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  1. #10381
    Joined
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    A Little South of Sanity
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    12,925

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    If it ripples beyond Greece it'll be a bad deal for all.

  2. #10382
    Joined
    Sep 2012
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    1,097

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Greece voted to default-
    http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/30/news...e-imf-default/
    In a dramatic but widely expected step, Greece formally defaulted on a $1.7 billion payment to the International Monetary Fund early Wednesday in Athens.

    Greece became the first developed country to default to the IMF, an organization of 188 nations that tries to keep the world economy stable.

    Greece will now be cut off from access to IMF resources until the payment is made.
    But Tsipras- the Prime Minister who won on a landslide to end bailouts- pulls an Obama out of his hat:
    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...ity_terms.html
    Greek Prime Minister Alex Tsipras is now officially a clown and the Greek government is officially a laughingstock.

    Tsipras, who breathed fire and brimstone in the days leading up to today's Greek default on its IMF loans, swearing that he would never accept the terms being offered by the nation's creditors, saying it would be a humiliation and a blow to Greek pride, sent a letter to the EU on Tuesday night accepting virtually all of the creditor demands and asking for another $32 billion in loans.
    A couple of ironies here- I knew about this, but MSM is hardly saying a peep- and I had to find this on the Alternative media. That's because ....

    ..... the US Markets cheers on their misery
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-stoc...sal-1435753772
    U.S. stock futures advanced Wednesday after Greece sent a fresh bailout proposal to its creditors, fueling hopes of a deal being reached.
    I've seen a lot of games out there- insurance policies, securities, gold. The bankers are manipulating the markets to make it all worth what they want because they (the top 6) have quadrupled their reserves with with QE from the Federal Reserve. I.e., they can get all the money they want 24/7 to rig whatever they want 24/7. So if they want to make bailouts look good- they can. Once upon a time, investors would be fleeing from the Greek trade. But this isn't about investment any more. Its' about CONTROL.

    You know, this reminds me of John McCain running to the White House in 2008 with balls a-clickin' on how he was going to end the banker bailout nonsense ... then coming back out the door wearing his ass for a hat saying he supported the measure.

    And you think El Presidente Obama represents you "folk"? After he wends through secret trade deals and now is issuing secret executive orders? How much do you want to bet that if it were him, he wouldn't also float you down the river to sell bankers butt kisses? Well, he has- it's just that he hasn't publicly begged yet.
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...-law/29235675/
    WASHINGTON — A one-digit correction to President Obama's directive on hostage policy Wednesday had the effect of disclosing the existence of a previously unknown — and still-secret — Obama order on national security.

    The hostage policy was originally released Wednesday as a presidential policy directive numbered PPD-29. When the White House corrected that number to PPD-30, it meant Obama had issued a secret directive as PPD-29 sometime in the past 17 months.

    Obama signed PPD-28, an order on electronic eavesdropping in the wake of revelations by Edward Snowden, in January 2014.
    Understand this very well: This government is not ours. We have failed as a country to get rid of this president, his administration and this system. On the grounds of being "politically correct". Well, it's getting to be time for our economy to "pay" for it.
    Last edited by Skennar; 07-01-2015 at 10:30 AM.
    American Public Education Made Me Ignorant and MSM Keeps Me Stupid.

  3. #10383
    Joined
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    12,925

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Another economy in the crapper.

  4. #10384
    Joined
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,097

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    I've been watching this one for a little while. It would take too long for me to explain the internals of what is going on- but the basics say that there are at least two sides to EVERY trade. While we are focusing on the obvious, the question is what is going on with the other side?
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0PF0DH20150705
    China's stock markets face a make-or-break week after officials rolled out an unprecedented series of steps at the weekend to prevent a full-blown stock market crash that would threaten the world's second-largest economy.

    The government is anxiously awaiting the market opening on Monday to see if the new measures will halt a 30 percent plunge in the last three weeks, or if panicky investors who borrowed heavily to speculate on stocks will continue to sell.

    In an extraordinary weekend of policy moves, brokerages and fund managers vowed to buy massive amounts of stocks, helped by China's state-backed margin finance company which in turn would be aided by a direct line of liquidity from the central bank.
    I'm going to suggest the following:

    Foreign countries are selling their assets (stocks) to pay for shortfalls in their own economies. Moreover, people that abandon stocks usually run to bonds, currencies or another exchange. There is a lot of cash going .....

    Unfortunately the state is involved and wants to control the situation with the central bank. Otherwise, this would bee a good opportunity for them to recognized that many gamblers and weak players are heading for the exits and that their own people could be turned on to run their own market. China needs to let go of the debt poison they are tempting. They, of all countries, wouldn't need it with a freed society. I could tell you tons of stories about Chengdu, Xian, Beijing and Shanghai- but there is something going on there there that reminds me more of America ... once upon a time. If ....
    American Public Education Made Me Ignorant and MSM Keeps Me Stupid.

  5. #10385
    Joined
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    1,097

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    ^^^ This is why you never trust government to run a market with a central bank- a hyper-inflation scenario is setting up here. The key thing to note that markets crash because gamblers to investors are panicking. Smart investors are calmly waiting for it to bottom. A panicking government trying to "fix" it can create a hyper inflation scenario- much like Germany 1923 (I'm the uhhhh proud owner of some of those Reich marks thanks to my mother). Regardless, a smart government doesn't panic and waits to see who needs help with asset auctioning when the dust settles. Maybe arrest a couple of fraudsters while they're at it.

    http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/07/inve...hanghai-crash/
    China stocks plunged again on Wednesday, even as regulators worked to contain a crisis that has wiped trillions of dollars off the country's stock markets.

    The Shanghai Composite plunged 8% at the market open on Wednesday, and spent the entire day in negative territory before closing down 5.9%. The vast majority of stocks listed on the benchmark index shed 10%, the maximum limit shares are allowed to fall before being halted.

    The smaller Shenzhen Composite lost 2.5%, while Hong Kong's Hang Seng dropped 5.8%.

    "At the moment there is a mood of panic in the market and a large increase in irrational dumping of shares, causing a strain of liquidity in the stock market," China Securities Regulatory Commission said in statement.

    Since June 12, the Shanghai Composite has lost an unnerving 32%. The Shenzhen market, which has more tech companies and is often compared to America's Nasdaq index, is down 41% over the same period.

    The government is now doing everything it can to rescue the markets. The People's Bank of China has cut interest rates to a record low, brokerages have committed to buy billions worth of stocks, and regulators have announced a de-facto suspension of new IPOs.
    Generally, this should be a good opportunity to pick up valuable assets at bargain prices.

    However, MOST of China's wealth was purchased and paid for with western investment capital and the only opportunists that may fill the void could be the likes of Goldman Sachs.

    Let's hope China has more proverbial wisdom than that.
    American Public Education Made Me Ignorant and MSM Keeps Me Stupid.

  6. #10386
    Joined
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    1,097

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    I'm just going to give an observation and you do what you will with it-

    China is a huge consumer of oil. Slow down China with the current crash and well ... I'm just going to spell it out: there will be yet MORE supply of oil because production sputters in such a climate.

    The US economy is sputtering for yet another, related reason. The Labor force participation rate has declined to new lows yet again- stating that nearly 4 out of 10 able Americans are not working and need to eat anyhow. The last time we saw numbers like this was when "Staying Alive" was at the top of the pop charts.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/labor...ear-low-2015-7
    The June US jobs report is out, and while the unemployment rate is down, part of the fall in unemployment came from a 0.3 percentage point drop in the labor force participation rate to 62.6%, the lowest rate since October 1977. Americans are considered to be in the labor force by the Bureau of Labor Statistics if they are employed or actively looking for work.
    With the compounding stagnation in wages in an inflationary environment (like stagflation), people aren't buying Chinese electronics or Japanese cars as much. Because they are tapped out and can no longer afford it. The American economy is dying. Staying Alive is not just a song, but becoming an operative term.

    So now you have a failing demand .... Well, my advice- trade wisely.

    That said, you really trust this government and system to create a trade agreement that will write your rules for you? They are already writing laws that will force you and your children to be vaccinated at big Pharma's "request" and yet also somehow cobbled together even more legislation that doesn't hold them liable for any "mishap" because of it. Now you have acceptable slave practices entering into this. I have a quote for you: What you find acceptable for others will soon be applicable to you.

    No, this TPP (et al) trade agreement is not to prevent a collapsing global economy- it is there to EXPLOIT it.
    Last edited by Skennar; 07-08-2015 at 01:16 PM.
    American Public Education Made Me Ignorant and MSM Keeps Me Stupid.

  7. #10387
    Joined
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    Colorafornia, USSA
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    13,825

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    The stock market gets closed down for hours. United Airlines grounds all planes. WSJ goes down too. It definitely was not Chinese hackers though.

    http://map.norsecorp.com/
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

    Edmund Burke

    RIP PCPER TLR
    7-14-19

  8. #10388
    Joined
    May 2002
    Location
    Twain Harte, CA
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    20,453

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Maybe I'm missing something here on China's "stock plunge". It dropped thirty percent in three weeks, but its now where it was in March, just three months ago, and about where it averaged to be over the last year.

    We know Chinese stuff didn't magically go up ten percent in value every month, so why the big shock and awe when it goes back down?

    Isn't that what one could expect in a casino?

  9. #10389
    Joined
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    20,453

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by kbohip View Post
    The stock market gets closed down for hours. United Airlines grounds all planes. WSJ goes down too. It definitely was not Chinese hackers though.

    http://map.norsecorp.com/
    WTF is in St. Louis?

  10. #10390
    Joined
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,097

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    Maybe I'm missing something here on China's "stock plunge". It dropped thirty percent in three weeks, but its now where it was in March, just three months ago, and about where it averaged to be over the last year.

    We know Chinese stuff didn't magically go up ten percent in value every month, so why the big shock and awe when it goes back down?

    Isn't that what one could expect in a casino?
    Yep, there are artificial bubbles in China- someone pumped up their stock. There maybe some investment or "safe haven" buying, but the attacks kbohip is referring to is not a one-way street and may not be a group of government funded hackers. Chinese REITs are also funny because there are relatively only a few who can really afford the property.

    I'm not sure, but I think western banks are also manipulating their market. This could be a consequence of pegging their yuan. So you buy a trillion and then short it- and the Fed covers with QE pumped reserves. Basically, you're trying to move the Chinese into your camp. Create a crisis and be part of the rescue team- just to show them what you can do.

    Just a thought, but I wouldn't put it past these basstards.

    Now, if they completely unpeg ....
    Last edited by Skennar; 07-09-2015 at 10:03 AM.
    American Public Education Made Me Ignorant and MSM Keeps Me Stupid.

  11. #10391
    Joined
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,097

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    WTF is in St. Louis?
    Payback for hacking the Astros.

    But actually, there are network backbones across the country in key locations. I think there is one in St Louis, but trust me- they don't advertise them. They're probably trying to exploit one.
    American Public Education Made Me Ignorant and MSM Keeps Me Stupid.

  12. #10392
    Joined
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,097

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    The difference between us and them:

    Hang Seng goes up sharply, but Reuters doesn't say how or why.
    http://www.iol.co.za/business/intern...ises-1.1882722

    Zero hedge says the same thing with a twist that Reuters did not report- it's pretty funny
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...l-stocks-surge
    China Soars Most Since 2009 After Government Threatens Short Sellers With Arrest, Global Stocks Surge

    Here is a brief sample of some of the measures the Chinese government and the PBOC have unleashed in just the past ten days to prop up the crashing market include:

    a ban on major shareholders, corporate executives, directors from selling stock for 6 months
    freezing more than half (1400 at last count per Bloomberg) of the listed companies from trading,
    blocking fund redemptions, forcing companies to invest in the market,
    halting IPOs,
    reducing equity transaction fees,
    providing daily bailouts to the margin lending authority,
    reducing margin requirements,
    boosting buybacks
    endless propaganda by Beijing Bob.
    Geee, if our government would just make an arrest (and fire Washington BOb).
    Last edited by Skennar; 07-09-2015 at 12:07 PM. Reason: BObama
    American Public Education Made Me Ignorant and MSM Keeps Me Stupid.

  13. #10393
    Joined
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,097

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/102789598

    FYI - Aircraft groundings not related to cyber attack or NYSE issue. I'm not surprised- IT services are ... interesting ... in many companies.
    American Public Education Made Me Ignorant and MSM Keeps Me Stupid.

  14. #10394
    Joined
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,097

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    In order to explain the Chinese market, this article is not too bad:

    http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...-stock-losses/
    The key to this (as well as just about anything in China) is what the state does. And that is also what is wrong.

    The state needs to be involved to give the markets sanity and give the people justice. Banning shorts works. However it is something they need to make law and not a matter of state whim. Shorts simply completes the circle that prevents companies from rising or falling on their own merits and geometrically complicates the problem of fraud enforcement.

    But having the state manipulate the markets with the currency doesn't work. It prohibits and prevents true price discovery (as in company valuation) in the same manner banks do. And that's why I think state committees and corporate (essentially banking) congresses anymore are two forms of the same monster. Only the name has changed as to who controls who lives or dies in that market. Big money tends to command corruption.

    If you want to see how your markets may soon work- watch this one. When these collectivist systems run out of everyone else's money ....

    The Chinese state currently seems to be running with some concern for its population, but the question you need to ask is if they are willing to to turn over their jobs to RESPONSIBLE free citizens in general private-ballot elections?

    Good luck with that one ....
    Last edited by Skennar; 07-10-2015 at 10:54 AM.
    American Public Education Made Me Ignorant and MSM Keeps Me Stupid.

  15. #10395
    Joined
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    433

    Re: Economic News/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Skennar View Post
    I'm just going to give an observation and you do what you will with it-

    China is a huge consumer of oil. Slow down China with the current crash and well ... I'm just going to spell it out: there will be yet MORE supply of oil because production sputters in such a climate.

    The US economy is sputtering for yet another, related reason. The Labor force participation rate has declined to new lows yet again- stating that nearly 4 out of 10 able Americans are not working and need to eat anyhow. The last time we saw numbers like this was when "Staying Alive" was at the top of the pop charts.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/labor...ear-low-2015-7


    With the compounding stagnation in wages in an inflationary environment (like stagflation), people aren't buying Chinese electronics or Japanese cars as much. Because they are tapped out and can no longer afford it. The American economy is dying. Staying Alive is not just a song, but becoming an operative term.

    So now you have a failing demand .... Well, my advice- trade wisely.

    That said, you really trust this government and system to create a trade agreement that will write your rules for you? They are already writing laws that will force you and your children to be vaccinated at big Pharma's "request" and yet also somehow cobbled together even more legislation that doesn't hold them liable for any "mishap" because of it. Now you have acceptable slave practices entering into this. I have a quote for you: What you find acceptable for others will soon be applicable to you.

    No, this TPP (et al) trade agreement is not to prevent a collapsing global economy- it is there to EXPLOIT it.
    I am going to try to take on each point you made and try to explain it further.

    Yes China is a huge consumer of oil and will continue to do so as it's economy expands, thus the reason of the tensions in trying to lockup oil producing countries to favor ones that can lockup the oil supply. China is still growing but not as fast and there may be time when there is negative growth. The only reason for the fast growth is cheap labor that hurts labor in other countries that have a higher standard of living or in wages. China labor as everyone should know has and will continue to replace labor in other countries until things equal out. There will be a lot of pain in countries where cost of labor is more than in China and other countries not only in income but in tax collection also. This is a bottom up or middle up problem that pushes middle income down. The bottom can't get jobs that pay a living income. Getting an education for higher income would help to a point when there are no more jobs to be had with an education. Another problem with older people with a education they have been laid off for younger cheaper labor while the younger has a huge amount of debt to pay off for the education and are not contributing to the economy as much as the older workers were. Back to oil here in the USA. Consumption of fuel has went down per person due to higher fuel mileage autos and less miles one drives. When it comes to pollution I seen a article that stated electric autos cause more pollution than autos that use petroleum products. These was due to coal fired electric plants and the pollution they produce, but in the comments a point was made that the author failed to make was the pollution produced refining of oil and all the pollution associated with oil. That was a bit of a side track but I would like to continue on a little more where it come to electric and fossil fuel autos. If there was a fast shift to electric auto this would kill a lot of job that the electric auto couldn't replace. Think of all the labor that is needed to build and maintain the internal combustion engine vs a electric motor. This is another problem as production increases with technology that puts more strain on labor that isn't replaced with education that leads to same or higher incomes. All the trade agreement that have been made and the TTP is to exploit cheaper labor in other countries while as the expense of labor in the USA. Sure there has been and will be some exports to those other countries but look at the lop sided trade with China vs the USA and how many dollars China stacked up and not purchasing products from the USA. Yes China bought a lot of our debt (US bonds) but some to a lot of the debt was and is contributed to less taxes per income paid per persons here in the USA. Before someone jumps on me about wealth distribution when it comes to welfare which I am not going to deny but something to think about. Those people on welfare do contribute to the economy as to the local grocery store and many others businesses and where those stores get their produces that leads to employment. We need more jobs and jobs that pay better to get a lot of people off welfare in the lower incomes. To explain that a little further, what happens when there is a down turn in the economy. People that still have good incomes spend less which makes the matters worse with economic conditions. Do I trust the government to look after my interests as a middle income person? No. Why? Because government is controlled those behind the curtain with big bucks (campaign contribution). Just look at who the advisers are in any administration. Those contributors and advisers are going to look after their own interests and the people they are close to and this extend to congress as well. There is no way I can compete with their money as the way the game is rigged today. You say I have a vote. Yes I do but, the way it is if a candidate isn't in the pocket of big money that candidate is going nowhere, thus I only get to vote for the least unfavorable candidate (to me) that MIGHT represent little me in some way. What I have said is you can't have your cake and eat it too.

    I know there is or should be some grammar mistakes but I am too lazy to go back and correct them so please forgive me.
    Last edited by Clearwater; 07-13-2015 at 02:49 PM.

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