Economic News/Discussion

[BlackDragon24]

You're right in saying that Obamacare didn't cause this mess, but it sure as Hell is exacerbating the problem even more. I've always agreed with you BD on the big problem we as Americans face trying to compete for jobs from people in third world countries. If BO really does want these corporations to start hiring more Americans he needs to get to work on figuring out ways to make hiring Americans seem like a good idea again. Right now, I'm sorry to say you'd have to be crazy to hire an American when you can get the same thing done by outsourcing. This, pardon my French, is ••••••••. It should not be like this. Our leaders should be doing everything in their power to reverse this trend, but instead all they are doing is making the problem worse.

Well we're kinda screwed here.

We could start charging tariffs and eliminate some of these wacky trade agreements, but all that will do is send China's economy into the tank. China will come calling for their money, but we won't have it. Then what? Get your popcorn out, and maybe build a bunker

Its obvious that this is not going to go away unless we make some really painful cuts, and I think the really painful cuts should start in the places where it is going to cause the least pain. That's why dems go after revenues from the upper 1%. The bill Boehner is bringing to the floor is a ginormous middle finger to anyone in the bottom 25-50%.

[AMDScooter]

The bill Boehner is bringing to the floor is a ginormous middle finger to anyone in the bottom 25-50%.

Even if what you claim were true. What impact does a segment who makes no federal tax contribution at all have on the economy?

[kbohip]

Even if what you claim were true. What impact does a segment who makes no federal tax contribution at all have on the economy?

Lol, true.

[Dutchcedar]

The bill Boehner is bringing to the floor is a ginormous middle finger to anyone in the bottom 25-50%.

Sheet. It cuts a few hundred billion bucks during the next couple of years from the budget that has something like 7% growth built into it for every year.

Nothing's cut.

The rate of growth that's a bull in a china shop is held back with a piece of twine.

[otoc]

Even if what you claim were true. What impact does a segment who makes no federal tax contribution at all have on the economy?

Because income tax isn't the only tax people pay. Get real for a moment.

[AeroSim]

[otoc]

14th ammendment has already been reviewed by Obama. It is unproven, and will be looked at by SCOTUS in the context of why it was written. Whether or not it actually applies has no precendence. Only opinion.

Won't printing money cause inflation? How does printing money as an alternative to authorization for going over the debt limit allow Treasury to pay the bills?

Seems like this guy is spending more time talking about changing the system than talking about the current issue. Including a free pass to the 14th ammendment.

Edit: oh my, I just heard his close. "Do not raise the debt ceiling. Yes the bankers will crash the stock market. But that won't last forever, whereas their debtmoney system will last forever otherwise"...now I know I can't listen to this guy again. Seems to me, I've seen the government deal with reducing the federal debt before. Now that wasn't forever, but it wasn't never.

[Dutchcedar]

Quarterly GDP since Pres. Obama took office.

2009 2nd Qtr:.....-.7%
2009 3rd Qtr:.....1.7%
2009 4th Qtr:.....3.8%
2010 1st Qtr:.....3.9% (Obamacare passed March 2010)
2010 2nd Qtr:.....3.8%
2010 3rd Qtr:.....2.5%
2010 4th Qtr:.....2.3%
2011 1st Qtr:.....0.4%
2011 2nd Qtr:.....1.3% (not adjusted yet... if previous adjustments are similar... oops)

The conventional wisdom is that it takes at least 2.5% GDP growth to lower unemployment numbers.
For comparison, here are annual numbers from the Carter years

1977....4.6
1978....5.6
1979....3.1
1980...-0.3

h/t Ace

[tucker]

^^^ Hmmmm... Obambi really is Jimmy Carter on steroids...

[otoc]

Quarterly GDP since Pres. Obama took office.

2009 2nd Qtr:.....-.7%
2009 3rd Qtr:.....1.7%
2009 4th Qtr:.....3.8%
2010 1st Qtr:.....3.9% (Obamacare passed March 2010)
2010 2nd Qtr:.....3.8%
2010 3rd Qtr:.....2.5%
2010 4th Qtr:.....2.3%
2011 1st Qtr:.....0.4%
2011 2nd Qtr:.....1.3% (not adjusted yet... if previous adjustments are similar... oops)

The conventional wisdom is that it takes at least 2.5% GDP growth to lower unemployment numbers.
For comparison, here are annual numbers from the Carter years

1977....4.6
1978....5.6
1979....3.1
1980...-0.3

h/t Ace

hmm. GDP Growth

If you are using "conventional wisdom" then compare reasons for recessions/employment and try noting the stimulus bill that "did nothing" on that list. lol, more empirical "proof" about birthercare or just a subliminal message? And the annual GDP growth for the Carter years in that comparison? Thanks Ace...

GDP

Unemployment


And while we're at it...

[Dutchcedar]

If you are using "conventional wisdom" then compare reasons for recessions/employment and try noting the stimulus bill that "did nothing" on that list. lol, more empirical "proof" about birthercare or just a subliminal message?

Yes, we all see how spending a trillion dollars we don't have made a chart look good until the money ran out. Duh. Noone claims it "did nothing", otoc. I think you call that a strawman. People do say it caused no long term positive effect other than increasing the debt and golly geez, shabang, that's EXACTLY what happened.

Those charts you posted make your Obambi character look like an idiot.

[AMDScooter]

Because income tax isn't the only tax people pay. Get real for a moment.

I cited one example. I'd be willing to bet most of that 50% gets a good portion if not all of their state taxes back as well. So, getting real as you request. What are we left with for that 50%? The same argument libberals use for illegals living here? That they still pay sales tax? The bottom line is they reap all the benefit while having next to no skin in the game at all. My question stands.. what impact do they have on the economy?

[AMDScooter]

Yes, we all see how spending a trillion dollars we don't have made a chart look good until the money ran out. Duh. Noone claims it "did nothing", otoc. I think you call that a strawman. People do say it caused no long term positive effect other than increasing the debt and golly geez, shabang, that's EXACTLY what happened.

Those charts you posted make your Obambi character look like an idiot.

But anything that doesn't show the Carter years really shows how Obambi and Carter are similar... wait... no it wouldn't... ah, I get it... SUBJECT CHANGE!!!

Smooth.

It'll be interesting to see the libberal charts after the repuggies take the Senate and HW in 2012. My guess.. history will then have started in ... 2012.

[otoc]

Yes, we all see how spending a trillion dollars we don't have made a chart look good until the money ran out. Duh. Noone claims it "did nothing", otoc. I think you call that a strawman. People do say it caused no long term positive effect other than increasing the debt and golly geez, shabang, that's EXACTLY what happened.

Those charts you posted make your Obambi character look like an idiot.

Dutch, Ace put Obamacare on there and didn't put the stimulus. Don't try to turn this on me with with your sniping. I didn't say a word towards you. Grow some skin. So why was Obamacare listed?

And oh look, the 2.5% is whose "conventional wisdom"? I keep missing that.

And sure, the Obamanots all say the stimulus wasn't long term. So did Obama. It was a fix for something far worse that he inherited. I swear, we should have let your team take the fall. Depression. I'd say that would have stopped all this whining and wishing for a fail, but all it would have done is given you something else to whine about. That he didn't do anything.

Let me tell you what those charts show to me, Ace is off. The GOP has found something new to make their own, there is no ownership for what GOP policies gave us, no admission of how bad a situation was, and that it takes a long term look at trends to build a theory as opposed to the short term of two years.

The last time I looked, Obama was our president, and when the election comes, I'll make a decision. I know that's hard for you to understand considering you've been knocking him since before he got into office.

[otoc]

It'll be interesting to see the libberal charts after the repuggies take the Senate and HW in 2012. My guess.. history will then have started in ... 2012.

bookmarked....