CDOs. The market, for all practical purposes, wouldn't exist.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19995684/

  15. #45
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    5,171

    Re: Very Disturbing

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    ^^^ Seeing as the lower 50% pays virtually noting in federal taxes and uses the lions share of the social services MY taxes pay to keep afloat... ya.. feeling bad... not so much.

    Educate yourself and get a better job is my advise. Or to quote a great movie line "Learn to f*cking type"......
    virtually nothing to who? $2000 in taxes for a person making $20,000 a year is a lot.


    also, i must note, that if the rich didn't charge so much for things like health care and gas, and if they paid workers what they deserve to be paid then we'd have no need for these social services. i really can't understand why some CEO deserves $300,000,000 in retirement while other people don't even get a retirement even when they were guaranteed one... and i don't understand why the people at the bottom should be paid so little as they are for their labor... after all... without that labor those rich people wouldn't be rich at all... seeing as the poor are so generous as to work for almost nothing in comparison to what the rich make, i think the rich owe the poor quite a bit for thier kindness.

    also, doesn't the top 1% own like %60 of everything in this country? of course... that's okay because they trully are just THAT damn special, eh.

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